Rags to riches, riches to rags

A

alec

White heterosexual male
Orderite
You know how games usually let you evolve from rags to riches? Like you start out with nothing but a crowbar, but by the end of the game you have a whole arsenal of weaponry at your disposal? Including a portable nuke launcher?
Or how you upgrade your shack to a luxury villa in The Sims? And so on.

Does anyone know of a game where this is completely reversed? Where you start out with everything you could possibly wish for, but by the end of the game your killing foes with your crowbar because that's all you have left?

I was thinking about this and I think this could be just as interesting as what we're used to. You'd really have to think things through: do I use that last grenade to kill these three foes or do I save it for later, 'cause I still have a long way to go? Do I keep my best armour stowed away somewhere so I can pick it up later or do I wear it from the very beginning and hope it doesn't break down before the endgame?

What do you guys think?
 
I played a boardgame like that, trying to recall the name. You start rich and have to lose your money as fast as possible (by betting on horses, the trade market, etc)
 
Never heard of a game that puts you i that situation really, but there are quite a bunch of games which have a "Prison" level where all your weapons are taken from you and you must regain them.

Duke Nukem 3D's 'Death Row' level does this and you have to kick a Pigcop to death before you can get some proper weaponry. :) Half-Life does this too with the 'Residue Processing' level right after you get knocked out by grunts.

Most of the time I hate these sort of levels because it breaks gameplay down and you're put back to a slower pace but when it's done right I have no problem.

I played a boardgame like that, trying to recall the name. You start rich and have to lose your money as fast as possible (by betting on horses, the trade market, etc)
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Is it Go For Broke? Some sort of reverse-Monopoly, I think I have it somewhere.

goforbroke.jpg
 
That's the one, played it years ago.
I think it must be collecting dust at my parents house. Maybe it's time to go and find this game. It was fun playing this with friends while getting drunk secretly . :-)
 
I remember Breakdown on ye olde Xbox gave you a whole bunch of guns but by the end of the game you had to punch the bad guys to death.

Though it was all first-person, even the cutscenes (especially the cutscene where you puke your guts into a toilet).
 
I'd say no. Most people suffer from this horrible thing called "But I might need it later." You'd start out with a giant stockpile of nuclear weapons to shame America and the Soviet Union, and never use one of them, spitting on a giant robot crab because there might a slightly larger, more powerful robotic crab afterwards.
 
I had an idea for a Zelda-esque action RPG, where the hero instead of leveling up, levels down. The justification for this is that the hero starts off the game in the prime of their life, and as the game progresses they age. The game would have to taper off the enemy difficulty to match it, but imagine a game where your attacks do less and less damage. Imagine a final boss fight where the hero is using a cane to walk with. Of course, the perfect ending to this game would be the hero upon vanquishing his final foe, clutches his arm and dies from a heart attack.
 
In sid miers PIRATES! - the 3d remake at least...

while you may start with very little, and build up from there, there is no controlling that your character is starting in the prime of his life, and you will only have so many years sailing before you age to the point you cannot win any more fights.


This is represented by how you look, and how well your timing is in the various timed/reaction mini games.

At harder levels, if you take a lot of beatings (getting hit once ages you even faster!) You may have a very short career, since completeing swordfights becomes impossible.



Another similar game is AGE OF PIRATES, CITY OF ABANDONED SHIPS.

Same thing here, goes by your health state. get beat up a lot, and there is a stat that only goes down, never back up permenently. Its even worse because -1 to that, gives you -1 to all stats, in turn giving -10 to all skills. So take a lot of beatings, and you basicly will have to retire, somewhere down the road, but i doubt anyone plays the game that long anyway.
 
generalissimofurioso said:
I remember Breakdown on ye olde Xbox gave you a whole bunch of guns but by the end of the game you had to punch the bad guys to death.

Though it was all first-person, even the cutscenes (especially the cutscene where you puke your guts into a toilet).
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The end transforms you into a super-human God and you breeze through nearly ALL the levels you had previously been through beating everything to death because you are nigh invincible. I think this is practically the opposite.
 
