Playing as a black dude

[Von Drunky]

I was referring to Jews owning all the business like the Gnome shop keepers.

Are you saying that if some people conceive of Jews as stereotypical shop owners, then if some other people make up a race of stereotypical shop owners, they are automatically riffing off the conceptions of the first group? They can't make up things independently of what some other people think? Anyone who goes to the metaphysical shop-owning slot to put something in it will find it already filled by stereotypical Jews?

No silly not the stereotypical shop owners, I said business owners (some other suspiciously similar traits mentioned earlier). Gnomes have a natural ability for economics which is the corner stone for any successful business. Did we all forget why Hitler came to power?

(Dear lord I’ve just associated Hitler with Gnomes I really hope you can see the relationship I’m trying to establish)

Now, do we want to keep "Niggas" out of our fantasy worlds or do we become PC or do we push for developers to expand our options in open ended RPGs?

Or perhaps some of us don't believe it is quite the big issue you make it out to be, while not being racists?

Its really not that big of a deal to me, I never said I was an activist and being an immigrant I know the only way to actually get somewhere in life is to work for it. I just didn’t want to turn the GTA:IV thread into this, so I started a separate one for the topic. I was just very disappointed that I am the only one that did not have a problem with GTA SA because it revolved around black culture. Fallout wasn’t really supposed to be dragged into this (still expected being a Fallout fan site) I think my point was proven when I asked “What do you think the really reason behind this is?” and some goon responded with

General lack of memorable black characters in history = general lack of interesting archetypes?

Now that’s just bullshit, there are plenty of memorable black people in music, movies, sports and politics.

Your right its not a big deal.

 

[Sorrow]

General lack of memorable black characters in history = general lack of interesting archetypes?

Now that’s just bullshit, there are plenty of memorable black people in music, movies, sports and politics.

i.e. which ones?

I was just very disappointed that I am the only one that did not have a problem with GTA SA because it revolved around black culture.

What exacly do you mean by black culture?

 

[Sander]

No silly not the stereotypical shop owners, I said business owners (some other suspiciously similar traits mentioned earlier). Gnomes have a natural ability for economics which is the corner stone for any successful business. Did we all forget why Hitler came to power?

(Dear lord I’ve just associated Hitler with Gnomes I really hope you can see the relationship I’m trying to establish)

Good job at completely missing his point.
His point was that while Jews are associated with a negative stereotype, that does not mean every fictional creature that shares that negative stereotype is based on Jews.

 

[Montez]

Now, do we want to keep "Niggas" out of our fantasy worlds or do we become PC or do we push for developers to expand our options in open ended RPGs?

This is a good example of why racism is impossible to discuss in our country - because it's not actually about discussing racism in an attempt to find answers or solutions, it's about starting a crusade to get someone what they want, and giving them a very effective means of dismissing anyone who opposes them. "You're either with me, or you're a racist". That there is some mysterious agenda by some mysterious people that aims to keep black people out of video games hasn't been proved, argued, debated, discussed, or even hinted at, and factual data seems to show that the "absence" of black characters is more or less to be expected - yet here you are asserting that the problem is racist game developers and that something needs to be done about it.

Edit:

i.e. which ones?

What exacly do you mean by black culture?

Where are you from, exactly?

 

[Sorrow]

Poland.

 

[Von Drunky]

No silly not the stereotypical shop owners, I said business owners (some other suspiciously similar traits mentioned earlier). Gnomes have a natural ability for economics which is the corner stone for any successful business. Did we all forget why Hitler came to power?

(Dear lord I’ve just associated Hitler with Gnomes I really hope you can see the relationship I’m trying to establish)

Good job at completely missing his point.
His point was that while Jews are associated with a negative stereotype, that does not mean every fictional creature that shares that negative stereotype is based on Jews.

Sorrow said Arcanum had half-orcs, instead of black people and I’m missing the point? Are you kidding me, that game was a mockery of our society during the industrial revolution in respect to the different races. If it was just about fictional creatures that had no association which each other then I would never say that a gnome might have been based on the stereotypical jew. But in a game universe where racism plays a factor is it that hard to look behind the big picture. To realize that certain races are actually portraying real life ethnicity? Do you remember when the orcs were on strike and they wanted to unionize ? I could have sworn I read about a very similar scenario only it wasn’t the orcs on strike.

