Reptiles Anyone?

[Crni Vuk]

Yeah no kidding.

If you think snakes are awesome come down to South Carolina and I will take you on a trip through some creeky backwoods. You don't fuck around with water moccasins. Read what you will about them online, from my personal experience they don't startle easily or run away from human contact. They always stand their ground and do that creepy fucking open mouth thing.
They also blend in damn well with the natural surroundings around here so it is easy to step right on top of one without even realizing it.

I always shoot them and will hang the bodies in tree limbs around the creek. Comes from an old Southern wives tale where doing that will ward off the rest of them from coming around. More or less I have just got a few good laughs from scaring the hell out of girlfriends when I take them down to the water.

Maybe something which helps is people realizing that what seperates the humans from the snakes is our ability to use our brain.

I would not hesitate to kill a dangerous animals either if my life is on a stake everyone can get in dangerous situations and then he is forced to act. But if people decide to move in to an area full of crocodiles, snakes, venomous spiders and who knows what else they should not complain latter. Nor should they run around trying to kill them.

It always feels to me like the people which have no issues swimming in areas full of jellyfish and sharks. Yeah. Totally surprising to get injured there isnt it ...

But I don't have any animals. I've got problems already just trying to keep my plants alive, doubt I could be any better with animals. So it's better for both... me and the animal, if I don't have any pets of whatever kind of type.

Uhhh... hell yeah. We have much in common here.

I love animals (most of them). But I could never get my self to even own a cat. Animals come with certain responsibilities. And already plants give me issues ... regardless what I do. They always die. I mean why do they even need watter afterall ? Just joking but it is for me already enough to see all those creatures in TV and the internet.

Except maybe a rock. I bet I could keep a rock alive. Probably.

Eh. I dont know. It heard they can die of loneliness.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

I would not hesitate to kill a dangerous animals either if my life is on a stake everyone can get in dangerous situations and then he is forced to act. But if people decide to move in to an area full of crocodiles, snakes, venomous spiders and who knows what else they should not complain latter. Nor should they run around trying to kill them.

I disagree on this part. One of the things that does set us apart is the ability to use our brain, you are correct. In this case the ability to use our intellect and tools we have created to wipe out certain species and make areas hospitable. It actually works quite well. A few years ago you could walk along the bank of the creeks here and see them slither off into the water almost every time. I actually have to search for them and dig around to find them now, no big ones either, mostly tiny ones that I just shoot and toss in the water.

Rat snakes I generally left alone but their population is dwindling s well around here. Mostly because I let the dogs have their fun with them.



My hatred for snakes aside though, I do love me some iguanas.

Just look at him, he knows hes a bad ass.

 

[Surf Solar]

Nice! I've had a Tokeh (you know, the geckos making noises at night ) and a bearded dragon (what kind of retarded name is that in english? It's "Bartagame" in german). Unfortunately my flat isn't big enough to have both terrarium glasses here so I had to leave them at my parents house. Both are alive, happy and kicking though, so knowing that they are in good hands makes me happy.

blablabla... humans are allowed to kill animals for the lulz... blabla... mostly tiny ones that I just shoot and toss in the water.

You sir, manage to appear more and more like an asshole the more posts one reads of you.. Not sure if one should congratulate you for that though.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

You sir, manage to appear more and more like an asshole the more posts one reads of you.. Not sure if one should congratulate you for that though.

The little ones grow into big ones and are just as venomous as the rest. I don't really think there is some protocol or set of ethics involved in killing snakes where one must wait until they are a certain age to shoot them.

 

[Black Feather]

Wooooooooowwwweeeee...How the..wait...there is one thing I must ask: Say when you're holding a lizard, if it jumps you know where it has gone cos of the size, but with that, if it jumps...you're in a predicament?

Indeed, once one jumped out of their tank the instant i opened it and hid himself under the cupboard. Poor thing was all dusty after we found him. But one shouldn't handle amphibians anyway, they are way more sensitive than reptiles...

 

[Mr Krepe]

Well, I have two beardies, the big one lets me handle it (called Easy Pete cos it just doesn't give a shit about anything), but the runt of the two (smokin joe, because he's really fast and doesn't let you touch him) will as soon as you touch him fly about all over the place, then if you do manage to pick him up he'll fling himself across the room, one too many times he's got himself into somewhere he can't get back out of.

