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Genoq said:
I do. I want there game to fail so bad...
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In that case, you win the prize for cutting off your nose to spite your face...

whirlingdervish said:
At least if he wishes it sucks and it ends up sucking he'll get the benefit of feeling right about something.
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Great, I hope he enjoys that warm, fuzzy feeling.

whirlingdervish said:
If he wants it to be great and it ends up sucking he gets nothing at all.
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Other than disappointment, he gets the satisfaction of not being the kind of intellectual pervert who would rather something be bloody awful so that he can have a lovely fulfilling sense of schadenfreude at the fate of the creators of that abomination, than be good, so that he can have a nice, shiny, new sequel in one of greatest gaming series ever.

You see, the overarching point of what I was saying was that we'd all really rather have a good Fallout 3, than the opportunity to wank over Bethesda's rotting corpse, spitting incoherent rage about it being not funny anymore, is it bitch?...

Do you see? I wasn't asking the man to bet money on what is going to happen, I was saying that people don't take pleasure from the idea that Fallout 3 might be disappointing.

I dunno, perhaps I misjudged, and there really are some freakish individuals out there with a deeply masochistic desire not to get what they want?
 
Wooz said:
A flop doesn't imply the management realizing *why* it flopped
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I said "might" didn't I? Besides, we have given them a really big clue, and the suits at zenimax won't care why it flopped, only that it did, and in there eyes, that means that the IP is forever tainted. At that point, they will try to recoup some of there losses and sell the IP, and since it flopped, other "big" companies are unlikely to buy it, leaving the door open for a smaller, more talented, less greedy company to pick it up.

Brother None said:
Actually, if the game gets a bad reception, they'll just blame us.
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For what? Wanting the game to fail? Disagreeing with there philosophy? Some other voodoo-like spell? How can they possibly, logically, blame us?
 
Genoq said:
For what? Wanting the game to fail? Disagreeing with there philosophy? Some other voodoo-like spell? How can they possibly, logically, blame us?
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I think he's implying that logic would have very little to do with it...
Much like a majority of their statements about us so far.

you can only go so far reading into what they say about us and our opinions about Fallout 3, before you run headfirst into some logical fallacies, blatant scapegoating, and my favorite, that old line about "doing the best they can" as an excuse for failing miserably at things that we want them to be better at. (considering their profession and the things they've claimed to be creating)


If it fails miserably it wouldn't be much of a stretch for the gaming media, with a small push in the right direction from a certain company who's name begins with a B, to attribute it to the massive negative reaction from the rabid/hardcore/insert-stupid-ill-fitting-adjective fanbase of the originals.

They'll say we weren't happy without our 4 pixel chairs, so we engaged in a negative publicity campaign just to spite them, or some other illogical bullshit, and the ever-so-discerning people who actually take the gaming mags seriously will believe it.
 
Bernard Bumner said:
Other than disappointment, he gets the satisfaction of not being the kind of intellectual pervert who would rather something be bloody awful so that he can have a lovely fulfilling sense of schadenfreude at the fate of the creators of that abomination, than be good, so that he can have a nice, shiny, new sequel in one of greatest gaming series ever.
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You don't understand what I mean by "fail" and "succeed". By "fail" I mean "making a game that receives poor critical reviews and/or sells poorly". By "succeed" I mean "making a game that receives great critical reviews and/or sells very well", not "holds up to our expectations for a good Fallout sequel". There is a HUGE difference.

And of course I would like them to make a game that meets our standards for a Fallout sequel, but from everything I've seen or read, that's not what they're making.
 
Genoq said:
And of course I would like them to make a game that meets our standards for a Fallout sequel, but from everything I've seen or read, that's not what they're making.
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Which is what I thought, but not what you said initially.

I wasn't suggesting that Bethesda will or can make a decent a fist of it, what I'm definitely saying is that people here take no pleasure from the idea that they might produce a bad game rather than a good one.
 
I hope this game would be good so maybe it will re-invigorate the IP but I highly doubt it. Given Bethesdas past history of games, it is hard to be optimistic. Saying F3 will be a shooter with rpg elements is no different than saying that Call Of Duty 4 or Battlefield is not a shooter game because you can call in air strikes.

If you need to jump/strafe/roll/whattehfuck ever than it is still a shooter. When ASDF or QWSD is the dominant reason the player is alive, it is a shooter.

However, the fact that Bethesda is trying to implement a many permutation ending is a good sign. Hopefully, they will challenge themselves on a town by town ending instead of those retarded all inclusive KOTOR/Bioshock/Mass Effect endings that are absolutely horrible. Hopefully their dialogue trees will require the player to use some brain cells instead of grunting out an answer and transforming the grunt into a button press.
 
Mettle said:
Brother None, you forgot piracy!
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I'm not sure what this remark is even supposed to mean, but we don't talk about piracy here.

Genoq said:
For what? Wanting the game to fail? Disagreeing with there philosophy? Some other voodoo-like spell? How can they possibly, logically, blame us?
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What does logic matter? People still blame us for Tactics failing, despite the huge support the game got here and on DaC, they would've blamed us for F:BoS if they could.
 
He means if fallout 3 failed they would blame piracy since that has been a convenient scapegoat for other recent developers.


Put me in the "hope it fails" column..
If that makes me some sort of stereotype evil fan, so be it.
Bonus points if the failure of fallout 3 can be directly correlated to people being no longer willing to put up with dumbed down games.
 
