Project Valhalla

VeliV got a little proposition for the plot change
Valhalla military unit( batalion) survived the last war, its commander create from his unit/batalion and the other ppl that survive the war vallhala organization. All was well for some time they set thier main base in some coutry with shore ( best near russians so they can use russians old tankers to swim if some1 ask about technology and resources :P) and started rebuilding viliges/town/city. But after some time something happens ( like dunno radiation clouds starting to move to close or plague of rats :P anyways anything that make them to move ).
And so they send 2 tankers to america to look for some solution or safe spot to stay. Now in their way one of the takers are attacked and one of them is destroyed by enclava other one barley made to shore where its crashed and no longer to use. Vallhala build a little outpost near the tanker. From wasteland wanderers they learn about voult-tec and thier krypts( if u would like to continue this plot of survivors in europe , this would need to make some voultec tech items) they also learn about enclava activity in this regionand so they want revange for thier tanker ( this could add quest for buying enclava things like weapons and armors for valhala weapons and armors) additional to that ther might be a quset to geather scrap and other stuff like super glue to repair thier tanker or/and build some kind of communication tower to comminicate with thier base in europe.
Now player could to that thing and also help them build town out thier outpost big one ( which is needed in f3 since for rivet city to be the biggest town its like lol, arroyo vilige was the same size or maybe even bigger :P)
 
Brother None said:
"which we also share with the Netherlands, Germany and the afrikaans. But I would not say we are that similiar to the boer people..."
That last part made no sense, since the Boers are not separate from the Dutch or Afrikaans people.
Click to expand...
My point was, we are the same people as the boer/afrikaans people, we share the same hertiage long way back. But today our cultures is not the same at all.
 
A lot of haters to the possibilty of the slight change in lore, which isn't necessarily the case.

Impossible for europeans to do a transatlantic voyage because of lack of technology? Plz, even before a certainly italian fella named Columbus decided to do some sailing, the vikings were already setting foot on american soil, also, depending how he makes the story, it's highly improbable that "there isn't anyway" that they couldn't make the travel, hell, they could have found an abandoned oil tanker or tankers, or found some refined oil in, guess what? oil refineries.

Valhala looks too unprobable, I have only three words, "Republic of Dave", size doesn't really matter in the wastelands, all that matters is that those with more firepower rule...

VeliV presented a tip of what looks to be a promising project and a couple of guys decided to nothing short than trash it entirely, way to support the mod community! Unlike a certain few, I hope you guys finish it, and I doubt it would "change fallout lore"
 
kok_warlock said:
A lot of haters to the possibilty of the slight change in lore, which isn't necessarily the case.
Click to expand...

That's the case.

Impossible for europeans to do a transatlantic voyage because of lack of technology? {"plz" bitch-slap me.}, even before a certainly italian fella named Columbus decided to do some sailing, the vikings were already setting foot on american soil, also, depending how he makes the story, it's highly improbable that "there isn't anyway" that they couldn't make the travel, hell, they could have found an abandoned oil tanker or tankers, or found some refined oil in, guess what? oil refineries.
Click to expand...

It's been already proven that ships have a hard time surviving 200 years in operational shape, nautical charts would be unavailable and/or outdated, the post-nuclear ecosystem too damn unstable and most of all, that there'd be anbsolutely no possibility for trans-continental communication.

Valhala looks too unprobable, I have only three words, "Republic of Dave", size doesn't really matter in the wastelands, all that matters is that those with more firepower rule...
Click to expand...

For M'Atra's sake, you're citing Fallout 3 to support your claim? FYI, Fallout 3 isn't reference, Fallout is.

VeliV presented a tip of what looks to be a promising project and a couple of guys decided to nothing short than trash it entirely, way to support the mod community! Unlike a certain few, I hope you guys finish it, and I doubt it would "change fallout lore"
Click to expand...

Stop trolling. VeliV asked for opinions and support and he got it. We point out flawed concepts and he responds in a mature way.
 
kok_warlock said:
VeliV presented a tip of what looks to be a promising project and a couple of guys decided to nothing short than trash it entirely, way to support the mod community! Unlike a certain few, I hope you guys finish it, and I doubt it would "change fallout lore"
Click to expand...

Far from trashed ;) I was actually expecting the welcoming here to be a bit more harsh, but at least until now the feedback has been fairly constructive.

