Pirates!

[Loxley]

I would prefer that. sounds crazy, but right now our economy is purely based on growth and overconsumption, which is uhm dumb. So instead of a second plasma tv or a third monitor for the average german nerd their is some money for somalia. is that so bad?

You think this money goes towards the average somalian man? You think the ones that does this are robin hood? Read some interviews with the ones that are doing this. They say. First they buy guns. Then they buy equipemt. Then they buy another wife and a new car and a new house. The money helps the average somalian not at all, instead it strenghtens the crimminals in the country.

"Hey son here is a gun, go rob a boat and become rich" That is the message this sends. How the hell does that help somalia? It does not help any sort of central controll since this will only make the people that have made somalia as fucked as it is, The somalian gunmen, more motivated to keep their guns and use them to blackmail. Not only that, it creates more money that again creates another influx of guns into the country.

Then there is the political side of it all. These men need guns to do the robbing. If some central power were to arrise that wants international recognition it would have to take care of the pirate problem. Oh wait, who has plenty of guns, an army of people willing to join their bussnies and a innterest in continuing the pirating? This will lead to further instability in Somalia.

 

[Roflcore]

well for one the pirate actually protect the somalian fishinggrounds, which sure as hell help the average somalian. remember the spanish fisherboat which was captured? guess what it was trying to do.

and two: all the stuff you mentioned is bought within somalia most likely. not all is produced in it, thats for sure, but even through transportation/"commerce" parts of the money will end in the pocket of the average men.
go rob some people is of course not a good message, but its not like they have plenty of opportunities. "Hm shall I become a pirate or go to collage..I'm not really sure.."

The last part I do not get. Are you talking about the islamist/muslime rebells?

 

[ceacar99]

piracy works in somolia because its a highly unstable area with plenty of places for pirates to hide and ports that will have them. pirates in the caribean died out to a very large degree because the stability of the region and the fact that only a few ports would have them and those places were more like pirate camps then any place worth visiting other then to keep your head low for a little while.

money for somolia won't help shit. first they need to gain some stability in the region. once all that fighting dies down farmers in somolia will start to develop. instead of it being a subsistance practice where the farmer pretty much breaks his back scratching out just enough to get by he actually produces surpluss and starts the economy. untill that point it will forever be a haven for pirates and thugs with its economy largely driven by guns, drugs and booze.

 

[Loxley]

well for one the pirate actually protect the somalian fishinggrounds, which sure as hell help the average somalian. remember the spanish fisherboat which was captured? guess what it was trying to do.

and two: all the stuff you mentioned is bought within somalia most likely. not all is produced in it, thats for sure, but even through transportation/"commerce" parts of the money will end in the pocket of the average men.
go rob some people is of course not a good message, but its not like they have plenty of opportunities. "Hm shall I become a pirate or go to collage..I'm not really sure.."

The last part I do not get. Are you talking about the islamist/muslime rebells?

NO it is not bought within somalia. The RPGS maybe. But do you think people that sell RPGs are the average somalian? New cars. New houses. New wives. These are people that will become an elite. An armed elite. What will such an elite do to continue their power do you think?

And do you for one second think this is about protecting somalian fishing grounds? This is about money. The reason they went for the fishing boat was most likely because it was a easy prey. Or do you mean that the other boats they went for also destroyed fishing grounds?

As for the last part. One of the things a central power needs is monopoly on violence if it is to enforce peace and political stability. Something that will bring much more prosperity than pirating. If there are groups that have weapons and refuse to listen to a central power, then the state will not be stable. Just look at lebanon and iraq as examples.

Not exactly stable countries are they? The pirates are well armed. They invest in weapon technology. And they have a continued interest in the instability of somalia. Because as long as somalia is as instable as it is now, the pirates can continue doing what they do. If a central power take over, be it liberal, communist or radical islam, that power will put a stop to piracy. Piracy=continued instability.