That actually sounds like a great idea but i can't think of any game that actually implemented it.
 
alec said:
Does anyone know of a game where this is completely reversed? Where you start out with everything you could possibly wish for, but by the end of the game your killing foes with your crowbar because that's all you have left?
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Not really what you were asking for, but many games start from rich, to rag, to riches again.

Like Tachyon the Fringe. You start with pretty damn good ships, get framed, sent to the Fringe, and you start over in the shittiest ship ever. :)


Also not what you asked, but some games make the "standard" weapon the most powerful ingame. Unreal did that by constantly upgrading the lowest weapon, in the end it did insane damage if you got all the upgrades.
 
It has a lot to do with the design. No-one really has come up with any new original... mechanics to support anything like that and still be interesting to play.

Then there's the environment too. It bugs me very much how you even start out in small villages and/or in the middle of nowhere with situations and enemies that are easier to beat. The game mechanics are usually such, that you level up and become stronger and better EQ and so the enemy has to change with you.

It would be awesome though, if you started "in rags" and in an already big location or even the end location, but the situations become more difficult to solve, not the enemies just stronger. Implementing the RPG element in a game like this might be tricky though, but I like to think still do-able.
 
Castlevania: SoTN starts with a riches to rags scenario.

After the brief prologue (where you played Richter who also had pimped out gear), you get to play Alucard (the main character). He starts out with incredible weapons/armor and for the first two minutes or so you're just running through the level one-shotting everything.

Then Death appears, and strips you of your awesome gear, which leaves you to run around punching things to death until you can scrounge up bottom-tier trashy weapons.


I can think of a lot of games that at some point feature you losing all of your weapons, but you always end up going back to carrying an armory in your pockets soon enough.

The only game I can think of that took away your weapons and didn't give them back was Half Life 2... but the turbo gravity gun was by far the most ungodly weapon in the entire game; so I guess that example doesn't work either.


I like the concept of incredibly limited ammo/etc, but that only works if the enemies are equally limited. It's ridiculous when you're playing a game where ammo is scarce and every shot counts, yet enemies frolic about with infinite ammo.
 
That scenario can hardly work, since it will mostly cause frustration. The more you work and spend time with the game, the worse your situation is. That way the only logical solution is to stop playing, since the goal of a game is to reward the player for the time he spent with the game, not punish him. It's like playing Pathological - it's a torture, not pleasure and only few people can withstand it.

Although you could make a game where everything falls apart around you as you progress and the more skilled you are, the more equipment and skill you can retain throughout the game. Or sometihing like that. Anyways it's a very tricky concept and unless you have a very clear vision. lots of money and time to work it out right, it will most likely fail.
 
What if your character was dying of cancer from the beginning of the game and you had to complete your main mission before you died? As the story goes by your condition gets worse and worse and you eventually bite it whether or not you were able to finish. Of course this could make the game rather linear if you make certain parts depend on you being in a certain health state, but if done correctly it could be mostly a puzzle game or even an rpg.
 
In Heavy Rain you start with a nice Ikea-furnished home and then everything goes to shit.
The game is terrible.
 
alec said:
Does anyone know of a game where this is completely reversed? Where you start out with everything you could possibly wish for, but by the end of the game your killing foes with your crowbar because that's all you have left?
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Most tactical shooters will allow you to start a mission with top of the line equipment. But since they limit the number of weapons and ammo you can carry you'll end up downgrading to whatever you can scavenge. Actually most shooters tend to operate on a rags to riches, riches to rags cycle as you find better weapons as you progress but end up using your starting gear as you run out of ammo.

alec said:
I was thinking about this and I think this could be just as interesting as what we're used to. You'd really have to think things through: do I use that last grenade to kill these three foes or do I save it for later, 'cause I still have a long way to go? Do I keep my best armour stowed away somewhere so I can pick it up later or do I wear it from the very beginning and hope it doesn't break down before the endgame?
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The first Stalker game was very much like you describe, since your weapons and armour take damage (and before people modded in repair kits) you often have to decide whether to continue using your damaged equipment or switch to better condition but not as good equipment. And if you do find really good stuff do you use it, store it or sell it.
 
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