 

[Crni Vuk]

You sir, manage to appear more and more like an asshole the more posts one reads of you.. Not sure if one should congratulate you for that though.

The little ones grow into big ones and are just as venomous as the rest. I don't really think there is some protocol or set of ethics involved in killing snakes where one must wait until they are a certain age to shoot them.

So at some point you express an interest in snakes but on the other side you have no issues with killing their population ?

What kind of person are you that you don't see a reason for humanity to protect animals ? Regardless which one ?

It is this kind of attitude which will get us in deep trouble. It is not like you go around "oh this animal is sooo cute! we should keep it" or "that animal looks like shit! We should shoot them all".

WE are the creatures on this planet with (so far we know) abstract thinking and an intellect which is able to reflect its own actions and shows some reasoning.

WE move on purpose in the habitat of most creatures. And thus it is on us to learn how to coexist with them not the animals with us. Because we actually CAN find ways how to adapt without killing those creatures on purpose.

It is the kind of attitude like shown here which caused the species of wolfs becoming almost extinct in the central of Europe. In Germany you don't have them anymore. Thx to our actions many animals disappear at an alarming rate. Not just at the rain forest but also right outside of our door - Will bees get extinct ?. I would not be surprised if the situaiton is either directly or indirectly related to our actions.

seriously. How can someone explain why it is important to protect animals ? Even the potentially dangerous one. That is like trying to explain someone why you have to breath air to survive.

 

[Zag]

Species suffer from large population booms, and near extinction. In the case of a boom a creature can run off, or deplete it's natural resources in the habitat it resides if it's number is too large. If it's number is too low then natural predators in an ecosystem may hunt a species to near extinction.

Many wild game populations go through a boom. Part's of the year are dedicated to hunting different animals that usually end up on the dinner table, in the freezer, served as a feast, or any other use you can find for it that typically involves eating what you've killed.

It is important to protect animals. When a predator preys on a species because it is easy to obtain they can kill off a number of member's of that said prey. When a predator outnumbers it's prey it becomes harder and harder to find those creatures because the number of deaths is greater than the number of births.

A lot of talk about human intelligence, and tolerance. Understanding your natural surroundings help. Generally killing very young members of an organism is more destructive by destroying the next generation without consideration for the current generation's inability or difficulty to find a mating partner. Studying and recording the number of a species has left is a good way to gauge when you should or should not kill it. Usually gives you a good estimate on whether their numbers have increased or decreased based on data recorded in the past. Species have been introduced to other ecosystems which has caused major problems with species that already existed naturally there. If a creature exists naturally in it's environment they contribute to a chain. Disturbing that chain may lead to predators preying on other forms of life which can correct the problem temporarily. Disturbing this chain may lead to one or more species without a source of nutrition, and thus they will not prosper. This is why many creatures, herbivore, omnivore, or carnivore can eat more than one thing.

I've eaten plenty of things. Including snake, deer, and wild game boar. I've also gotten to eat what I killed (deer). Since they often go through a boom, there are plenty that need to be extinguished in the hope that the deer population does not overrun it's natural habitat.

At one point or another, before humans deer, and other game creatures had other predators. Driving those predators out has reduced their numbers yes. Humans simply took the spot. There's a lot of meat to go around after hunting, so there's a limit to how much you can hunt. Population control isn't that bad.

 

[Korin]

The difference between a deer and a poisonous snake is that snake is far more dangerous than a deer. I'm not saying we should have a snake genocide, I'm just saying if I lived in an area where a lot of cottonmouths idled about on the ground and I was afraid that myself or my child could step on one, I'd be a little less forgiving about their presence.

Cottonmouths particularly have a reputation for being either aggressive or not fleeing (most snakes are scared away by humans). I don't live in an area infested with these types of animals, so I guess I can't really speak. That probably goes for everyone who doesn't have to deal with them on a regular basis.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

Cottonmouths particularly have a reputation for being either aggressive or not fleeing (most snakes are scared away by humans). I don't live in an area infested with these types of animals, so I guess I can't really speak. That probably goes for everyone who doesn't have to deal with them on a regular basis.