 

[Roflcore]

I recently watched a documentation about somalia everyday life, about some crazy western reporter who goes their every couple of month. according to him, guns and heavy weapons like rpgs can be bought everywhere. and this will "generate" commerce in some sort of way. in the long term that is surely not good, because more weapons and more armed troops will always cause problems, thats right, but for the moment it surely helps the people. same goes for the fisherman thing. they didn't do it for the people, but the people profit from it. next foreign fishingboat will think twice before illegaly loot the somalian fishingsgrounds (which are unprotected due to the lack of government). to the rest I agree, but its not like those people have much of a choice and I don't believe that the pirates are planing long term politic like you do.

 

[boer_kameel]

Like there are pilots for ships (people who guide it through shallow/narrow/harbour waters), one could introduce "gun pilots".

Take aboard some of those guys when the dangerous area is ahead, blam blam, drop 'em off when the area is cleared.
Perhaps even a good career choice for pirates who want some more stable source of income.

hi first time poster long time reader..... pirates,

did you see the latest pirate film?

it was rated RRRRRRRRRR

RDRR.

 

[Loxley]

to the rest I agree, but its not like those people have much of a choice and I don't believe that the pirates are planing long term politic like you do.

I do not think the pirates have any long term political plans, however I think they will still affect how things works out politically. How do you think they will react when sooner or later someone takes controll of the country(most likely going to be the muslim radicals) and these new leaders come and say. "Hey you armed guys over there, I know you guys got a good thing going, but we really need you to stop." Think they will just put down their weapons? And lets face it, no somalian government will be recognised by the international society unless they do something about the pirates.

I did some extra reading and you were correct, the somalian waters have been dumping grounds for poisons and have been raped by fishing fleets, so this will have a positive side effect.

 

[victor]

Fuck. Just read they're not lowering the ransom.

I really don't see the problem here. This can be solved with a few simple steps:

- Hire a PMC such as Blackwater which has ex-special forces and can coordinate hostage rescue operations (I bet they have plenty of ex-SAS)

- Locate the tanker, send said mercenaries. Kill all pirates so nobody can talk, free all hostages. Steer the ship back to Saudi Arabia

-Pay a few big news agencies to go out with a BS story about how the pirates realized they wouldn't get any money, so they released the ship with the hostages. Pay hostages to shut up.

The sheiks can easily afford this. I bet the almighty dollar sign comes before Allah, always.


While you're at it, send a few discreet death squadrons to halal those hypocritical Islamist dogs trying to topple the government.

Really, I personally wouldn't mind or be especially surprised if the US or Russia or whatever carpet bombed the entire ICU and watched them be incinerated in a white phosphorus cloud. Nobody likes Islamists. Seriously. It's probably the only thing the US and Russia can agree on. Enough with the PC-ness, wipe them off the face of the Earth and resume cold war, pls.

 

[John-Star]

1 carpet bomb somalia this is the base of most of the pirates.

2 do the same with evry country that harbor pirates.

3 the end.

 

[Loxley]

Really, I personally wouldn't mind or be especially surprised if the US or Russia or whatever carpet bombed the entire ICU and watched them be incinerated in a white phosphorus cloud. Nobody likes Islamists. Seriously. It's probably the only thing the US and Russia can agree on. Enough with the PC-ness, wipe them off the face of the Earth and resume cold war, pls.

The radical muslims are not the ones doing the pirating. Infact before the ethiopians interveened into somalia, there was a marked drop in the piracy in the area. Reason? The radical muslims put a stop to it. Now they are trying to score brownie points with the international society by attacking the pirate towns.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

Really, I personally wouldn't mind or be especially surprised if the US or Russia or whatever carpet bombed the entire ICU and watched them be incinerated in a white phosphorus cloud. Nobody likes Islamists. Seriously. It's probably the only thing the US and Russia can agree on. Enough with the PC-ness, wipe them off the face of the Earth and resume cold war, pls.

