Theinnerfish
Storytelling skeleton
Though if i remember correctly, game only says that t-60 developed after t-51b. Yet it doesn't mentions it's actualy better.
Power Armour changes.
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
Khannis
Rebuilding America
Not to mention that, since you've developed a better, more advanced armor, why deploy it domestically first? Surely the frontlines should get all of the cutting edge equipment?
Same reason you would deploy vetibirds at home first.
You aren't going to throw prototype equipment, that could possibly be faulty in some major way you don't know about, on the front lines before doing some sort of long-term testing on it.
Also, why does the better and more advanced T-60 look like an upgraded T-45 instead of an upgrade over the T-51?
The game doesn't state that T-60 is better via text, but in-game stats show that it indeed is.
According to Fallout: Shelter, the T-60A was the most advanced pre-war PA. So they have said it was the most advanced.
http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout_Shelter_outfits#Power_armor
T-45A: Before there even was power armor, there was this suit.
T-45D: Deployed pre-War against Chinese tanks. That's right – tanks.
T-45F: Lovingly maintained. Favored by neo knights and paladins.
T-51A: An enhanced prototype that saw limited use pre-War.
T-51D: One of the most advanced armors created before the Great War.
T-51F: Armor worthy of a Brotherhood of Steel Star Paladin. And you.
T-60A: The pinnacle of powered pre-War protection.
T-60D: Renowned protection, favored by the Brotherhood of Steel.
T-60F: Specially enhanced and vastly superior to most other armors.
X-01 MKI: They guys who protected the President wore this. It's THAT good.
X-01 MKIV: Advanced post-war power armor, for a post-apocalyptic world.
X-01 MKVI: The most advanced protection created by human hands. Enjoy.
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Yea, according to Shelter. It's not part of the series. So who gives a F*ck?
Its an official product in the series, and introduced many of the things that were in Fallout 4 before Fallout 4 came out.
While Vault 999 or w/e number you make isn't canon, the item descriptions and such are still perfectly valid.
Maybe for the same reason why the M36 tank destroyer with the new and powerfull 90mm anti tank gun ressembles more the medium Shermans and particularly the M10 tank destroyers rather than the Pershing heavy tank, which was a completely new design. The M36 tank hunter was basically an upguned M10 with a new turret and a change from the 76mm anti tank gun to the 90mm.
The US converted also a couple of Shermans to use the turret with the new 90mm gun, as stop gab till the new M36 arrived. Those models had the designation M36B1. The rest of the M36 had the hull of the M10, as far as I know.
The M26 Pershing heavy tank, which was send to Europe in 1945. Considering their late arrival, only a very few of those actually saw the battlefield, and even less of them combat. They saw extensive use in the Korean war. Later the Pershing was changed from a heavy to a medium tank. It was inspired or at least meant to engange Panthers and Tigers head on with a higher success of defeating them compared to the Sherman. The Pershing was comparable to the Panther in protection and firepower. Albeit the gun was slightly more powerfull.
It's not rare to take older designs and to upgrade those, making them more efficient or to keep older units in combat trough upgrades and changes. Those vehicles would often enough fight alongside new designs. Tanks would see new engines, turrets with more powerfull guns and many other smaller and bigger changes. The Panzer IV of the German army is a very popular example, as it has probably seen a lot of different types and changes. From an infantry support vehicle with a short 75mm gun to a medium tank with a new powerfull long 75mm anti tank gun in a new turret, with upgraded armor values, engines and tracks better suited to deal with the harsh conditions of Russia. The T34 saw also some changes, with a new turret using the 85mm gun instead of the 76mm guns.
So, the concept of the upgraded T-60 Power Armor doesn't surprise me that much to be honest.
It's just that Bethesda did a very poor job of explaining it or showing it to the player. The T-51 could be easily explained as a whole new concept/design on its own, which only used the T-45 as idea, where the T-60 was an upgrade of existing T-45 units, with better use of the power source and added protection. Both designs could have similar stats, or even the same stats, where the T-51 canonicaly would be simply easier to produce, while the T-60 was just an T-45 with an upgrade kit of some kind. Like a medium Panzer IV H to the support tank Panzer IV A or D, where the T-51 was more like the Panther tank, a whole new concept.
