Plot-holes and logical inconsistencies of FO3?

[Walpknut]

Plot hole ridden, The Enclave has a shitton of vertibirds they can dispatch to attacks someone who shoot an Eyebot while in FO2 even before their defeat they were short on Vertibirds. The Geck now terraforms instead of being a farming kit, Vault 87 has Supermutants with a very flimsy explanation that ignores a good chunk of lore concerning the FEV, a Town build around an undetonated Nuke somehow surviving despite having no farms or clean water, a town full of kids, a town made out of three houses, the Trading hub has no farms or any means to actually produce something to trade, Tenpenny tower makes no sense in the least. and I could go on, but this has already been said.

 

[ZeusComplex]

Perhaps, I'm putting too much faith in Bethesda, but they give me the impression that there was another game in Fallout 3 that was scrapped and replaced with the material we got from the main release. I don't know game design, so what I assume (and yes, it is a big assumption) is that world design came first before quest and story design. Maybe the release date they set for themselves prevented them from really making sure the material they used was at least somewhat coherent.

It really does seem that Fallout 3 was to take place just a few dozen years after the war occurred. Somewhere along the line, they thought that by adding in the BOS, the Enclave, and the supermutants, it would be a fallback to that classic Fallout feeling. However, this is impossible to have happened in this early lore time frame and to make it work, they moved the timeline a few hundred years forward. Of course, this makes no sense given how rushed the events where, but the designers have already admitted they will sacrifice sense to make something cool.

The entire world just screams right after the war. It wouldn't surprise me if the world Beth had built was near completion before they started to add in things like quests and the main storyline. They really didn't have a preplanning outline and the whole experience just feels like a "Fuck it, let's wing it" session. I even remember reading somewhere that with Oblivion, Todd really didn't have the time or means (or talent) to do much predesign before they tackled the game itself. Which yet again, gave that game a very amateur messy feeling.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

"Dialogue wasn't a battle we wanted to pick"
- Pete Hines

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Perhaps, I'm putting too much faith in Bethesda, but they give me the impression that there was another game in Fallout 3 that was scrapped and replaced with the material we got from the main release. I don't know game design, so what I assume (and yes, it is a big assumption) is that world design came first before quest and story design. Maybe the release date they set for themselves prevented them from really making sure the material they used was at least somewhat coherent.

It really does seem that Fallout 3 was to take place just a few dozen years after the war occurred. Somewhere along the line, they thought that by adding in the BOS, the Enclave, and the supermutants, it would be a fallback to that classic Fallout feeling. However, this is impossible to have happened in this early lore time frame and to make it work, they moved the timeline a few hundred years forward. Of course, this makes no sense given how rushed the events where, but the designers have already admitted they will sacrifice sense to make something cool.

The entire world just screams right after the war. It wouldn't surprise me if the world Beth had built was near completion before they started to add in things like quests and the main storyline. They really didn't have a preplanning outline and the whole experience just feels like a "Fuck it, let's wing it" session. I even remember reading somewhere that with Oblivion, Todd really didn't have the time or means (or talent) to do much predesign before they tackled the game itself. Which yet again, gave that game a very amateur messy feeling.

You could be right, who knows. Todd said that their pre-production phase is as short as possible and then make up the design as they go along because "what you plan early gets changed anyway". So, yeah...

 

[brandonhart61]

Plot hole ridden, The Enclave has a shitton of vertibirds they can dispatch to attacks someone who shoot an Eyebot while in FO2 even before their defeat they were short on Vertibirds. The Geck now terraforms instead of being a farming kit, Vault 87 has Supermutants with a very flimsy explanation that ignores a good chunk of lore concerning the FEV, a Town build around an undetonated Nuke somehow surviving despite having no farms or clean water, a town full of kids, a town made out of three houses, the Trading hub has no farms or any means to actually produce something to trade, Tenpenny tower makes no sense in the least. and I could go on, but this has already been said.

True, same thing with ammo boxes (it's those silly things that make it interesting), but I still like the game and wouldn't resort to calling it retarded like other people. But there must be good things about the game for it to receive good reviews

 

[TorontoReign]

There are good things, but most of the Fallout buffs agree that Fallout 3 was made for a different crowd than the originals, and the bad outweighs the good in most respects. Fallout 3 was one of the most horribly written games I have ever played. The main plot was bullshit and I can't understand why some people prefer it to New Vegas. I don't understand why some people praise Fallout 3 and it's quests. I might add that I defended the game from many haters before it came out, but it let me down bigtime. I enjoyed Fallout 3 the least out of all the core games, but at least it continued the series for new fans, as a result New Vegas came out, so it worked out ok. Fallout: New Vegas redeemed the series for me.

