master_of_flamaster
Mildly Dipped
No problem Big T.
I was just giving an example how the police in Poland "use" guns.
Perks of my job
- Thread starter WarMonger
- Start date
Mildly Dipped
I was just giving an example how the police in Poland "use" guns.
PsychoSniper
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
master_of_flamaster's point is a good one.
Guns are illegal (or real hard to get legaly).
Big deal.
Criminals will still get them, then the ones without will be those that obey the law.
Guns are illegal (or real hard to get legaly).
Big deal.
Criminals will still get them, then the ones without will be those that obey the law.
Ah yes, coming into a debate with a statement that has not only been said before, but also argumented against is the best thing one can do.
Pft. And I thought bans teach people something.
So basically you are saying that it doesn't work in Poland, because the laws there are shaky and can easily be circumvented. I think I can agree with that.
What really annoys me is that these gun nuts really believe that a country where guns are illegal is by definition an undemocratic, evil country, where criminals run around massacring defenseless people. Let me just remind you of two things:
1) Every European country has strict gun laws, and number of firearms per person in most of Europe is very, very low.
2) Vast majority of European countries have crime and murder rates low enough to make USA look like hell on Earth. Personally, the main reason why I am reluctant to move to US are your terrible murder rates. With all the guns going around and such wide availability of firearms and ammunition, I consider your country a very unsafe place to live.
1) Every European country has strict gun laws, and number of firearms per person in most of Europe is very, very low.
2) Vast majority of European countries have crime and murder rates low enough to make USA look like hell on Earth. Personally, the main reason why I am reluctant to move to US are your terrible murder rates. With all the guns going around and such wide availability of firearms and ammunition, I consider your country a very unsafe place to live.
Tsk, Rat, I thought you knew better than that. The high murder rates have not been proven to have anything to do with gun availability, and the more 'civilised' environments, the ones a univeristy graduate would be moving around at the very least, are just as safe as if not safer than Europe.Ratty said:
Personally, I wouldn't want to move to the States because of the mentality there: the culture is vastly different from the European Welfare culture, because of history and perhaps other reasons. The USA has a culture of individuality, 'you can make it if you try' (Which means that 50-year-olds start to work at burger places to pay for their second go through college, and be enthusiastic about it), but also of 'You do a bad job, and you're out of here', and personally I'm not comfortable living in such an environment.
This also explains part of the fascination with guns: in Europe, people have been deprived of weapon access for centuries because of governments, and have gotten used to it, (note that this doesn't mean gun restriction is a bad thing, look at the thing in itself, not the cause) while in the USA the mentality has been one of liberty above everything ever since the beginning, and this incorporates the right to bear and use arms. In fact, arms are seen as a 'last defence' against the government (whether or not that is actually useful is debatable), while this would absolutely not be the case in most of Europe. The difference isn't one of 'good' is here and 'bad' is there: it's one of culture and mentality, neither one being objectively better or worse than the other, but more different.
Sure I know, I watched that Michael Moore documentary. However, state of an average American's mind is presently such that an American is the last person in the world that should own a gun, yet guns are widely available there. As for 'civilized environments', I hate being confined to a specific area. In many cities, not just in USA, but also in Latin America, it's so dangerous for middle-class people to leave their fortified suburbs that they practically live under a constant siege. I'd hate to live like that. In my country I can go wherever I please without fearing for my safety.Sander said:
Your point being what? They won't go around shooting Croatians just because they come there, you know. The 'average American' also doesn't even exist. The country's more or less split intwine in that respect, but I do know that there isn't any fear of foreigners or the will to shoot them, as long as they're not of the muslim or arabian variety.
Duh gypsy, you don't have to restrict yourself to specific places. It seems rather obvious, though, that ghettos aren't the safest places around, but you don't have to fear for your life there. And I'm bloody sure that there are areas in the cities of Croatia where you'd rather not go as well.
That's irrelevant. The point is, USA is a country full of jumpy armed right-wing nutjobs who see terrorists everywhere. Personally I'd be uncomfortable riding on a subway train when there's a good chance I might step on some guy's toe and get him to draw a gun at me.Sander said:
I know I don't have to restrict myself to specific places, but I know people who live in America and are afraid to drive around with doors unlocked because someone might hijack their cars. I'd hate to live in a country where I have to look over my shoulder when walking down a street in an unfamiliar neighborhood. Of course there are a few dangerous neighborhoods in Croatia (though not nearly as many as in USA - for instance, we don't have ghettos), but at least when I go there, I know I can at worst expect to be harassed by a starving gypsy kid with a wooden stick, whereas in America chances are said gypsy kid would be brandishing an Uzi.
Jumpy, armed right-wing nutjobs? THere's a good chance they might draw a gun at you?
Get real, Ratty, that's just silly. That is NOT what the USA is like, people don't go about constantly carrying guns and trying to shoot people they don't like. Pft.
'
Yep, that's true enough. But that's not really much of a reason not to move there, since you won't be wanting to walk around those ghettos anyway.
