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Let Them ... Drink Milk
Let Them ... Drink Milk
The first 'award' for FO3?
I suspect a gratuitous tone in the inclusion of potential, chronologically profiled, or innocent, targets in computer games. In particular any , once and future, FO title.
If I was to wish in one hand ...
I might assume this moral tickling to be of a morbid, or gallows. variety of humor, potentially welling from the true grit of, (de facto) adult life experience.
I might assume this 'real life' inclusion of children and innocent civilians as potential bullet back stops would be linked to the 'real life' consequences that would impact the game world, beyond the body count of experience point harvesting.
Yet,
Computer game makers such as Bethesda proudly proclaim their shift in marketing focus from adolescent nirvanas of sex and violence, and a forward (?) march to pre-teen. chocolate milk utopias.
Game world, AND real world (tm), consequences for gratuitous murder, OR accidental collateral casualties , may cancel each other out.
Real world mass marketing priorities may limit the murder and mayhem to traditional rpg monsters like rats and muties. Non human fodder will keep that 'PC' fig leaf of age appropriate certification.
If Oblivion's world renown leveling issues are testament of skill and intent, the actual programing of ""last reel morality''", may be beyond any Bethesda corporate effort. One: The consequences of killing innocents may be beyond the Bethesda gaming world view of 'freedom'.
Two: The consequences of killing innocents may be beyond the coding and bug checking abilities of game design by and for accountants.
The path of least resistance will encourage and justify the past and future Bethesda - Zenimax world view of soft ware fabrication and their marketing of entertainment
shelf shifting ingots and gaseous flap doggles.
If I was to wish in one hand ...
I might assume, more of the same compromised quality of product.
I might assume, more of the same hysterical hype in product presentation.
I might assume, more of the same co dependent gushings from those desperate for entertainment, the CHILDREN that Bethesda - Zenimax is targeting.
If I was to wish in one hand ...
What's the karmic impact of taking candy from babies?
4too
Let Them ... Drink Milk
The first 'award' for FO3?
I suspect a gratuitous tone in the inclusion of potential, chronologically profiled, or innocent, targets in computer games. In particular any , once and future, FO title.
If I was to wish in one hand ...
I might assume this moral tickling to be of a morbid, or gallows. variety of humor, potentially welling from the true grit of, (de facto) adult life experience.
I might assume this 'real life' inclusion of children and innocent civilians as potential bullet back stops would be linked to the 'real life' consequences that would impact the game world, beyond the body count of experience point harvesting.
Yet,
Computer game makers such as Bethesda proudly proclaim their shift in marketing focus from adolescent nirvanas of sex and violence, and a forward (?) march to pre-teen. chocolate milk utopias.
Game world, AND real world (tm), consequences for gratuitous murder, OR accidental collateral casualties , may cancel each other out.
Real world mass marketing priorities may limit the murder and mayhem to traditional rpg monsters like rats and muties. Non human fodder will keep that 'PC' fig leaf of age appropriate certification.
If Oblivion's world renown leveling issues are testament of skill and intent, the actual programing of ""last reel morality''", may be beyond any Bethesda corporate effort. One: The consequences of killing innocents may be beyond the Bethesda gaming world view of 'freedom'.
Two: The consequences of killing innocents may be beyond the coding and bug checking abilities of game design by and for accountants.
The path of least resistance will encourage and justify the past and future Bethesda - Zenimax world view of soft ware fabrication and their marketing of entertainment
shelf shifting ingots and gaseous flap doggles.
If I was to wish in one hand ...
I might assume, more of the same compromised quality of product.
I might assume, more of the same hysterical hype in product presentation.
I might assume, more of the same co dependent gushings from those desperate for entertainment, the CHILDREN that Bethesda - Zenimax is targeting.
If I was to wish in one hand ...
What's the karmic impact of taking candy from babies?
4too
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Re: Let Them ... Drink Milk
.
It seems that primitive barbarism and anti-life mentality will prevail against pure morality of true cRPGs4too said:
.mvBarracuda
Vault Dweller
Yes you're absolutely right. I remember this awful bloodbath game "Half Life" that was set on the index in Germany. A _real_ massacre game ...Claw said:
I dont get it.
If a company wants to make a game where you can kill or manipulate (a la Wright family) children whats to stop them?
Slap an 18 lable on it, with a big sticker saying "This game contains violent and sexual acts." (+1 sell point for younger audience)
Then if people dont want to buy it, they dont have to. People can bang the drum and say "We dont belive in this, we belive in that." and thats fine.
In my eyes you can believe what ever you want, thoughts are free. So long as you dont try and force YOUR beliefes on to me I dont mind.
Parents and mothers and christians and all sorts can beat on the doors of the store and say "We dont like this game." all they want in my eyes - No ones forcing them to buy it. And its labled and listed as a product suitable only for adults.
Imagine someone you dont know who is half your age trying to tell you what you can and cant do with your money and time. - I know what I would say.