I did not try to over-analyze any of Fallout 3's plotlines, but they all instantly fell apart when I encountered them. They made no logical sense, and were poorly done. After trying to play Fallout 3 again after playing New Vegas, I couldn't enjoy it in the least bit. New Vegas had issues, don't get me wrong, but Fallout 3 takes the cake.

Make the Enclave look like the BOS with black suits. Check.

Make all Raiders bloodthirsty cannibals who leave dead bodies on the walls in their houses? Check.

Make the Brotherhood of Steel like Arthurs Knights of the Round? Check.

Make the Wasteland appear to be completely incapable of surviving ,thriving, and sustaining life, due to more focus on "cool" things to do instead of working farms, power supplies, and trade routes. Check.

Completely change the look and attitude of the Mutants, thereby transforming them into rampaging Orcs. Check,

I could go on and on, but it boils down to Fallout 3 being the weak link in the series, it's game sales being due to Oblivion fans, FPS fans, and the remaining Fallout fans. The game brought people that don't normally play RPG's into the genre, but it dumbed down the series to the point of absurdity. Obsidian corrected many problems with FNV , minus the core game engine faults, so Fallout 3 shows it's flaws even more now.

To each his own though.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Didn't the enclave already look like BOS in black? Sure the original armor was a bit bullkier, but that's what they were.

And what do you mean the Mutants weren't Orcish to begin with?
They seemed to do quite a bit of marauding and slaughtering in the first games.

But yeah, making an altruistic version of the BoS was dumb. It was nice that they also kept the originals (Outcasts), but still.

Completely agree with the fact that raiders are OTT. They are ordinary humans. They may be drugged and savage, but that does not make them the reavers from firefly.

 

[TorontoReign]

Didn't the enclave already look like BOS in black? Sure the original armor was a bit bullkier, but that's what they were.

And what do you mean the Mutants weren't Orcish to begin with?
They seemed to do quite a bit of marauding and slaughtering in the first games.

But yeah, making an altruistic version of the BoS was dumb. It was nice that they also kept the originals (Outcasts), but still.

Completely agree with the fact that raiders are OTT. They are ordinary humans. They may be drugged and savage, but that does not make them the reavers from firefly.

The Enclave were bastardized in Fallout 3. Look at the Enclave armor in New Vegas. That is exactly how ALL of the Enclave armor should look. Not like spray painted T51 armor.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

The Enclave were bastardized in Fallout 3. Look at the Enclave armor in New Vegas. That is exactly how ALL of the Enclave armor should look. Not like spray painted T51 armor.

Duh, that's wrong man... everybody knows that the Enclave jacked a couple hundred suits of mid-western BoS armor and spray painted that black on their way east.

 

[White Knight]

And what do you mean the Mutants weren't Orcish to begin with?
They seemed to do quite a bit of marauding and slaughtering in the first games.

Actually you could talk to them, even then dumb ones in the first game. You could also join them out of free will. Their objective was to kindap people so they could be turned into super mutants, which was the Masters way of creating a unified society. The super mutants in FO3 are hostile on sight, meaning you can't interact with them, making them the typical 'Orc' enemy, who are there for no reason other than to be XP fodder.

 

[TorontoReign]

The Enclave were bastardized in Fallout 3. Look at the Enclave armor in New Vegas. That is exactly how ALL of the Enclave armor should look. Not like spray painted T51 armor.

Duh, that's wrong man... everybody knows that the Enclave jacked a couple hundred suits of mid-western BoS armor and spray painted that black on their way east.

That sounds like a reasonable explanation. Probably why there is a base in Chicago. That is where they spray paint all of the armor at. They probably have assembly lines full of spray painting robots.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

And what do you mean the Mutants weren't Orcish to begin with?
They seemed to do quite a bit of marauding and slaughtering in the first games.

Actually you could talk to them, even then dumb ones in the first game. You could also join them out of free will. Their objective was to kindap people so they could be turned into super mutants, which was the Masters way of creating a unified society. The super mutants in FO3 are hostile on sight, meaning you can't interact with them, making them the typical 'Orc' enemy, who are there for no reason other than to be XP fodder.

With the exception of Fawkes and that uncle guy.
Besides, I think the only reason why the mutants were organized in the first game was because of the master. Without a leading figure like that, I am sure they would have become like the Vault 87 Super Mutants.

 

[White Knight]

And what do you mean the Mutants weren't Orcish to begin with?
They seemed to do quite a bit of marauding and slaughtering in the first games.

Actually you could talk to them, even then dumb ones in the first game. You could also join them out of free will. Their objective was to kindap people so they could be turned into super mutants, which was the Masters way of creating a unified society. The super mutants in FO3 are hostile on sight, meaning you can't interact with them, making them the typical 'Orc' enemy, who are there for no reason other than to be XP fodder.

