Thanks to all for the comments.
A fundamental poor design in the FOT engine that dramatically shapes gameplay is the substitution of the odd "Overwatch" function instead of true reaction fire as traditionally found in most tactical simulation games. This decision was related to the game's "jack of all trades, master of none" approach of providing real time as well as turn-based play. Yet we see Microforte merely chose a bad design, rather than that these divergent modes of play are theoretically incompatible-- for example, X-Com
Apocalypse takes a similar approach, but features genuine reaction fire in turn-based (TB) mode as well as generally satisfying turn-based play in my opinion (except for those little brain-sucking squid dudes
).
I always play in individual turn-based mode (I suspect RasterOps may be using squad turn-based mode, as I never noticed some of the interface issues he mentioned-- though problems are problems, and they should all be fixed if possible). In my view, the key tactic of FOT enemy resistance in TB revolves around facilitating effective enemy use of overwatch mode, since almost every map is based around the player assaulting fixed fortifications of the enemy. In general, to facilitate effective enemy use of overwatch mode the player-characters must be drawn quite close to the enemies. Thus part of my general philosophy in redesigning the weapons was to reduce ranges and increase damage values, allowing the otherwise fairly inept enemy forces their best chance of hurting player-characters who must themselves approach closely to use their own weapons. Broadly speaking, the main effect of increasing weapon ranges is merely to allow the player-characters to use attrition and snipe the enemy without any significant risk of effective counterfire. In my opinion, the TB game is already far too easy.
The number one rule of game design should always be: If it's not fun, forget about it. I think RasterOps is making two separate points starting from a consideration of SMGs:
1) The Redux mod uses weapon values not consistent with real-world behavior of nonfictional weapons
2) Though the Redux mod claims to strive to increase tactical options and weapon choices for the player, in fact at least one entire class of weapons (SMGs) that were formerly useful are now fairly useless.
On both points, RasterOps is largely correct and I agree with his critiques. However, I argue that (1) is a distraction from sound game design even though I appreciate that a sizeable player segment not just of FOT but of military-themed games in general are in fact very concerned with the issue of "realism" and derive a portion of their enjoyment of such games from how closely the game's fiction represents tangible facts. Regarding (2), the issue is related to my comprehensive approach that could not accomodate some details. In my view, the original game contains several large classes of weapons that are quite useless-- pistols, shotguns, melee weapons, and grenades. Pursuant to my general goal of making the game occur at closer-quarters to enhance enemy use of overwatch attacks in turn-based mode, I believe I also made all four of these weapon categories much more important to most styles of play than is the case in the original game. Furthermore, since the latter two categories rely on unique skills (melee and throwing rather than guns), I feel the range of plausibly effective character builds is considerably broadened by this approach. Thus the game is further enhanced, since previously impractical styles of play may now be explored.
Unfortunately, the game engine in my opinion lacks sufficient versatility to support all the play options diverse players would fully enjoy, and we are left with only so many ways to skin a cat. Admittedly, I haven't found an effective way to integrate the SMG category of weapons into my larger model; in my several plays through the mod, I also have not made much use of SMGs. On the other hand, my characters now make liberal use of pistols-- as opposed to the original game, where in numerous playthroughs I never used pistols on any occassion except at Brahmin Woods. My playtests also made heavy use of grenadiers as well as troops armed with shotguns all the way through the game including inside Vault Zero-- which again is something novel for me, as in the past I never would have considered such tactics.
I think the larger question therefore is: which approach provides the greatest entertainment to the greatest number of players? Were the benefits gained by an intentional dilution of SMG relevance worth the cost? This is of course a question for the audience to decide. I'm not committed to any principle or approach except to make the game more fun-- so whatever details that may entail, I'm all for the consensus of players.
I looked through some of my savegames from my latest playthrough, and found I fairly consistently made use of numerous weapons that in the original game I would not have considered as I formerly raced to build an energy-weapons only team. Over the span of the entire game, representative equipment loads for my team were:
Preoria:
Sniper 1-- Hunting Rifle, R11 (.44) revolver
Sniper 2-- Hunting Rifle, Combat Shotgun
Assault 1-- Camden E3 (M4) rifle, Fuller Model 9 (Sig) pistol
Assault 2-- Holt 45 pistol, FR-17 (FN-FAL) rifle
Medic-- Holt 45 pistol, Hunting Rifle
Heavy Weapons-- Camden E36 (SAW), Fuller Model 9 pistol
Coldwater:
Sniper 1--Plasma pistol, MX14 rifle, grenades
Sniper 2-- Jackhammer shotgun, MX14 rifle, Ripper
Assault 1-- Camden E3 rifle, Jackhammer shotgun, Ripper
Assault 2-- Camden E3 rifle, Jackhammer shotgun, grenades
Medic-- Gauss Pistol, Grenade Launcher
HW-- Bronson M2 heavy machine gun, Holt 45 pistol
Cheyenne Mountain:
Sniper-- Gauss rifle, Grenade Launcher
Assault 1-- Pulse Rifle, Jackhammer shotgun, grenades
Assault 2-- Plasma Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Ripper
Assault 3-- Plasma Rifle, Jackhammer shotgun, grenades
Medic-- Pulse pistol, Gauss rifle
HW-- Bronson M2 (DU ammo), Jackhammer shotgun, grenades
My own style of play includes much sneaking around and planting traps, so all of the above characters except the medic and heavy-weapons trooper also made liberal use of land mines and remotely-detonated bombs.