But I doubt anyone at Bethesda really thought about it for more than 2 or 3 min. Maybe even just 30 sec. Like, hey we need some new kick ass PA design in our game! What sounds cool? Hmm T-50? Naw, to simialr to the PA from F1. I know let us call it T-60! Yeah that sounds badass!
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
That's not a big deal. Military designs aren't a linear upgrade path. Maybe whatever designers were working on T-45 managed to work out the kinks and make it really good just as the bombs fell. Heck, maybe the T-45 or 60 and T-51 teams were competing against each other or something.
The T-60 itself is a retcon, that's for sure. Previously, the T-51 was always the most advanced pre-war model. Then poof, better pre-war model.
Same for the fusion cores, the only part of the new PA design that I dislike. There's no reason to their presence either, degradation is a way bigger detterent to extended PA use than the fusion cores you can find half a dozen of in the first hours of play without even looking. I could get the antique T-45 needing batteries, but T-51 and up shouldn't have less autonomy than a TV remote. To balance that they could just have made the three elite suits of armor rarer, and not have the Brotherhood hand you a suit of T-60 after one quest.
I still give props to Bethesda for making Power Armor very useful, feel right, and maintain the iconic looks of the FO1 and FO2 models while making them into armor you can visibly get in and out of. Can't have been very easy.
No, it's not a product in the series, it's a spin-off, just like FoBoS and FoT. So its canonicity is debatable.
All officially produced products in a series are canon, by default, unless otherwise specifically stated.
That is how canon works for literally every game series.
Theinnerfish
Storytelling skeleton
Well if T-51b didn't consume FCs in hours like a t-60 does, than even with lower defenses i would call t-51b more advanced due to it's far superior energy consumption. Alas this is not the case...
Well than Sarah Lyons, Piper and Three Dogs were Vault Dwellers since Shelter is canon...
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Do you really believe Beth cares about something like Canon? Better think again. Their designers, including the beloved Todd, said on different occasion that something like canon should never get in the way of what is fun, or maybe it was Emil, no clue. At least in their eyes it should not get in the way of something.
They don't really care about Fallout as franchise. Not even one inch. But only how much it can be marketed and sold to the masses. That's the only value Fallout has to them. And the Elder Scrolls franchise for that matter as well. It's not a coinsidence that canon is not really playing much of a role in TES either. If Bethesda want's Georgia or New York in their TES game because they think it's fun, than New York will be there. Canon? Consistency? Who cares? Writers are supposed to have fun.
They don't really care about Fallout as franchise. Not even one inch. But only how much it can be marketed and sold to the masses. That's the only value Fallout has to them. And the Elder Scrolls franchise for that matter as well. It's not a coinsidence that canon is not really playing much of a role in TES either. If Bethesda want's Georgia or New York in their TES game because they think it's fun, than New York will be there. Canon? Consistency? Who cares? Writers are supposed to have fun.
Given that Bethesda has spent over a decade consistency reinforcing the metaphysics of TES, and tying all the main quests into it. they obviously do care about canon.
They even make up explanations of why canon seemingly changed.
Uhh nothings actually been stated about the status of New York or Georgia, so they can't really break canon by going to either of those places.
So you would not raise your eyebrows if Todd howard came out tomorrow telling you that TES 6 will play in modern day New York? Or that Fallout 6 will, for example, use a time machine to send the player back to the 17th century of the Fallout world? Even if they offer you an explanation, time rifts, multiple universes, some mumbo-jumbo-deadra/science-magic etc.
Certain things, just don't make sense. Or at least they don't always fitt the setting. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean that you should do it. See Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull, and why it is actually not getting a lot of love.
*Edit
I hate to say it, and I know it sounds smug, but I think a lot of franchises get ruined by what you could see as tourists moving trough it, and people that don't have actually a real grasp of what it means. Some of us here, have a profound understanding of what Fallout is, or what it should be. At least more than you do, Someguy.