With the exception of Fawkes and that uncle guy.
Besides, I think the only reason why the mutants were organized in the first game was because of the master. Without a leading figure like that, I am sure they would have become like the Vault 87 Super Mutants.

No there are Super Mutants with above average intelligence, and these have acted as Leaders of groups of super mutants after the Masters death, as seen New Vegas. It shows that without the master, the super mutants can still be peaceful. Jacobstown is a perfect example of this.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

And what do you mean the Mutants weren't Orcish to begin with?
They seemed to do quite a bit of marauding and slaughtering in the first games.

Actually you could talk to them, even then dumb ones in the first game. You could also join them out of free will. Their objective was to kindap people so they could be turned into super mutants, which was the Masters way of creating a unified society. The super mutants in FO3 are hostile on sight, meaning you can't interact with them, making them the typical 'Orc' enemy, who are there for no reason other than to be XP fodder.

With the exception of Fawkes and that uncle guy.
Besides, I think the only reason why the mutants were organized in the first game was because of the master. Without a leading figure like that, I am sure they would have become like the Vault 87 Super Mutants.

No there are Super Mutants with above average intelligence, and these have acted as Leaders of groups of super mutants after the Masters death, as seen New Vegas. It shows that without the master, the super mutants can still be peaceful. Jacobstown is a perfect example of this.

Well, Tabitha was a nightkin, and those I think were designed to be the elite in the master's army, so it would make sense that he ended up leading a group of mutants.
Ditto with Keenan (whatever his name was)

And there were peaceful mutants in FO3 as well...just not as many.

Marcus...yeah ok, I got nothing.

 

[White Knight]

And what do you mean the Mutants weren't Orcish to begin with?
They seemed to do quite a bit of marauding and slaughtering in the first games.

Actually you could talk to them, even then dumb ones in the first game. You could also join them out of free will. Their objective was to kindap people so they could be turned into super mutants, which was the Masters way of creating a unified society. The super mutants in FO3 are hostile on sight, meaning you can't interact with them, making them the typical 'Orc' enemy, who are there for no reason other than to be XP fodder.

With the exception of Fawkes and that uncle guy.
Besides, I think the only reason why the mutants were organized in the first game was because of the master. Without a leading figure like that, I am sure they would have become like the Vault 87 Super Mutants.

No there are Super Mutants with above average intelligence, and these have acted as Leaders of groups of super mutants after the Masters death, as seen New Vegas. It shows that without the master, the super mutants can still be peaceful. Jacobstown is a perfect example of this.

Well, Tabitha was a nightkin, and those I think were designed to be the elite in the master's army, so it would make sense that he ended up leading a group of mutants.
Ditto with Keenan (whatever his name was)

Marcus...yeah ok, I got nothing.

But if you read Tabithas computer, you see that the mutants only became hostile after tabitha took over. This shows that how they behave depends on their leader. the game mentions that most super mutants are just looking for another leader after the Master. Fallout 3 just made them hostile with no explanation.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Really? Damn, never had a look at that. Oh well, there goes my logic.

Unless...weren't the Vault 87 muties made by a different strain of FEV?
Maybe one that increased aggression? It was originally created as a way to make super soldiers after all. Maybe the scientists at DC cooked it up.

 

[Hassknecht]

Yes, the Vault 87 FEV was a different variant. That's also the reason why the East Coast super mutants are all dumb as bricks, look different and continue to grow as they age.

 

[White Knight]

Really? Damn, never had a look at that. Oh well, there goes my logic.

Unless...weren't the Vault 87 muties made by a different strain of FEV?
Maybe one that increased aggression? It was originally created as a way to make super soldiers after all. Maybe the scientists at DC cooked it up.

The only problem with that only West-Tek did experiments with FEV. Vault-Tec shouldn't have it, and it isn't explained how they got their hands on it.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Maybe the US government gave it to them?
According to the enclave, the FEV was proving difficult to use.
They prolly saw that west-tek weren't having much success with it, so they tried it out with Vault-Tek in one of the new vaults.

Just a theory.

 

[Oppen]

Another unanswered question is WHY DC's supermutants wants to turn everyone in supermutants. It's not like they want to unify anything, and none of the ingame data suggests they've got any kind of leader.
All previous mutants had a leader and that was the reason they dipped more people. Only the smart mutants thought about it, and only smart ones (or commanded ones) would know how to manipulate the relevant machinery.

Another question is why you can't blow up the vault after retrieving the GECK... I mean, you are there already, you found out the origin of the problematic mutants is right there, just put a little C4 or sabotage their nuclear plant so it blows up and you neutralize the threat. Damn, your father is smart enough to develope a way to purify the polluted water, but not to suggest a final solution to that problem? The BoS? Anyone?