Sequel discussion

M

mm85

First time out of the vault
Me too. Most of this community are fans of 1 and 2, and if you didn't know that those assholes at bethesda are a bunch of hacks who would botch the entire franchise by now, wow, are you suffering a bad case of denial. I can understand the Oblivion fans liking it, but Fallout 1 was art. Fallout 2 we began to see that art suffer the fate of sequels. Fallout 3 suffers the same problem that Godfather 3 had when compared to Godfather 1- it might be entertaining, but really, compared to the original masterpieces- crap.
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No, man. It's obvious there are more untallented people than tallented ones. But not all sequels are worse.
examples:
Madmax - Madmax 2
Alien - Aliens
Terminator - Terminator 2
Godfather - Godfather 2
Batman - Batman Returns
and many more

and
Fallout - Fallout 2 - Fallout 3 is like
Godfather - Godfather 2 - Jane Austen's Mafia!
 
That list of "better" sequels is intriguing but it's really a matter of personal taste since I prefer originals over sequels.

It is easy to be a general after the battle is over. Where was Cameron when Ridley Scott and the crew had to create everything in the first place?
 
better? who said that? i said not all sequels are worse. Alien & Terminator are thrillers (ok, s-f thrillers) and their sequels are s-f action movies, but it doesn't mean they are worse.

why i mention s-f movies mostly? first thought.. and i like them, that's all

if fallout 3 was action rpg/fpp game, but still fallout game , then i wouldn't mind playing it with pleasure, but it's not


It is easy to be a general after the battle is over. Where was Cameron when Ridley Scott and the crew had to create everything in the first place?
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well, probably in the same place bethesda was, when Interplay had to create fallout universe.

but cameron succeeded, while bethesda didn't

conclusion is: don't make if you don't know how
 
mm85 said:
Me too. Most of this community are fans of 1 and 2, and if you didn't know that those assholes at bethesda are a bunch of hacks who would botch the entire franchise by now, wow, are you suffering a bad case of denial. I can understand the Oblivion fans liking it, but Fallout 1 was art. Fallout 2 we began to see that art suffer the fate of sequels. Fallout 3 suffers the same problem that Godfather 3 had when compared to Godfather 1- it might be entertaining, but really, compared to the original masterpieces- crap.
Click to expand...

No, man. It's obvious there are more untallented people than tallented ones. But not all sequels are worse.
examples:
Madmax - Madmax 2
Alien - Aliens
Terminator - Terminator 2
Godfather - Godfather 2
Batman - Batman Returns
and many more

and
Fallout - Fallout 2 - Fallout 3 is like
Godfather - Godfather 2 - Jane Austen's Mafia!
Click to expand...

Though interesting that most of those "better" sequels (I love the Alien franchise!) are more then 20 years old ...

*Edit
mm85 said:
It is easy to be a general after the battle is over. Where was Cameron when Ridley Scott and the crew had to create everything in the first place?
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well, probably in the same place bethesda was, when Interplay had to create fallout universe.

but cameron succeeded, while bethesda didn't

conclusion is: don't make if you don't know how
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Definetly not! Without to turn this in to a "alien" discussion. But if one is really interested in the topic he should take his time to watch the Makin of about both movies Alien and Aliens and he will realise that Cameron just thrown in as much work like Ridley scott. The Alien Queen for example was a design by Cameron mainly (in assosication with the Stan Winstley studios) inspired heavily by H.R. Gigers work. Also a lot of the other designs came directly from Cameron (Like the Marine drop ship which he build from a Appache mod kit, or the Sulaco Space ship which he designed from the shape of the pulserifle. As said really watch the making of. Its interesting!) Sadly they did refused to take Giger again on board as how Fox explained "His ideas are to expensive" ... oh well ...

Cameron deserves at least as much credit like Ridley Scott. The part Ridley probably deserves most though is that he managed to double the budged of the first movie after Fox complained work would take to long and the movie would be to expensive and they wanted to change the script. Scott told them if they would insist on to change it he would "quit" work.
 
Brother None said:
Crni Vuk said:
Though interesting that most of those "better" sequels (I love the Alien franchise!) are more then 20 years old ...
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Batman Begins -> The Dark Knight?
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Exceptions prove the rule BN. They PROVE it :p!

*Edit
Though if one really wants to get anal about it, Batman returns is more some kind of remake then a real sequel.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Definetly not! Without to turn this in to a "alien" discussion. But if one is really interested in the topic he should take his time to watch the Makin of about both movies Alien and Aliens and he will realise that Cameron just thrown in as much work like Ridley scott. The Alien Queen for example was a design by Cameron mainly (in assosication with the Stan Winstley studios) inspired heavily by H.R. Gigers work. Also a lot of the other designs came directly from Cameron (Like the Marine drop ship which he build from a Appache mod kit, or the Sulaco Space ship which he designed from the shape of the pulserifle. As said really watch the making of. Its interesting!)
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I don't see the point behind these arguments. So, he invented the queen? I imagine he wasn't inspired by ants then?

Marine dropship and Sulaco spaceship are all part of the "cool" which is a pro-Bethesda approach in case of Fallout - "Enclave are so cool villains! And supermutants too!"