You get used to it honestly. I am lucky in the area that I live. It is not swampy or marshy and I have been able to find the areas they stay in and kill them all out. In a large swamp area I imagine it would be virtually impossible to completely wipe them out, just way to much ground to cover. They blend in so damn well in those surrounding. Stretched out in low grass or half submerged in water, they can be damn hard to spot until you are right up on them. Dogs are great for flushing them out, they hate dogs.

They are nasty little devils for sure, I have just never seen the purpose of keeping them alive, they serve no good cause. Most snakes will do everything in their power to get away from you. I have cornered a huge rat snake before and was trying to grab him with my hand right in his face and he was doing everything in his power to get away, he would never strike.

Cottonmouths are a completely different story, even the small ones are virtually fearless. They just coil up and bare the fangs and strike at you when you get close. It is just not worth the risk to even have them around, better off to shoot them on sight.

 

[Ohaimerk]

My dumerils boa. He's a pretty bitchin badass. Strikes everything that moves but has no problem being handled and has remained extremely healthy and strong despite every other snake I've had getting sick or infested with mites or done something retarded like eat a shitload of substrate and end up with splinters all throughout the digestive tract(I'm convinced ball pythons are the village idiots of the reptile kingdom)

 

[Crni Vuk]

At one point or another, before humans deer, and other game creatures had other predators. Driving those predators out has reduced their numbers yes. Humans simply took the spot. There's a lot of meat to go around after hunting, so there's a limit to how much you can hunt. Population control isn't that bad.

Humans didn't took the spot of anything. Thinking so would be foolish.

We are not part of the ecosystem anymore and that is the dangerous part about the whole situation. Once things are fucked up we will be affected as last because we are top of the food chain and such.

The fun part is this. I don't know if this counts for "hunting" in the US as well. But it happens at least here. What I am talking about is overpopulation of deer in the summer times which hunters complain about and try to keep low so those creatures don't damage the forest. Now here comes the fun part. To keep their population "high" they feed those deers in the winter with food! So they actually don't help the deers they keep their population artificially high as if they would not do this they would not have any targets to shoot next year in summer.

I think what is much more likely is that humans (as whole) simply fuck up a things. When ever we "try" to fix something it usually backfires. But most of the time things get simply worse thx to our presence. Now I am not some fanatic eco-fascist. But it is what most of the time simply happens. Thankfully people slowly realise that it might happen sooner or latter that their children will learn about many animals only as recording on TV or stuffed in some museum if things don't get better.

The difference between a deer and a poisonous snake is that snake is far more dangerous than a deer. I'm not saying we should have a snake genocide, I'm just saying if I lived in an area where a lot of cottonmouths idled about on the ground and I was afraid that myself or my child could step on one, I'd be a little less forgiving about their presence.

Cottonmouths particularly have a reputation for being either aggressive or not fleeing (most snakes are scared away by humans). I don't live in an area infested with these types of animals, so I guess I can't really speak. That probably goes for everyone who doesn't have to deal with them on a regular basis.

Humans can chose their habitat. Snakes can not.

I mean even in areas where people coexist next to alligators it works somehow. And those are not known for fleeing from humans either. When you decide to live in some area with dangerous animals then this comes with a certain responsibility. If you try to keep snakes away from your lawn. I don't blame you for this. But As said. You decided to move/stay in that area. And certain issues have to be expected.

 

[Makenshi]

There are a bunch of these guys in my backyard:

They just sunbath there in the morning (I do it too and they don't run from me, which is cool), then go about their business (whatever they are) in the bushes.

I don't consider them as mine, since they live, eat, fuck, breed and die without me taking part in any of it (I'm talking more feeding and counting, not fucking lol). But since we sunbath together, I say they're kinda buddies... or just got used to me and don't run in panic "omg it's a human, runnn".

 

[Mr Krepe]

@Farmerk: I've never had a boa myself, but my brother loves them, he has 3 boas, and a python, their great, they never go to strike, and the largest one (5 foot long) is a pussy, it'll never actually try to bite you and cowers sometimes when you try to handle it...loves couches though, always tries to wriggle into one.