I will post some more pointers later tonight if I have the time (need to do some actual modding as well instead of spending my time arguing about it, lol), and answer to some subjects that has been brought up.
 
I too have a idea for a plot change:

During the civil war in Europe many people decided to flee war torn continent and seek refuge in other parts of the world. One of this places was Iceland and parts of Greenland which took many refugees. The lack of supplies, facilities and resources split the refugees in small factions that fought for crumbs until after years of bloodshed they were all united under a single flag and a new power emerged Valhalla. Although they brought stability, they still had many problems, like very limited resources and technology, they have fusion technology but not the facilities to reproduce it. So leaders decide to expand to neighboring Canada in which they succeed to seize large parts of territory and annex few settlements which opened new areas for expansion and resources gathering, but to nation of Valhalla technology is still a major issue. So it is decided to send a small advance group to scout and create a outpost in the ruins of Washington in search of technology and make a way to further expansion.


Just a thought...
 
kok_warlock said:
A lot of haters to the possibilty of the slight change in lore, which isn't necessarily the case.
Click to expand...

Let's get one thing clear here: this isn't necessarily a case of "right or wrong", it's a simple consideration for VeliV and his team; why do it the hard way if there's a better way?

You can argue up and down about Valhalla, but in the end, why isn't it better to take a more plausible, lore-specific explanation? Why go for the more complex, unlikely stuff if people are offering simpler, more believable alternatives?

This is just the mistake Bethesda made in - say - porting the BoS to DC rather than creating a new technology-based organization there.
 
Brother None said:
Let's get one thing clear here: this isn't necessarily a case of "right or wrong", it's a simple consideration for VeliV and his team; why do it the hard way if there's a better way?
Click to expand...
Well the easy way would be to say "Its my mod and my rules" and not give heed to any of the debate that has been going on. But frankly, that is not what I want.

What I want is to make a good mod that adds some new unique elements to the game with a bit different point of view.

Brother None said:
You can argue up and down about Valhalla, but in the end, why isn't it better to take a more plausible, lore-specific explanation? Why go for the more complex, unlikely stuff if people are offering simpler, more believable alternatives?
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but most of the points that have been discussed here is about "I assume that ..." or based on point of view. At least I haven't noticed any subjects that are clearly conflicting with fallout lore being brought up yet.
 
Actually, I think the main point brough up is "it makes no sense", and I haven't seen any serious counter-arguments that show how it does make sense. I'd say basic common sensism supersedes lore considerations.

And this is mostly tied to bits of the world that were left blank by lore - the Commonwealth of Europe is a big blank spot in Fallout's lore so it's not that hard no to contradict any lore there. That doesn't mean it makes sense to fill up this blank spot with stuff that just doesn't make sense, such as Europe not having fusion technology somehow.
 
Brother None said:
such as Europe not having fusion technology somehow.
Click to expand...

All hail the USA they got everything...poor us in europe...

And god bless america or they nuke them selfs... :)

Any way Valhalla hm isent this reference to Jeremiah tv show?
 
Brother None said:
Actually, I think the main point brough up is "it makes no sense", and I haven't seen any serious counter-arguments that show how it does make sense. I'd say basic common sensism supersedes lore considerations.

And this is mostly tied to bits of the world that were left blank by lore - the Commonwealth of Europe is a big blank spot in Fallout's lore so it's not that hard no to contradict any lore there. That doesn't mean it makes sense to fill up this blank spot with stuff that just doesn't make sense, such as Europe not having fusion technology somehow.
Click to expand...
I am not sure how correct the information in the fallout wikia is, but I have used it as a base for reference. At least it seem to cite a lot form the fallout bible, so I would assume that its quite correct.

Do you have the exact year that when fusion was invented (or even better, when they found the way to "generating electricity through fusing two uranium atoms together" like its said in the wikia).

The first time that Fusion is mentioned in the timeline is the year 2060
Traffic on the streets of the world stops moving. Fuel becomes too precious to waste on automobiles, so alternatives are explored - electric and fusion cars begin to be manufactured, but factories can only make limited amounts while conserving fuel. The US economy teeters on bankruptcy. Pressure on fusion research increases. (mentioned only in the Fallout Bible timeline )
Click to expand...

So I would assume that in the given situation (lack of resources), the manufacturing of applications using the fusion tech began as soon as the way for it to work was invented. Therefore, fusion was invented at 2060, or a bit before.