In an alternate (original?) Alien ending the alien possessed ability to speak intelligently. It was imagined as a totally different creature. Then Cameron changed it into a hive killer swarm which is why the franchise plummeted into Dumbville because they ended up with a creature with no personality that is only capable of killing (faster and faster with every sequel). Guess that killed all creativity. Let's see how long will Fallout last.
 
The Gauss Rifle looks fantastic (if it is the GR). And the power armour looks good. The vehicle thing doesn't though. I mean it's nice, but certainly doesn't fit the setting imo.
 
taag said:
In an alternate (original?) Alien ending the alien possessed ability to speak intelligently. It was imagined as a totally different creature. Then Cameron changed it into a hive killer swarm which is why the franchise plummeted into Dumbville because they ended up with a creature with no personality that is only capable of killing (faster and faster with every sequel). Guess that killed all creativity. Let's see how long will Fallout last.
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Say what? Nevertheless Alien was a huge success and is widely renowned as a piece of art.

That the original plot idea was completely re-imagined before the first film was in production stage has nothing to do with Fallout 3 being a console FPS spin-off to an RPG series.

Faithful sequels don't get worse because they're sequels, but because the creators run out of good ideas. Just look at the new StarWars trilogy -- and you can't even blame a big company for having bought and raped the franchise, it was all the original maker's work (though one could argue his LACK of involvement was what made the originals better).
 
IMO Mad Max 2, T2, and Godfather II are great movies (and among the best of the best when it comes to sequels) - but not better than the original
 
Ashmo said:
Say what?
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Here's that alternate ending :mrgreen:

Scott had wanted the Alien to bite off Ripley's head and then make the final log entry in her voice, but the producers vetoed this idea as they believed that the Alien had to die at the end of the film.
 
mm85 said:
Batman - Batman Returns
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While I agree they were both great movies (Micheal Keaton was my favorite Batman) I would not say Batman Returns was better than the first. Jack Nicholson was a perfect fit for the Joker.

I can see personal opinion varying greatly in this as they were both amazing movies.


Also not sure if this one counts but what about the Lord of the Rings films? I know some regard them as one giant movie but if you count them as sequels I would have to say the third was my favorite.

If we are counting sequels of sequels as well than I would throw Army of Darkness on the list. Or definitely Evil Dead 2.


Crni Vuk said:
Though if one really wants to get anal about it, Batman returns is more some kind of remake then a real sequel.
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How in the world is Batman Returns a remake when they directly made reference to the first movie?

Unless I am going completely insane I recall Bruce talking to Selina Kyle while they were having a date and when talking about previous relationships he mentioned a girl who did not work out. An obvious nod to Vicki Vale iirc.

Not to mention the first movie just ended with Batman giving the police the Bat Signal if they ever needed his help.

"Dist. Atty. Harvey Dent: We've received a letter from Batman this morning. 'Please inform the citizens of Gotham that Gotham City has earned a rest from crime. But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city, call me.'

Alexander Knox: Question. How do we call him?

Commissioner Jim Gordon: He gave us a signal.
[Commissioner Gordon activates the Bat Signal] "

And the second movie picks off with Bruce waiting in his mansion when he sees the Bat Signal go up.

Both Burton films were connected, however if you meant Batman Forever (the third) was a "remake" that I could agree with.
 
[PCE said:
el_Prez]IMO Mad Max 2, T2, and Godfather II are great movies (and among the best of the best when it comes to sequels) - but not better than the original
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I agree on godfather. I don't know how anyone can argue that ANY movie surpasses the original.
 
Bal-Sagoth said:
Crni Vuk said:
Though if one really wants to get anal about it, Batman returns is more some kind of remake then a real sequel.
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How in the world is Batman Returns a remake when they directly made reference to the first movie?
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Yes. I apologize my mistake. I have mixed it up with Batman begins now as you mention it you and BN before were of cause right its a sequel. (but not one I have liked though :P [talking about Batman Returns not Batman Begins or the Dark Knight which I have not seen yet )
 
I agree with the list but I think Batman Returns was worse than Batman. That's a matter of personal taste though. I'd also include Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
 
maximaz said:
I agree with the list but I think Batman Returns was worse than Batman. That's a matter of personal taste though. I'd also include Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
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I still think it was a great movie but I agree it was not as good as Batman.

Danny Devito made for an awesome Penguin even if they did go that odd route of making him a deformed mass murdering psychopath instead of just a "gentleman of crime".

What can you say tho? Tim Burton is a very odd man :P.
 
Jaws 3 is better than the original! Serisouly!

The sequel being better or equal than the original usually only works in saga's(classical greek tragedy, correct me if i'm wrong) where the 3 sequels act as the 3 acts of the saga.

Other than that you have the odd director who happens to better possess the creative capacity(or drugs) to translate the original screenplay's vision(or the other way around, where the director ditches the original screenplay's vision for the better) better onto the white screen.

But i think the way the mind works makes it also very hard to let someone view a sequel without feelings of nostalgia or attachement to the previous part of whatever glorious epic.
People really don't like seeing their favourite co-star die off in a series, these feelings of grude might make them go:"The sequel is worse"
BUT then again, this could all be how MY mind works as it comes to hypothetical questions, after all; most sequels are complete crap.
 
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