Russia attacks Ukraine

Crni Vuk said:
Well. It depends who you're talking to of course. But considering the fact how severe the devesation and human loss was on the Soviet Union they do not get as much recognition for it I think. And that has in part to do with the fact that it well ... was the Soviet Union. An authoritarian regime that itself comitted pretty much any attrocity you can imagine. Except for the Holocaust.

The point I want to make though is that probably, outside of Russia, no one "celebrates" their sacrifices, as much as they do. They do not get the respect for it that you would usually expect here. That doesn't mean they get no recognition at all. Of course they do.

But look at it that way. The United States together with Britain was coming from "The West" to Germany and the Soviets from "The East". So they both liberated Europe from the Nazis. Now, how do people in France, Austria, the Netherlands talk about the US/British troops and how do they talk in Poland, Romania and Hungary about the Soviets? The Western Allies have been seen as liberators. The Soviets as another occupant. The post-war view on the Soviets is not very favourable and a large part of Eastern Europe really does hate the Soviets and they do not like todays Russia. And there are reasons for that.
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Yeh, the Poles said the Soviets were just as bad as the Nazi's. Especially under Stalin, who treated the Poles likes garbage.

The British defensive pact with the Poles was supposed to protect it from any aggressor, not just Germany, so it is an absolute shame we could not liberate them until the 90's. I understand that there's no way in hell the western allies could have fought both the Axis and the Soviets, it just sucks to see that the Poles got the short end of the stick under a shitty government that hated their people, no matter who won.

We also can't forget that the Poles successfully won a war against the Soviets from 1919-1921, it's not the first time they had to defend themselves from the Soviets as an aggressor.

A lot of people also seem to just "forget" that the Soviets not only helped Germany invade Poland, but had a treaty with them under the "Molotov-Ribbentrop" pact forged between the foreign ministers of the USSR and Germany. Yet people seem to conveniently leave that part out, along with the fact that the USSR was a major aggressor in the pre-WWII era invading nations like Poland and Finland, when discussing Russia's contributions to the war.

And now you have people today who legitimately think Communism is the answer and that life was better for Eastern Europe under the wing of the USSR. I was arguing with some moron on YouTube today who was trying to tell me a referendum was held was 70 percent of people said life was better under the USSR. He stopped replying when I asked him for a source.
 
To be fair, live in the Soviet Union under Lenin was very different compared to Stalin, who was a real Bitch. Hell Lenin was real garbage and no saint at all and they had a secret police pretty much from the begining and brutally murdered people. But they didn't have the concentration camps known as Gulags yet. And Lenin actually warned his peers about Stalin and he explicitly said, they should NOT give him any serious power. And of course what do those Idiots like Leo Trotzki and the others leading the party do? They give him power. After Stalin died and they sacked shit heads like Beria of which they say Stalin once jokingly called him "My Himmler", things improved in a lot of areas. Even though it was still a very authoritarian system. The system Stalin established with the Gulags though, they never dissapeared completely. And it even continues to be present in todays Russia where it pretty much is a law-less entity where people can suddenly "die" inside it when they are imprisoned. Russia as a nation never managed to really completely shake of authoritarianism and fully democratise. They never went trough a period of liberalisation within their society or actually establish democratic principles, guidlines and the foundation that you need as a democracy. So I am not surprised honestly that there are so many people which feel things have been kinda "better" under a socialist regime.

I mean from a certain point it does make sense. Even Russia is becoming more complex as society. Not to mention they also see what's going on around the world. That Putin has established himself as this glorious figure fighting any kind of "Gender-Crazyness" from homosexuality to protecting "traditional values" is not by accident. And it it even works outside of Russia hence why some on the extreme Right see him as this great statesmen. Where as some leftist see Putin as good figure due to the historical ties with Russia.
In Russia a lot of people probably want back the "old times", you know when they feared this mighty military giant and things have been much simpler. And then you throw in all that nationalism and the fact that Russia never really dealt with their socialist history and all the crimes it caused. People often have this tedency to look back when things become unstable and like "feel" that things have been better. Even if it really wasn't.
 
Crni Vuk said:
To be fair, live in the Soviet Union under Lenin was very different compared to Stalin, who was a real Bitch. Hell Lenin was real garbage and no saint at all and they had a secret police pretty much from the begining and brutally murdered people. But they didn't have the concentration camps known as Gulags yet. And Lenin actually warned his peers about Stalin and he explicitly said, they should NOT give him any serious power. And of course what do those Idiots like Leo Trotzki and the others leading the party do? They give him power. After Stalin died and they sacked shit heads like Beria of which they say Stalin once jokingly called him "My Himmler", things improved in a lot of areas. Even though it was still a very authoritarian system. The system Stalin established with the Gulags though, they never dissapeared completely. And it even continues to be present in todays Russia where it pretty much is a law-less entity where people can suddenly "die" inside it when they are imprisoned. Russia as a nation never managed to really completely shake of authoritarianism and fully democratise. They never went trough a period of liberalisation within their society or actually establish democratic principles, guidlines and the foundation that you need as a democracy. So I am not surprised honestly that there are so many people which feel things have been kinda "better" under a socialist regime.

I mean from a certain point it does make sense. Even Russia is becoming more complex as society. Not to mention they also see what's going on around the world. That Putin has established himself as this glorious figure fighting any kind of "Gender-Crazyness" from homosexuality to protecting "traditional values" is not by accident. And it it even works outside of Russia hence why some on the extreme Right see him as this great statesmen. Where as some leftist see Putin as good figure due to the historical ties with Russia.
In Russia a lot of people probably want back the "old times", you know when they feared this mighty military giant and things have been much simpler. And then you throw in all that nationalism and the fact that Russia never really dealt with their socialist history and all the crimes it caused. People often have this tedency to look back when things become unstable and like "feel" that things have been better. Even if it really wasn't.
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Gentlemen, please do self-control on the amount of snorted Jet, and how many Mentats You take daily, certain things written here can just raise hair on one's neck..
I mean in all seriousness, no sane person can portray Lenin, Stalin, or Trotsky as anything other than the origin of deepest corners of FEV Vats.. those that do not are either uninformed of doings of the abovementioned, or are simply insane or brain-damaged, there is no other way..
 
Mστh said:
I'm just talking about if Americans were showing up everywhere online being belligerent assholes on any site with a topic even remotely related to global politics. Basically e-flagwaving, the patriotic version on e-gangbanging ... and honestly just as ridiculous.
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Toxic Junction ! ' Americans' ( or dipshit trolls ) Whooped and hollered at the videos showing villages being destroyed; Mosques being hit and other footage that found it's way onto the internet.

If an Iranian drone aimed at my local Catholic church missed and took out my flat and all my neighbours, you lot would rejoice saying " They got that commie bastard "
 
TorontoReign said:
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I love how your signature, and the "this claim is disputed by official sources" line shows up right under the pictures of the NPC talking about how great Communism is and how Lenin was some sort of weird Communism demi-god.

It's an unintended but magnificent message. It's perfect, it's just... *chef's kiss*.

Also:

TorontoReign said:
View attachment 24282
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For those who don't know, this is actually a developer joke about the origins of the God Emperor of Mankind from Warhammer 40k.

william dempsey said:
' Americans' ( or dipshit trolls )
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I only see one dipshit around here, Billy. And it isn't me or any of the other posters in this thread, save one.
 
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I blame money. All the problems in this world are because of money.

We should all go back to trading chicken for cheese or something like that.
 
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