What is intetresting is that according to the timeline, it was the same year that:
# The Euro-Middle Eastern War ends as the oil fields in the Middle East run dry... there is no longer a goal in the conflict, and both sides are reduced almost to ruin. (mentioned only in the Fallout Bible timeline )
# The European Commonwealth dissolves into quarelling nation states, fighting over the remaining resources. (mentioned in the Fallout 1 intro 40px, the date given only in the Fallout Bible timeline )
Click to expand...
"Fighting over the remaining resources"? That would suggest that they have no other source of power available.

Also, if they are quarelling nation states reduced almost to ruin, I doubt that they could speed up their own fusion tech research in order to catch up with the US? One nation state cannot have enough resources and knowledge to compete in such research with the US. You cant really say that its plausable that US would have somehow lacked so much in research that some fighting nation states could have catched up with them.

Also, someone mentioned importing some fusion cars to Europe? It is clearly stated that these are really wanted stuff in the US, so why would they export them to warzones?

Another quote from the timeline, now the year 2066:

Summer: Adding further insult to the Chinese-American relations, the first crude fusion cell is unveiled, one of the results of the Power Armor project. Devices designed for the fusion cell begin to be manufactured. Incorporating fusion power into the general US infrastructure begins, but the process is too slow to supply power to the regions that need it. Nearly eleven years later, few sections of the United States were supplied with fusion power. (mentioned only in the Fallout Bible timeline )
Click to expand...

Why this would be an insult if the fusion tech was spread all over the world?

Any way Valhalla hm isent this reference to Jeremiah tv show?
Click to expand...
Nope. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla
 
VeliV said:
Do you have the exact year that when fusion was invented (or even better, when they found the way to "generating electricity through fusing two uranium atoms together" like its said in the wikia).
Click to expand...

Nobody has that date, it's not determined in canon. However, even without fusion technology, fission technology is always there as a fallback. As I mentioned in an earlier post, if you want to represent Europe as backward it makes sense to make them fission dependent.

VeliV said:
"Fighting over the remaining resources"? That would suggest that they have no other source of power available.
Click to expand...

No it wouldn't. It would suggest their available resources are not enough to meet the full needs of all countries. It is certainly not directly correlated to energy needs.

As I mentioned before, people often make the logical mistake of thinking crude oil is only needed for energy. This is not the case. Even with your entire energy need supplied, crude oil is vital for almost any industry as a basic manufacturing supply, primarily in plastics.

If they actually have no other source of power, how would they be fighting? With sticks and stones?

VeliV said:
Also, if they are quarelling nation states reduced almost to ruin, I doubt that they could speed up their own fusion tech research in order to catch up with the US?
Click to expand...

Again, that is not how wars work. Wars are an incentive for war-related research, not a halt to them.

Besides, you read over an important point I made earlier: everyone understands fusion theory, all we need is the trick to containing it. If this trick is found, there is no conceivable way of keeping this secret; fusion technology would immediately be available to everyone.

VeliV said:
Also, someone mentioned importing some fusion cars to Europe? It is clearly stated that these are really wanted stuff in the US, so why would they export them to warzones?
Click to expand...

Why would they need to actively be exporting them for this to happen? How would it not be possible for a European to go to the US, buy one and travel back?

VeliV said:
Why this would be an insult if the fusion tech was spread all over the world?
Click to expand...

Because it talks about fusion cells, which is a way of transporting fusion processes in miniature ways. The Micro Fusion Cell is a marvel of technology that I don't think has any actual scientific explanation, and makes advanced application of fusion technology directly into vehicles possible - which is quite important for warfare, but also for infrastructural needs.

It does not really impact the status of fusion plants existing either way.

Also, the fusion technology point is only one sensitive spot in your plot; I'm curious to know how you would explain why the former vault dwellers in the Scandinavian countries would not just migrate and spread out over a large area to maximize agricultural potential (which is what always happens with thin under-equipped people, history shows as much). I'm also curious to hear an explanation for the ship to counter simple arguments on tankers rotting away or navigational knowledge being lost.

But really, it all comes down to a single question: why would you be adverse to taking someone like Grizzly on board to rewrite the backstory of the mod so that it makes more sense?
 