If a company wants to make a game where you can kill or manipulate (a la Wright family) children whats to stop them?
Slap an 18 lable on it, with a big sticker saying "This game contains violent and sexual acts." (+1 sell point for younger audience)
Then if people dont want to buy it, they dont have to. People can bang the drum and say "We dont belive in this, we belive in that." and thats fine.
In my eyes you can believe what ever you want, thoughts are free. So long as you dont try and force YOUR beliefes on to me I dont mind.
Parents and mothers and christians and all sorts can beat on the doors of the store and say "We dont like this game." all they want in my eyes - No ones forcing them to buy it. And its labled and listed as a product suitable only for adults.
Imagine someone you dont know who is half your age trying to tell you what you can and cant do with your money and time. - I know what I would say.
Morbus
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I remember bioshock, and then I think Bethesda DON'T WANT the trouble to put childrens in. SPECIALLY when it's located in US.
lovely
Unfortunatly, that's not the world we live in. Earth is the planet where millions died because some sucker said "I believe in XPASFOPFADS god!" and the other asshole said "I believe in ASFAFAEGS god! You shall die!" And then everybody is happy because no one has sense enough to see what is rightful thought and what is plain belief. It's like: "I believe masturbation is a sin!" "I masturbate" "Die bastard! You ahve t believe in what i believe!" "Why?" "BECAUSE I SAY SO ANHD BECAUSE I'M T3H CENTERZOR OF T3H W0RLD!!1" *slams head*Tycell said:
lovely
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
It seems, that what we need is a second Israel - a gamer's state that is armed with nuclear weapons and ready to kill everyone who wants to destroy our culture.
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
No, I mean a state with freedom of speach, freedom of/from religion, etc. where games aren't censored and gamers aren't demonized. A state for all gamers would have to have means to defend itself - an army and nuclear weapons, so that no-one would dare to attack it.34P434 said:
Kick the jews out and make Israel the gamer state =P
Regarding kids in games -- I always enjoyed killing those runts in Tarsus Academy in Deus Ex: Invisible War, just to trigger the comm message asking me what the fuck is wrong with me. That was about how complex the whole Choice & Consequence deal ever got in that game, though.
I think game companies catch more flak in the US for showing violence against children than in countries where games are already being censored per law (yes, I know, the law doesn't censor my games, companies trying to comply with the law do, but economically black-mailing companies into self-censorship is not exactly morally superior to direct censorship).
IMO killing an adult is worse than killing the elderly or children in terms of consequences. Violence against weaker creatures is morally worse than violence against equals or superiors, though -- amazing that nobody seems to complain about killing low-level creeps being a moral outrage.
Regarding kids in games -- I always enjoyed killing those runts in Tarsus Academy in Deus Ex: Invisible War, just to trigger the comm message asking me what the fuck is wrong with me. That was about how complex the whole Choice & Consequence deal ever got in that game, though.
I think game companies catch more flak in the US for showing violence against children than in countries where games are already being censored per law (yes, I know, the law doesn't censor my games, companies trying to comply with the law do, but economically black-mailing companies into self-censorship is not exactly morally superior to direct censorship).
IMO killing an adult is worse than killing the elderly or children in terms of consequences. Violence against weaker creatures is morally worse than violence against equals or superiors, though -- amazing that nobody seems to complain about killing low-level creeps being a moral outrage.
I bet that if somone made a game that was totally not Politically Correct and had torturing children and burning whole villages down because "i felt like it" with masses of dirty sex and violence. The big taboo about it being "A wrong game!" "An Evil Game!" or whatever would break it at first - because no supplier would want to stock it in their shops for fear of retaliation. BUT, because the game was getting so much publicity it would sell like a $1 whore in a naval base.
I think companies are too scared to produce original concepts or to make XXXviolence games. They like it to go by the numbers - tried and tested and all that.
If you took the Postal 2 engine, gave it the fallout setting and added in children and perhaps a barter system... You know? It WOULD sell. People love that kind of stuff because of the fact a lot of people find it shocking or wrong. Its a massive un-used sell point IMO.
Of course you cant go too far... raping children and alike - no one would buy that game, the company would be shut down for breaking the law etc. But you can get away with it - Look at Mudoc in F2, you can rape the ranchers daughter (forget her name, shotgun wedding one). Although it doesnt say "HAHA I WILL NOW RAPE YOU, WOMAN!!" its pretty obvious thats what happens.
I think companies are too scared to produce original concepts or to make XXXviolence games. They like it to go by the numbers - tried and tested and all that.
If you took the Postal 2 engine, gave it the fallout setting and added in children and perhaps a barter system... You know? It WOULD sell. People love that kind of stuff because of the fact a lot of people find it shocking or wrong. Its a massive un-used sell point IMO.