I'm somewhat puzzled by the comment:
RasterOps said:
This is disappointing for many reasons, primarily because I wanted to use the CQB weapons but was too disappointed by their range.
Certainly in Redux SMGs are an odd man out, as opposed to in real life where such weapons fulfill a vital practical need under common tactical circumstances. However with their larger burst sizes, as well as the respectable damage of 10mm (JHP/AP) ammunition, I feel at least the 10mm SMGs are indeed fairly effective throughout most of the game (excluding vs. robots) for
close-quarters combat. Even the 7mm and 8mm SMGs have practical ranges in the mid-20 hexes, which in my opinion begins to stray rather far from what should reasonably be construed as "close quarters." If RasterOps is saying part of his enjoyment of the game is derived from a role-playing element ("I want play an agile team of commandos armed with SMGs") there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am quite literal in my advocacy of the "
Whatever is fun = good game design,
whatever is not fun = bad game design" philosophy, and don't have a commitment to any particular details. However when I think of close-quarters combat in FOT, I tend to think of combat occurring at ranges of less than 20 hexes-- ranges at which all the SMGs are very effective both in single-shot and in burst-fire mode against all but heavily-armored enemies.
In my original notes on weapon revisions, I made the following set of guidelines. Among other matters, I also sought to keep the game's setting in mind-- in the game's timeline, powerful energy-based small arms were developed in the years leading up to the Apocalyse to combat the threat of Power-Armored infantry soldiers against whom traditional bullets of almost any caliber were increasingly ineffective. Furthermore, I felt the distinction between most weapons of similar caliber should be based on magazine capacity and rate of fire rather than range (though range may vary in some cases to reflect quality of manufacture) or damage (a 7mm bullet is 7mm wide and contains X grains of gunpowder regardless of the weapon used to fire it).
Damage:
6mm (5.56mm): 20-35
7mm (.303): 25-40
8mm (7.62mm): 30-45
10mm (9mm): 30-45 (before JHP/AP adjustments)
11mm (.44): 30-50
12mm (.45): 35-50
14mm (.50): 40-60
Melee: 15-80
Shotgun: 20-70
Laser: 40-80
Plasma: 70-120
Pulse: 80-130
Frag Grenade: 50-120
40mm Grenade: 80-120
Rocket: 100-180
I felt these values, which remain largely unchanged in the current version of the mod, were a good compromise between realism (gross damage increases linearly with caliber size) and gameplay (a general increase in all values). Though I understand the position of some designers that damages should approach a constant value, I strongly disagree and feel that variability (for example, "Shotgun = 20-70" rather than "Shotgun = 45") dramatically increases suspense and replayability (in other words, fun). As for realism, combat doesn't occur under the static conditions of a skeet range where each shot impacts a static target-- therefore I feel variablity in damage offers a much better simulation as well. The modest damage of rifle-caliber munitions reflects the reality of modern military tactics-- where the primary concerns of strategists are inducing casualty attrition rather than lethality and limiting the gear-related weight burden of the individual soldier, and training focuses on creating a spatially-oriented "zone of lethality" with clouds of bullets rather than taking aim and firing at individual targets (since US
General Marshall's studies in World War II clearly demonstrated that only a small percentage of battlefield soldiers actually used their weapons in a way likely to inflict harm upon individually identifiable opponents).
Ranges:
Pistol, Shotgun, Grenade (CQB): < 20
SMG: < 30 (burst < 25)
Rifle: < 50 (burst < 35)
Energy Rifle: < 40
Machine Gun: < 25 (burst), < 40 (single)
Again, these values are largely unchanged in the current version of the mod.