Sign me up to the "hope it fails" list. It is a bit mean spirited, but Bethesda are like the petulant child that just won't listen, even though you've told them dozens, maybe hundreds of times. To me the only reasonable response to that is "Well, if they won't listen to me, then I guess it's up to them to learn that lesson on their own."

So you sigh and wait for that day to come, knowing the best you can do is be there to ease the pain of failure, and help them back on the path to success once they've learned their lesson. That's what the Codex tried to do with Oblivion, but unfortunately, the petulant child isn't aware it's done anything wrong, so it doesn't listen.

So I say, bring on the financial failure and put it in line with the design/production failures. Then they'll be forced to fix one in order to fix the other.
 
Brother None said:
What does logic matter? People still blame us for Tactics failing, despite the huge support the game got here and on DaC, they would've blamed us for F:BoS if they could.
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I was unaware we were blamed for Tactics failing, and if that's the case (and I have no doubt it is) logic really doesn't matter.

But remember, we have yet to see another Tactics. why? Because it failed. Same goes for F:BoS, we have yet to see another one because sales were mediocre at best. Can you imagine what it would be like if F:BoS had succeeded? We would have "Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel 5: Back to da Boneyard" on shelves right now. To quote (badly) the "A Beautiful Mind" movie, what kind of hell would that be?
 
Genoq said:
I do. I want there game to fail so bad it causes the name "bethesda" to be used as the butt of every bad video game joke for years to come.
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I'd rather it not be bad, but if it's going to be bad, I'd settle for it failing so badly that people just stop even talking about Bethesda in relation to Fallout. That it would be so blocked out and forgotten that the next developers to get the license (Obsidian for 'dream come true' points) could call their game Fallout 3 and nobody would even note that there was already a Fallout 3 released.

That might seem shitty of me, but I'm not just a Fallout fan who Bethesda has waved aside, but also a TES fan that Bethesda has waved aside in the dumbing down 'progression' of that series since Daggerfall. I tried to be nice about it when Morrowind came out. Maybe they just dropped the ball a bit there and TES would shape back up and recover from consoleitis. Then Oblivion came along and showed me that it was just continuing downward. Over the years, trying to be nice about it has worn thin.
 
Genoq said:
I was unaware we were blamed for Tactics failing, and if that's the case (and I have no doubt it is) logic really doesn't matter.

But remember, we have yet to see another Tactics. why? Because it failed.
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I'm not so sure Tactics failed. It got a mass of pre-orders, and sold decently I think. Section8 might know.

Genoq said:
Same goes for F:BoS, we have yet to see another one because sales were mediocre at best. Can you imagine what it would be like if F:BoS had succeeded? We would have "Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel 5: Back to da Boneyard" on shelves right now. To quote (badly) the "A Beautiful Mind" movie, what kind of hell would that be?
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Well, as much as the Codex and places like here like to swim an upstream battle, you can't really protect people from themselves. If they'd rather all run out and buy Halo 3 rather than demand quality design in shooters...hell, if they'll accept bad design in something that's so dependent on subtle good design as a shooter, there's little saving the RPG genre.

But perhaps that's too negative.
 
Genoq said:
I was unaware we were blamed for Tactics failing, and if that's the case (and I have no doubt it is) logic really doesn't matter.
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We've been blamed for the cancellation of Jefferson and Van Buren on the reasoning that we didn't buy enough copies of Tactics and/or FoBoS. Of course, no one who does this ever says, "I didn't buy enough copies of FoBoS", it's just the fandom who should have done that in order to bring other, better games to everyone else.
 
The game will not fail, simply because the Beth PR machine did a marvelous job at bribing all the magazines & other media out there to hype up the game and reach mass general acceptance. Most new fallout 3 fans that are anticipating this game could not care less about the previous fallout, as long as the game have trendy fps element with grand theft auto freedom in a somewhat unique environment, general public gamers will gobble any shit that are thrown at them.

If it wasn't for NMA keeping the brand alive for all those years I doubt that Beth would have taken interest . I not saying that its solely because of NMA but what would have been the incentive to bring back a game that no one even took the time to talk about after all those years ?
 
Sign me up for the "hope it flops" crowd.

While I don't think anyone who registers on a Fallout fansite is capable of deriving pleasure from Bethesda's constant screw-ups on what is supposed to be the next installment on the franchise (in fact, it can get pretty infuriating at times), I can most certainly relate to the people who hope that it goes the way of the FO:PoS, simply because the chances of it being a good Fallout game are already nil.

Pnp emulation is right out, SPECIAL was shoehorned on real-time for no particular reason, the humor sounds awfully infantile, the character design is really off (what with orcish Super-Mutants, zombie-like Ghouls, the Behemoth, for Christ's sake), the only tidbits of story so far stink real bad (BoS anyone?), the weapons mostly suck (I haven't forgotten about the flaming "Shish-ke-bab" sword nor the Fatman yet), the ambient music is gone, the list just keeps on going. Really, good dialogue (and that's assuming it's in) can only do so much for a game.

If it is critically acclaimed/sells well, Bethesda will just keep churning out more of the same. Morrowind and Oblivion already proved that. Thus, all that remains is the hope that, should the game fail, Bethesda will either sell the franchise or change its direction. It's a slim, idiotic hope, but I'll stick to it in the face of what I perceive as no alternative whatsoever.
 
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