Of course you cant go too far... raping children and alike - no one would buy that game, the company would be shut down for breaking the law etc. But you can get away with it - Look at Mudoc in F2, you can rape the ranchers daughter (forget her name, shotgun wedding one). Although it doesnt say "HAHA I WILL NOW RAPE YOU, WOMAN!!" its pretty obvious thats what happens.
*cough* Postal (2) *cough*Tycell said:
Not really, see GTA. The problem is more that it gives them a rating that will make the major retailers in the US not carry their game. It's a form of economical blackmail, really.Tycell said:
Angrim
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Tycell said:
Wha-wha-what?! You could *rape* Miria? My Chosen One has only seduced her to sleep with him/her...
I believe that if you're too ugly or fail a check, you both strip down and the father comes storming in to save his daughter.Angrim said:
I remember a little game called Hitman: Blood Money (made, btw, by Danish IO interactive)
where you go to the this (closed) Carnival ground and ---- do your thing.
In that game, you're able to kill children
.
Sorry, but you are. As part of your mission you are to kill (some children) or a child which is masquerading as front for someone else.
(I think). Maybe for that reason (and other reasons, the game got an 18+ rating from
pegi info board (which is similar to the ESRB
in the US/North America).
In either IWD or one of the BG games, you can kill children, if you so want. And in the movie Star WARS, episode 3, Anakin --- well let's just say, we don't se anything, but footage later shown clearly depicts what has happened.
If such a scene were written into a game, given the player the choice to either let the
children live or to kill them, people (maybe mostly in the US) would be in uproar over this.
The point is this: you can make any game you want. You might have trouble finding a publisher or getting people to buy it.
Nearly all stores which has games in Europe and in Denmark (where I live) will carry any rated game, from the E games over the 7+ games to the 18+ games, like Condemned.
I believe it is only in the US (and maybe in some other places) that stores such a Wal-Mart will not carry games rated M or Adult
Only.
However, then you are free to go to Best Buy or or EB Games to get them or to buy them on
the internet.
where you go to the this (closed) Carnival ground and ---- do your thing.
In that game, you're able to kill children
. Sorry, but you are. As part of your mission you are to kill (some children) or a child which is masquerading as front for someone else.
(I think). Maybe for that reason (and other reasons, the game got an 18+ rating from
pegi info board (which is similar to the ESRB
in the US/North America).
In either IWD or one of the BG games, you can kill children, if you so want. And in the movie Star WARS, episode 3, Anakin --- well let's just say, we don't se anything, but footage later shown clearly depicts what has happened.
If such a scene were written into a game, given the player the choice to either let the
children live or to kill them, people (maybe mostly in the US) would be in uproar over this.
The point is this: you can make any game you want. You might have trouble finding a publisher or getting people to buy it.
Nearly all stores which has games in Europe and in Denmark (where I live) will carry any rated game, from the E games over the 7+ games to the 18+ games, like Condemned.
I believe it is only in the US (and maybe in some other places) that stores such a Wal-Mart will not carry games rated M or Adult
Only.
However, then you are free to go to Best Buy or or EB Games to get them or to buy them on
the internet.
Morbus
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
As I said, Bethesda simple DOESN'T WANT to go through the trouble of making a decent game. Bioshock will let you kill little girls too, i think...aries369 said:I remember a little game called Hitman: Blood Money (made, btw, by Danish IO interactive)
where you go to the this (closed) Carnival ground and ---- do your thing.
In that game, you're able to kill children
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
It's okay, it's just a game. Just a game.aries369 said:In that game, you're able to kill children
Morbus
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
What's that supposed to mean?Sorrow said:It's okay, it's just a game. Just a game.aries369 said:In that game, you're able to kill children
Melanthius
First time out of the vault
I've always been perplexed by the moral outrage expressed at the re-arrangement of 1's and 0's so that the line of code that once represented a "Live Thing" now represents a "Dead Thing".
Even more perplexing to me is the theory that moving about 1's & 0's in a fantasy type setting will immediately translate into a rash of killing sprees here in the real world.
I'm not a historian, but I seem to recall hearing that the Dark Ages was a rather brutal and violent time in human history; they must have been playing some pretty wicked-evil video games back then.
More like +10, remember back in the 80's how much faster albums sold once Mrs. Gore's PMRC lable (Parental Advisory) was put on the cover? A "negative" ESRB rating may put off retailers, but it does very little to deter a curious gamer.
Hey, do we still have a PMRC? They've been pretty quiet for a long time now.
Even more perplexing to me is the theory that moving about 1's & 0's in a fantasy type setting will immediately translate into a rash of killing sprees here in the real world.
I'm not a historian, but I seem to recall hearing that the Dark Ages was a rather brutal and violent time in human history; they must have been playing some pretty wicked-evil video games back then.
Tycell said:
More like +10, remember back in the 80's how much faster albums sold once Mrs. Gore's PMRC lable (Parental Advisory) was put on the cover? A "negative" ESRB rating may put off retailers, but it does very little to deter a curious gamer.
Hey, do we still have a PMRC? They've been pretty quiet for a long time now.