Brother None said:
Because it talks about fusion cells, which is a way of transporting fusion processes in miniature ways. The Micro Fusion Cell is a marvel of technology that I don't think has any actual scientific explanation, and makes advanced application of fusion technology directly into vehicles possible - which is quite important for warfare, but also for infrastructural needs.
Click to expand...
So wouldn't it be possible that they are there for the Fusion Cell technology? That seems quite plausable.


Brother None said:
Also, the fusion technology point is only one sensitive spot in your plot; I'm curious to know how you would explain why the former vault dwellers in the Scandinavian countries would not just migrate and spread out over a large area to maximize agricultural potential (which is what always happens with thin under-equipped people, history shows as much). I'm also curious to hear an explanation for the ship to counter simple arguments on tankers rotting away or navigational knowledge being lost.
Click to expand...
One thing at a time ;)

But how come the people in the US haven't t migrate and spread out over a large area to maximize agricultural potential in the Fallout universe? As far as I can recall, there were very little agricultural things to be found in FO1 and FO2, and none in FO3.

Brother None said:
But really, it all comes down to a single question: why would you be adverse to taking someone like Grizzly on board to rewrite the backstory of the mod so that it makes more sense?
Click to expand...
Not adversed at all.
Grizzly is already contributing to the wiki and we are going over subjects with the backstory ;)
 
VeliV said:
So wouldn't it be possible that they are there for the Fusion Cell technology? That seems quite plausable.
Click to expand...

That who is where for the whatnow? I never had a problem with Valhallaens heading to the US for fusion or any kind of tech if that's your dig (problems with Europeans reaching the US nonwithstanding), I had a problem with this idea that the pre-war Commonwealth would only have gasoline-based vehicles and would somehow have survived without any energy source from 2060-2077, and I dispute the logic of fusion technology being contained to the US wholesale.

VeliV said:
Grizzly is already contributing to the wiki and we are going over subjects with the backstory ;)
Click to expand...

Sexytime!

VeliV said:
But how come the people in the US haven't t migrate and spread out over a large area to maximize agricultural potential in the Fallout universe? As far as I can recall, there were very little agricultural things to be found in FO1 and FO2, and none in FO3.
Click to expand...

Fallout 3's lack of agriculture is pure nonsense and I don't think anyone with half a brain would contest that: the people in DC appear to not need food, which is bullshit.

There was agriculture in both Fallout 1 and 2, it's just not shown. It's discussed at time, especially Brahmin-herding is important since the beasts are well adapted to the desert, and places like Shady Sands survive purely on agriculture and trading food. Remember though that Fallout 1 is a lot closer to the war and it is more logical for people to still be able to survive on scrounging.

Fallout 2's world has inconsistent places that somehow survive without a food source - such as New Reno. Like Fallout 3, it makes no sense.

And who says the population of the US hasn't spread out? Do note that the US lacks an amount of high-yield lands, much of its inlands being desert or inhospitable.
 
Brother None said:
Kavryelh said:
Wow, they say that in the wikia ?
Click to expand...

This page on the Vault said it. Yes, it is incorrect and doesn't appear to be based on anything, so I'll remove it.
Click to expand...
Heh,

I thought that that was the Science! made it possible to fuse two uranium atoms together. Wonder why such info was in the Vault anyway?
 
Well it's a wiki so anyone can put anything on it, and it's been way too busy lately for Ausir to check everything. If something is not sourced on the Vault, just don't believe it, just like with any wiki.

As far as I know, fusion in Fallout is like fusion in our world, with the possible difference of fusion cells existing - which I don't see as plausible as far as real-world science is concerned. I would assume someone with limited knowledge of fusion reactions made that page.
 
Since we got the fusion part somewhat covered, lets move on to another subject.

The cross-atlantic voyage

1st of all, who says that all maps and sea charts are lost? That would basically mean that every library in the Europe would have to be wiped clean, every naval academy destroyed or some sort of other ridiculous scenario. Man has tried to map the land and sea ever since he found a way to do it, so I highly doubt that all of the knowledge of seamanship would be gone from the surface.

On top of that, it is probable that even the European commonwealth had some sort of Vaults. Some of these vaults must have contained some information about seamanship (since its very important for the coastal areas).

About the ship. Yes, corrosion would kill pretty much any ship that is left into the water, but what about European drydocks? I mean, with the given amount of them that we have here, it quite likely that they were still making ships when the bombs dropped around the world. If Valhallans are fortunate enough, they could just finish up some ship that was never completed before the war.

Is there any info about the sea level changes in the Fallout universe BTW?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top