@Makenshi: Wish UK had wild lizards like that, I would love it, we've got a few snake species but it isn't the same for me. The snakes where I live always slither away when you get within three meters.

 

[Zag]

Humans didn't took the spot of anything. Thinking so would be foolish.

Human overpopulation forces people to spread out into other areas. Humans are omnivores, so replacing a predator or predators in an area will increase the likelihood of having a reliable food source. It's not just deer and other wild herbivorous game that get hunted. Humans do exactly what they're meant to do. Like many other mammals and members of the animal kingdom reproduction is essential to survival. Humans reproduce at a much larger rate than many other mammals, and reptiles. Humans have, and can replace a predator in any environment by relocating or killing them for a food source. Bear populations, and wolf populations which was pointed out in here is evidence of that.

Humans can chose their habitat. Snakes can not.

Humans do encroach on other habitats. I agree. As I pointed out though, just like how humans can kill off members of a species in an area they now inhabit for food, they can kill them for fear of their own self, and their children which korindabar is well within the right to do so. Typically snakes don't hunt humans down.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Humans didn't took the spot of anything. Thinking so would be foolish.

Human overpopulation forces people to spread out into other areas. Humans are omnivores, so replacing a predator or predators in an area will increase the likelihood of having a reliable food source. It's not just deer and other wild herbivorous game that get hunted. Humans do exactly what they're meant to do. Like many other mammals and members of the animal kingdom reproduction is essential to survival. Humans reproduce at a much larger rate than many other mammals, and reptiles. Humans have, and can replace a predator in any environment by relocating or killing them for a food source. Bear populations, and wolf populations which was pointed out in here is evidence of that.

Humans can chose their habitat. Snakes can not.

Humans do encroach on other habitats. I agree. As I pointed out though, just like how humans can kill off members of a species in an area they now inhabit for food, they can kill them for fear of their own self, and their children which korindabar is well within the right to do so. Typically snakes don't hunt humans down.

Thing is this: If one predator replaces another one then this is a natural process. If the humans "eliminate" one predator then it is an artifican process and usualy never ends well. It is clear that humans have no conection to the nature anymore. Not in the same sense as animals (hence why Humans are Humans and not Animals!)

Remember how many animals are under protection. Even worse! For killing certain animals you can face very harsh consequences simply because we damaged them already so heavily.

 

[Zag]

Crni Vuk,

Humans are considered a member of the Kingdom of Animalia. So we are still classified as animals. The connection is still very much there. Humans are doing what humans are naturally capable of doing.


What humans do is not special in that what we do is separate from the rest of nature or the universe. Artificial as it's defined: made by humans or caused by humans such as a population of species disappearing or a plastic bag you put your sandwich in is a way to separate human achievement and progress over all the other species that live on Earth. Every process that occurs in reality is at it's very basic level driven by a natural process.

Nature is not bias after all.

 

[Crni Vuk]

yeah we are animals ... indeed.

Last time I remember ants build nuclear weapons.

Bees search for biological weapons.

Foxes killing their brethren because they believe in Islam and not Christianity.

Wait a min.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

We are still technically animals from a biological standpoint. You just have to break down all the fluff to get to the basic order of things. My extermination of certain species in my living vicinity is simply me exercising the natural order of things upon lesser creatures. In this case for a valid point. They are a danger and I am simply making the area safer for myself and my kind. If nature wishes them to continue to exist they will develop some type of coping mechanism. If not they will disappear as millions of others have before, it is the way the world works. The strong survive.

 

[DarthBartus]

yeah we are animals ... indeed.

Last time I remember ants build nuclear weapons.

Bees search for biological weapons.

Foxes killing their brethren because they believe in Islam and not Christianity.

Wait a min.

Lions fight and kill each other when one of them invades other lion's teritory. Wolves fight for leadership in packs. Males of many species kill the young of their species just because they don't carry their genes. Humans fight each other just as animals. We are natural predators. Predators have natural desire to fight and kill. The only thing that differs us from the rest of animals in that matter is fact that we use guns, blades and bombs instead of claws, fangs and teeth.

The strong survive.

The "best fit", not"strong".


Back to the topic: sauropsids stopped being fun when non-avian dinosaurs went extinct. The same is with synapsids (terapsids are AWESOME, mammals are LAME).