 

[Montez]

Poland.

Ok, I thought you were just playing Socrates or something. As for memorable black people in music, movies, sports and politics..... There are way too many to list, and I don't know what good a list would do you since you probably wouldn't recognize them. I don't think anyone in the US would disagree with Von Drunky's statement about it though.

And I missed it before so didn't respond, but Von Drunky, what gives you the impression that you were the only one who didn't have a problem with GTA:SA? The game was hugely popular, and I've personally never met anyone who wouldn't play it because it because it had a black protagonist and was about black culture.

 

[Von Drunky]

Poland.

Ok, I thought you were just playing Socrates or something. As for memorable black people in music, movies, sports and politics..... There are way too many to list, and I don't know what good a list would do you since you probably wouldn't recognize them. I don't think anyone in the US would disagree with Von Drunky's statement about it though.

And I missed it before so didn't respond, but Von Drunky, what gives you the impression that you were the only one who didn't have a problem with GTA:SA? The game was hugely popular, and I've personally never met anyone who wouldn't play it because it because it had a black protagonist and was about black culture.

That was in regard to the "Hopeful features in GTA IV" thread. The only reason I started this thread is because having a black protagonist smeed to be everyone’s biggest problem, which you can see for yourself if you read the GTA:IV thread. I know the game is very popular and lots of people I know play it.

 

[Sorrow]

Poland.

Ok, I thought you were just playing Socrates or something.

I did.

As for memorable black people in music, movies, sports and politics..... There are way too many to list, and I don't know what good a list would do you since you probably wouldn't recognize them.

You can limit the list to those who commited a major genocide, ruled a big country, conquered nations, etc.

The only reason I started this thread is because having a black protagonist smeed to be everyone’s biggest problem, which you can see for yourself if you read the GTA:IV thread.

Black protagonist wasn't my problem with GTA: SA. Hip hop was my problem with GTA: SA.

 

[Montez]

The only reason I started this thread is because having a black protagonist smeed to be everyone’s biggest problem, which you can see for yourself if you read the GTA:IV thread. I know the game is very popular and lots of people I know play it.

You're crazy. I just read that thread, and you were the only one who made any comment on CJ's color. You started accusing people of being racist because they didn't like the story - the story, not the characters, not the setting, nothing to do with race. No one besides you even brought up that the game had a black protagonist, and most people said they enjoyed the game. You're fighting an imaginary enemy.

 

[MediaMogul]

so basically we going down to the who hates blacks thing now ey ?

 

[Wooz]

No, we're going down to the part where I ban your ass for being a troll.

Get the fuck out.

 

[Von Drunky]

Meh, GTA died with Vice City. The chance of them ever topping that is slim to none. But at least the story seems to be better in GTAIV than in San Andreas.

SA had better feature by far then any GTA game to date so its safe to say it wasn’t the game play. So what’s left the story and characters, what and who was the story about? and not likening the story might be a result of what?

I say more shooting, killing and running people over with cars.

Less managing useless stupid shit like your own hoods and the stats of your character.

And I really do hope that the protagonist of GTA IV is not going to be like CJ... I mean, I liked Claude Speed, because he was neutral silent protagonist and I loved Tommy Vercetti, because he was one really cruel asshole and just wanted to be rich and powerful.

But CJ, oh Jesus... He wanted to make everything right in his old hood and protect his family... What a piece of shit background for a protagonist in a GTA game.

Fuck CJ, I hope he and his family are gonna burn in hell.

Case and point, Tommy Vercettie ran his mouth just as much if not more then CJ. And all three of them were psychopaths. What did Tommy and Speed have in common as appose to CJ?

Yeah but he never shuts up about bringing the family and the hood back together, even as he does the opposite. That's mostly what annoyed me about him, he talks way too much.

Hence playing the role of a hood rat?



I’m the crazy one I just want people to admit the real reason why they didn’t enjoy the game.

so basically we going down to the who hates blacks thing now ey ?