I won't claim to actually understand TES or that I really know what's about in detail, I consider my self more of a tourist if anything else. But, the point is, I actually don't have to. The people working on it and making the decisions should though. And I feel, they do a very poor job of of working with the Elder Scrolls material, just as how they do it with Fallout. Not only is the gameplay extremly simplified with each new Bethesda game, but also the plot, narration, quests, dialog, and in some sense canon too. Each new game is diluting the franchise more and more. I mean, even a lot of reviews aknowledge that much, calling it eventually a decent game, but not a good role playing game, even more popular voices like Angry Joe, Total Biscuit and many more. Up to the point where some even say, that it's barely recognizable as a Fallout game.
At this pace Fallout 6 TES 6 might as well just be a Halo/Call of Duty Clone without any skills or perks at all. The gameplay, is definetly heading in that direction ...
This is among other reasons, why some of us take the idea of JET on the east coast as such a big problem, even if it seems to be just a detail. Fallout as franchise simply moves more and more away from what the original idea was. And talking about Ghouls surviving for 200 years, the yield of nuclear bombs are just discussing the symptoms. And in the end not even really relevant. We could overlook even all of those details, if only the core of Fallout, was left untouched. We would not really care about JET or what Ghouls do in a fridge for 200 years.
Point is, the vision of Fallout was not to shower the player in thousands of items with enchanted effects and to end up with a poor mans Borderland. But this is what Fallout has come down to. A game going for instant gratification, serving power fantasies and never ever trying to actually challange the player, either trough the gameplay or the narrative - which is the worse offender here.
Certain things, just don't make sense. Or at least they don't always fitt the setting. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean that you should do it. See Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull, and why it is actually not getting a lot of love.
*Edit
I hate to say it, and I know it sounds smug, but I think a lot of franchises get ruined by what you could see as tourists moving trough it, and people that don't have actually a real grasp of what it means. Some of us here, have a profound understanding of what Fallout is, or what it should be. At least more than you do, Someguy.
I won't claim to actually understand TES or that I really know what's about in detail, I consider my self more of a tourist if anything else. But, the point is, I actually don't have to. The people working on it and making the decisions should though. And I feel, they do a very poor job of of working with the Elder Scrolls material, just as how they do it with Fallout. Not only is the gameplay extremly simplified with each new Bethesda game, but also the plot, narration, quests, dialog, and in some sense canon too. Each new game is diluting the franchise more and more. I mean, even a lot of reviews aknowledge that much, calling it eventually a decent game, but not a good role playing game, even more popular voices like Angry Joe, Total Biscuit and many more. Up to the point where some even say, that it's barely recognizable as a Fallout game.
At this pace Fallout 6 TES 6 might as well just be a Halo/Call of Duty Clone without any skills or perks at all. The gameplay, is definetly heading in that direction ...
This is among other reasons, why some of us take the idea of JET on the east coast as such a big problem, even if it seems to be just a detail. Fallout as franchise simply moves more and more away from what the original idea was. And talking about Ghouls surviving for 200 years, the yield of nuclear bombs are just discussing the symptoms. And in the end not even really relevant. We could overlook even all of those details, if only the core of Fallout, was left untouched. We would not really care about JET or what Ghouls do in a fridge for 200 years.
Point is, the vision of Fallout was not to shower the player in thousands of items with enchanted effects and to end up with a poor mans Borderland. But this is what Fallout has come down to. A game going for instant gratification, serving power fantasies and never ever trying to actually challange the player, either trough the gameplay or the narrative - which is the worse offender here.
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Khannis
Rebuilding America
The fact that the T-60 looks like an upgraded T-45 is exactly what makes me think that it should have been sent to the front lines ASAP, as a stop-gap measure/superior pattern (like the successive models of Shermans or Panzer IVs or what have you in WW2). The T-51, a completely new design, was rushed to take part into the Anchorage reclamation...
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Bethesda has been spending a decade shitting on lore what are you talking about? The good books in Skyrim? Rehashed from Morrowind, I wouldn't expect them to write anything good these days. Explanations? Nah it's usually handwavium . How much are they paying you to say such things?
Khannis
Rebuilding America
The saddest part of it all is that he may actually be doing it for free...
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
I wonder if it is a religion to them? Wait what am I saying? I encounter people calling Toddy boy "Godd Howard", humanity is doomed.