AP cost:
Melee: 2 (unfortunately I had to go with 3 here)
Pistol: 3
SMG: 4
Rifle: 5
Sniper Rifle, light machine gun: 6
Heavy Weapon: 8
I feel AP cost should be related to the practical deployment of a given weapon. Unfortunately, the game engine uses preset AP "categories" that preclude the direct individuation of weapon use costs. Since the only way to achieve an AP cost of 8 (barring use of FT Improver) is to utilize a melee-based category, the heaviest weapons (rocket launcher, miniguns, Bronson M2) do not benefit from Fast Shot/Bonus Rate of Fire. Although I would have preferred otherwise, in practice and after testing I now think this a boon to game balance, given the potential damage values of these weapons (except against robots). Several light machine guns (Camden E36, Vostok, etc) remain compliant with Fast Shot, and also now offer a single-shot mode for one less AP than burst-mode. Another oddity is the pistol category-- if a character takes both Fast Shot
and Bonus Rate of Fire, pistols may be used for a mere 1 AP per shot (faster than melee attacks using a bonus perk). Though I'm not happy with this behavior, as mentioned above I was striving to take a larger view of greatest benefit to overall gameplay rather than whether any individual detail is optimal.
In any case, all suggestions for revising or even dramatically altering the weapon mod values are welcome. If the Redux mod doesn't satisfy players, then the mod must change-- otherwise making it publicly available is much ado over nothing. While designing the mod, I feared requiring jarekfall's admirable FT Improver would simply be too confusing to average players, who often have grave difficulty using any sort of modification material. Based on if nothing else long experience in reading discussions on this very forum (my sympathies for MIB88 and killap know no bounds
) about common problems that prompt frustrated would-be players to post questions, I still feel strongly such is the case-- and I am pleased that as far as I can determine everyone who wants to play Redux has found the installation process quite painless. Nonetheless, FT Improver would indeed allow a better treatment of all these AP-cost related issues and perhaps I am wrong on the larger issue. What do others think on this matter?
While we're on the subject of weapons and ammo, are there any players who are gung-ho on heavy exploration of random encounters or playing tough-guy mode using Redux? I use a character with a high outdoorsman skill to avoid random encounters except when I'm in the mood for such (not often), and have always finished Redux with an ample supply of critical types of anti-robot ammunition (pulse grenades, EMP shotgun shells, large energy cells, 40mm grenades). Yet the revised quartermaster list in Redux is (deliberately) rather stingy with such items, and players who frequently indulge in robot random encounters could be left in a very bad position to complete the final missions.
@RasterOps
As TwoEyedYum noted, the game's modding tools aren't able to investigate or resolve many of the problems you raised. Some unfortunate issues I have noted that are likewise hard-coded are:
--Occassional (though sometimes reproducible) bugs leading to duplicated recruits in the recruit pool;
--The ability of any character to "win" at gambling if the player persists in simply pressing the "gamble" button numerous times without putting up any stakes (because of this, fewer npcs are flagged to gamble in Redux);
--The unfortunate method by which burst fire damage is resolved, leading to an artificially decreased effectiveness of all burst fire attacks;
--Unique items found in various missions meant to be removed from play when the player-characters leave the map are not in fact removed if the character holding them is inside a vehicle;
--If the player-characters are kneeling or crawling while entering a vehicle and that vehicle leaves the map, character statistics may become artificially and permanently raised/lowered;
--If the player-characters are in a vehicle, leave a map in turn-based combat mode, and immediately travel to a BOS bunker, the game may become "endlessly stuck" in combat mode and the characters will be practically unable to leave the bunker.
--Numerous Fallout/Fallout 2 perks are available in the game, but for various reasons either do not work or are not germane. I've identified a number of these, but perhaps others remain indistinguished.
--In turn-based combat, a complex bug affects the use of first aid and doctor skills. If the player-character attempting to use either skill has more action points remaining than are required for the skill use, the skill use "seems" to occur but in fact does not-- yet the action points are lost. This cannot be fixed. For example, let's say Jane wants to use a first aid kit, and her action point cost to do so is 8. If Jane has 8 or more available action points, she should kneel/stand or walk a hex to the left then right to reduce her available APs to 7 or less before attempting to use the first aid kit. Otherwise, Jane will appear to use the first aid kit but her turn will "hang" until she takes some other action (perhaps using the first aid kit a second time).
On the matter of stunned characters, if you look at a stunned character's record screen you'll see his or her perception and agility decrease. I always thus thought the primary effect of Stunned was meant to be decreased accuracy (practical range) with weapons rather than decreased mobility. The name of this status could be changed since it's in a text file-- perhaps "Confused" or "Frazzled" would be better status names for the condition?
@Vault Maker
The article linked in your signature looks very interesting, and after a perusal I now plan to read the whole piece. If you're the author, good job!
Endocore
Others effects look more "realistic" too in such case - radiation really hurts, poison can deal significant damage (DPS also based on dealt damage). Some weapons with "knockback" effect can shut down your soldier for 1-3 min or more 