The radical muslims are not the ones doing the pirating. Infact before the ethiopians interveened into somalia, there was a marked drop in the piracy in the area. Reason? The radical muslims put a stop to it. Now they are trying to score brownie points with the international society by attacking the pirate towns.

Do you have a source for all that? I think it would be an interesting read and I did not know that side of it.

Either way honestly what does it matter? Bomb it all and kill two birds with one stone. No one is going to miss a bunch of dead pirates and Muslims.

 

[Loxley]

Do you have a source for all that? I think it would be an interesting read and I did not know that side of it.

Either way honestly what does it matter? Bomb it all and kill two birds with one stone. No one is going to miss a bunch of dead pirates and Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_attacked_by_Somali_pirates

The muslim courts that controlled the mayority of somalia was chased mostly into hiding around the end of 2006 begining of 2007.

Then there is this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7743204.stm
and this: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5huZX1j35evP_2f7juvNifVKrMboQ

 

[victor]

Odd. I read in a newspaper today nobody was really sure if the ICU was really trying to hunt down the pirates, or making deals with them. After all, they need weapon supplies to fight their holy war.

 

[Loxley]

Odd. I read in a newspaper today nobody was really sure if the ICU was really trying to hunt down the pirates, or making deals with them. After all, they need weapon supplies to fight their holy war.

The ICU is not longer around as far as I understand. The groups now out there are divisions of ICU. Also they seem to be mostly focused on saving ships from muslim countries.
On another note.

A picture taken of the pirate mother ship.

 

[SuAside]

- Hire a PMC such as Blackwater which has ex-special forces and can coordinate hostage rescue operations (I bet they have plenty of ex-SAS)

SAS in Blackwater? i though Blackwater was really strictly american.

Executive Outcomes and such was mostly SAS. oh, how sad that such an awesome group has been disbanded...

- Locate the tanker, send said mercenaries. Kill all pirates so nobody can talk, free all hostages. Steer the ship back to Saudi Arabia

if the pirates are semi-intelligent, you'll enjoy a fucking huge fireball right there, my friend.

seriously, it aint hard, especially if you're in a town full of people who support your actions.

 

[victor]

I thought they had brought the tanker out to sea, with ICU or its equivalent chasing them out of the harbor.

 

[ceacar99]

SAS in Blackwater? i though Blackwater was really strictly american.

Executive Outcomes and such was mostly SAS. oh, how sad that such an awesome group has been disbanded...

lol and i thought blackwater would take just about anyone who knew what they were doing, ranging from americans to south americans, british pretty much anyone who would sign up.

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

Nobody likes Islamists. Seriously. It's probably the only thing the US and Russia can agree on. Enough with the PC-ness, wipe them off the face of the Earth

I agree on this. Fuck those guys. They can be crazy in hell if they want.

- Hire a PMC such as Blackwater which has ex-special forces and can coordinate hostage rescue operations (I bet they have plenty of ex-SAS)

- Locate the tanker, send said mercenaries. Kill all pirates so nobody can talk, free all hostages. Steer the ship back to Saudi Arabia

Why the whole "Hire mercenaries, kill those pirates and liberate hostages" makes me think of Jagged Alliance?

I think it would make a great Jagged Alliance game.

 

[SuAside]

lol and i thought blackwater would take just about anyone who knew what they were doing, ranging from americans to south americans, british pretty much anyone who would sign up.

not as far as i know.

also, "know what they were doing" is mostly optional, nowadays.

 

[Loxley]

Why the whole "Hire mercenaries, kill those pirates and liberate hostages" makes me think of Jagged Alliance?

I think it would make a great Jagged Alliance game.

Take good old aim into a wartorn country to destroy pirate bases. The populace is too poor to defend themselves against the rich pirates. So you must defeat some local first warlords to get enough money to go after the pirates later on. Sounds like a game to me.