Oh boy! A gun thread! 
:hangs self:
:hangs self:
Well they do in Hollywood movies!Sander said:
The Vault Dweller
always looking for water.
Thank you for defending my country Sander...
Ratty your just exaggerating or paranoid. I spent the first 17 years of my life in Los Angeles...the second largest city in the USA. There were plenty of dark, urban ghetto's some of which I visited. You get some weird looks and bad vibes, but Ive never been shot at or felt really afraid.
Who are these people who tell you you cant drive with your door's unlocked or you'll be carjacked? They probably watch too many movies...now THATS the real problem with my country. Letting the media intrepret your reality for you.
@ Wooz.
,
The Vault Dweller
Ratty your just exaggerating or paranoid. I spent the first 17 years of my life in Los Angeles...the second largest city in the USA. There were plenty of dark, urban ghetto's some of which I visited. You get some weird looks and bad vibes, but Ive never been shot at or felt really afraid.
Who are these people who tell you you cant drive with your door's unlocked or you'll be carjacked? They probably watch too many movies...now THATS the real problem with my country. Letting the media intrepret your reality for you.
@ Wooz. ,The Vault Dweller
My friend's cousin. His family has been living in Massachussets for decades now. I guess they came there with same fears as mine and still haven't managed to lose them.The_Vault_Dweller said:
Sane people who do carry firearms carry them to defend themselves and others against criminals and the like. I assume you aren't a criminal, Ratty? If you stepped on my toe in the subway and stuttered "Excuse me." as you lurched backward in fear, I'd just grin and say "No problem." and I'm the guy wearing the military jacket.
The media is a very bad places to get your news from and I hear much more about carjackings in South Africa than I ever have here. As far as walking around in safety? Anchorage has a pretty high sexual assault rate for the nation and I walk around with no problem... Indeed, my walking around openly might help to deter something like that from occuring. If I came upon some bastard committing such an act they better run very fast.
When I am old enough, I will carry a pistol for protection but that is it. Not to intimidate, scare, or harm other people. A few months ago it was made legal to carry a concealed weapon without a permit here in Alaska. Many people here go hiking and camping and having a firearm at the ready in case of an animal attack is a very good idea if you're out in the middle of nowhere or sometimes even on the outskirts of the city.
About two months ago a man was walking his dog on a trail through a patch of woods when a bear ran out onto the trail behind him and started charging him and his dog. He turned, pulled his revolver, and fired five shots. It was .357 or .44 Magnum if I recall and the bear was still alive after that. It took a shotgun slug from a police officer and the sixth shot from the man's revolver to finally kill it where it lay.
I'm sorry to say but you're really starting to sound a lot like a friend of mine I have in Australia who's just seen a lot of media hype about the evils of America and how we're all heathens running around shooting each other. There are television "documentaries" that I've heard about in Europe and Australia that their sole intent is to show how bad America is... Last I checked we didn't have those at our local video store about other nations. - Colt
The media is a very bad places to get your news from and I hear much more about carjackings in South Africa than I ever have here. As far as walking around in safety? Anchorage has a pretty high sexual assault rate for the nation and I walk around with no problem... Indeed, my walking around openly might help to deter something like that from occuring. If I came upon some bastard committing such an act they better run very fast.
When I am old enough, I will carry a pistol for protection but that is it. Not to intimidate, scare, or harm other people. A few months ago it was made legal to carry a concealed weapon without a permit here in Alaska. Many people here go hiking and camping and having a firearm at the ready in case of an animal attack is a very good idea if you're out in the middle of nowhere or sometimes even on the outskirts of the city.
About two months ago a man was walking his dog on a trail through a patch of woods when a bear ran out onto the trail behind him and started charging him and his dog. He turned, pulled his revolver, and fired five shots. It was .357 or .44 Magnum if I recall and the bear was still alive after that. It took a shotgun slug from a police officer and the sixth shot from the man's revolver to finally kill it where it lay.
I'm sorry to say but you're really starting to sound a lot like a friend of mine I have in Australia who's just seen a lot of media hype about the evils of America and how we're all heathens running around shooting each other. There are television "documentaries" that I've heard about in Europe and Australia that their sole intent is to show how bad America is... Last I checked we didn't have those at our local video store about other nations. - Colt
Why would Europeans and Australians bother with making movies that make America look bad, when your own Michael Moore does more than a good job?Colt said:
Ratty said:Why would Europeans and Australians bother with making movies that make America look bad, when your own Michael Moore does more than a good job?
I haven't seen Bowling for Columbine but I watched Fahrenheit 9/11 and I must say... Anyone with half a brain can see that it is very slanted and just... Bleh. I even watched all of the extra stuff on the DVD. - Colt
Corpse
Mildly Dipped
Back to topic, did you find out what type of cartridge it was?
Here is an ammunition resource site to help you in your quest.
http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/welcome.htm
Here is an ammunition resource site to help you in your quest.
http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/welcome.htm