That’s what it was always about. I really do love this topic.

 

[Sorrow]

Von Drunky -> You seem to assume that all black people are hip-hop loving criminals from ghetto - that's racist.

 

[Montez]

I’m the crazy one I just want people to admit the real reason why they didn’t enjoy the game.

Well, are you saying that any criticism of San Andreas is racist, or are you saying that it's possible that racism underlies the criticism? Cause one of those statements is crazy, and one isn't.

 

[Von Drunky]

Von Drunky -> You seem to assume that all black people are hip-hop loving criminals from ghetto - that's racist.

No shit I’m from NYC. But seriously one of my friends is a gym/health teacher at a Jr. High school in Jamaica Queens it’s a ghetto and every 6th-8th grader he asks “what do you want to be when you grow up” 90% of them say I want to be a rapper why cuz they gangsta!!

One of my favorite professors in my University is black; He and I talk about this type of shit all the time. The reason we get along so well is because we both know that we are a bit racist.

No I don’t assume anything, my question is why some people give a game of lower quality where the plot is a white criminal more credit then a game of higher quality where the plot is a black criminal? Either way their not role models

I’m the crazy one I just want people to admit the real reason why they didn’t enjoy the game.

Well, are you saying that any criticism of San Andreas is racist, or are you saying that it's possible that racism underlies the criticism? Cause one of those statements is crazy, and one isn't.

Criticize San Andreas all you want. You didn’t like the Girlfriends, the Hood attacks, Radio station, stats in the game that is perfectly fine. But as I have shown you people did have a problem with both CJ and the Story. Doesn’t that make you wonder why? Not all black people criminals, just like not all white people are criminals. But for some reason people(This is limited to the thread at this point) prefer to play with one type of criminal over another.

Poland.

Ok, I thought you were just playing Socrates or something.

I did.

As for memorable black people in music, movies, sports and politics..... There are way too many to list, and I don't know what good a list would do you since you probably wouldn't recognize them.

You can limit the list to those who commited a major genocide, ruled a big country, conquered nations, etc.

Google Moors and see what comes up

 

[Tagaziel]

Von Drunky, San Andreas' story and protagonist were criticized not because it was "black", but because it was "stereotypically black", portraying almost all black people (find me one in game that breaks this stereotype) as real gangstas or their derivatives (including Jizzy). Kendl along with CJ are the only ones leaving it.

Apart from CJ, there is a significant lack of any character development of any of other black characters (Ryder stays a stoned asshole, Big Smoke remains an upbeat dork, Sweet a typical gang leader...). Non-black characters have more depth and, well, character to them. For instance, Toreno, The Truth, Wu Zi Mu, Cesar...

Plus, CJ was unconvincing, not shedding the smallest bit of his ghetto attitude and personality after going through San Fierro and Las Venturas and behaving like a gangsta where common sense dictates he shouldn't.

So all in all, we don't complain that CJ and the story were black, but because they were stereotypical black.

 

[Sander]

SA had better feature by far then any GTA game to date so its safe to say it wasn’t the game play.

Er, wrong. I disliked the gameplay, all of the whining you got throughout the game. I honestly think Vice City was a fundamentally better game.

So what’s left the story and characters, what and who was the story about? and not likening the story might be a result of what?

Of the hypocritical nature of the main character. You're stabbing people in the back, killing random folks off the street while he's whining about not believing that his hood brothers could betray him, or the death of his mom.
The difference with Vercetti and Speed was that those two were purely egoistical. They did not give a shit about anyone else.

Also, you seem to be missing the point that 'ghetto' is not a part of 'black culture'. If anything, it's part of the ghetto culture. Hip-hop aside, you can't call drug-dealing, mysoginism and murder 'culture'.

I’m the crazy one I just want people to admit the real reason why they didn’t enjoy the game.

Assuming everyone is a racist is a pretty retarded and insulting thing to do.

You can limit the list to those who commited a major genocide, ruled a big country, conquered nations, etc.

Erwhat?

 

[MrBumble]

SHADOWMAN and OUTCAST also...

 

[Tagaziel]

SHADOWMAN and OUTCAST also...

I don't think Cutter was black.