Bradylama said:
Who said that stealing items back from the NPC you gave them to was supposed to be fun?
As I said before, they probably weren't meant as packmules, otherwise they would have been made like that.
No shit?
Then why are you still in denial as to how they were made? Do you have some serious idea as to what "NPC" means? It doesn't mean "another Baldur's Gate style fighting packmule". You are the one with contradictions, because you'll say that yes, of course they weren't meant as packmules, but then on the same note, you'll bitch about having to steal from them in order to get the items you want back.
Are you done running in circles, yet?
Yes, and while some NPCs are meant to suck, there's no reason that all of them should suck with burst weapons. It squanders an entire tactical aspect.
Yes, it squanders an entire tactical aspect of having a teammate just as good and competent as you when the setting was a lone wanderer with some following NPCs.
You'll have to forgive me for wanting my games to be FUN, and not mimick the real world.
You're quite right. At this point, I would like to note that with Bethesda getting the Fallout license, you can have all the munchkinish hacks you want in the game to your heart's content. Judging from Morrowind, you'll have more than enough to turn the NPCs into packmules. Have fun.
Besides, your statements are contradictory. "You don't even pay NPCs or give them any real reason why they should be bullet sponges, so I really don't see why you're bitching about how they were designed."
How is that contradictory? On the rare chance that you do give them money to join, they are still following someone across the wasteland, often regardless of what said someone does, and at risk of their life.
What kind of logic is that? What reason does the NPC have to join you? If they joined just because they think you're a great guy, and they brought practically nothing into the situation, what you give them should always be considered yours.
Pardon me, but how does your skewed and poor observation with human behavior have anything to do with NPC design?
NPCs should have a relationship with the Avatar, not blindly follow it into oblivion while maintaining some form of independance.
It's funny that you're actually contradicting yourself, as first you want them to be fighting packmules, and next you say they should have a relationship. Disregarding the shitty Baldur's Gate love-interest scheme in regards to "relationship", the NPCs still do have a relationship. They are people who have decided to follow some wandering nobody in the wasteland, maybe they show they are a good guy, who knows. The wanderer gives them something to defend themselves with, they're going to tend to keep it.
I would also like to point out that in Ultima's setting, since you decide to mention the Avatar, he's an important and legendary figure.
Who are you in Fallout? Thanks for playing, but you're stretching credibility of character design. You are also even more amusing given the designs of .hack. Those had real NPCs, because the game was simulating a MMORPG environment (debatable, but the base mechanics were there, if only they had expanded more upon it so it wouldn't feel so shallow in otther regards) and therefore they should be treated as independently-thinking people. What you gave them, they kept, and you could bater for other items.
It might be up to speed and simple in interface enough for you to enjoy, so give it a whirl. People who play the game apparently don't have a problem understanding the reason why they want to keep the items you give them. Apparently "NPC" in computer games, thanks mostly to BioWare, has become a definition of a packmule that joins you, says some things, and is otherwise a meat shield at your disposal.
I also think that your idea of being able to take anything that you give to an NPC is kind of funny. Your NPCs might have a disagreement with you about that, because hey, THEY AREN'T
YOU. For the last time, learn what NPC means. It doesn't mean someone who joins the group.
Is it so wrong to propose a compromise that would enhance the roleplaying experience? Stop being such an ass.
A compromise that basically ignores, and basically turns them into every other skewed method of "NPC" presentation in BioWare's style. Namely, in being a fighting packmule. If that's what your looking for, might I suggest you go play that and leave the topic of real NPCs to those of us who are able to understand the concept?
Parallel. Look it up sometime if you don't understand the concept. Just because a game might play a bit "easier" because of the interface style, that doesn't mean it is good for the game or the presentation. When you start cutting corners for the Lowest Common Denominator, you really need to ask yourself why you're wasting your time.
That's not what you said. What you said was:
By a lot of the logic have tried in this, it would seem that since Spider-Man 2 for the PC is infinitely more easy to use and has more intuitive controls (including telling you where to web swing), therefore it has a far better interface than the console versions.
Sorry, but...no. No way in hell.
You were comparing a PC interface to a console interface. That wasn't what I was talking about. Obviously it'd be easy to get confused when you use a parallel that isn't applicable to a game designed EXCLUSIVELY for the PC.
No, that WASN'T what I said. All your pathetic understanding could do is see "PC" and "console" and you've managed to grunt something out in reply to those simple topics. I even clarified myself for your benefit and you still try to resemble something single-celled.
Read next time and get a cluepon about NPC and interface design, or don't bother replying. Either that, or I can be really condescending as I tear apart your straw man argument if you would like.
Besides, Spidey 2 was designed around a gamepad control system. Webslinging, as such, was a twitch-based function, and a part of the gameplay itself. Fallout uses a point-and-click control scheme. It's gameplay is set around a turn-based, tactical combat environment. Arguably, an interface that streamlines the system and doesn't waste time implementing the same commands is better than the interface that wastes your time.
Are you done yet, or do we have to wait another couple of pages for the discussion to sink in? I posted a perfect parallel to one of the earlier game issues mentioned, one that would have been quite obvious had you bothered to read what I wrote and didn't immediately assume that I was basing the parallel around twitch gameplay. No, that is not what I wrote, as can easily be verified above. The true irony is that if you did know the basic aspects of the games I made a parallel to, then you'd understand exactly what I was saying. Here's a hint, it has something to do with context menus.
