Sexuality in Fallout: New Vegas

Brother None

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
Orderite
We've seen the subject of New Vegas' approach to sexuality discussed many times before. Some hate it, some love it. Somewhat unsurprisingly, Border House's guest writer likes it, considering the approach of New Vegas that asexuality rather than heterosexuality is the standard to be a positive.<blockquote>The title of this post is probably my favourite coming-out speech ever, and is a quote from Arcade Gannon, a joinable NPC. It’s smoothly integrated into his background, it’s funny, and it’s normal, just like we are – and just like we are so rarely presented in computer games.

Veronica Santangelo’s coming-out is a little less smooth, bound-up as it is in a random question from the PC about whether she has been in love, but she and Cass are both excellent examples of non-straight characters presented without fuss. They are as well-rounded, if not more, than the straight characters and their sexualities are not the only interesting thing about them. The characters are not straight, but not “other”.

The wider world reflects this sense of ordinariness. Characters respond to your comments as a part of everyday life – which, of course, they are – and it is refreshing to see a positive or neutral response to non-straight sexuality rather than a threatening one.

We also see homophobia presented thoughtfully. My male PC flirts with an NCR soldier who says, ruefully, that he would have professional trouble if he had a public relationship with a man, but that if they ever meet out West where they’re less bigoted, something could happen. What impressed me was the feeling that the writers had considered how this minor character’s personal life could affect his professional life. Details and moments like this enhance the inclusivity of the game – and the worldbuilding as a whole.</blockquote>
 
Cass was not heterosexual? doesn't she attempts to ride you in one of the endings but fails to because she was too drunk and there was aanother soldier on your room?
 
Walpknut said:
Cass was not heterosexual? doesn't she attempts to ride you in one of the endings but fails to because she was too drunk and there was aanother soldier on your room?
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If you use Cherchez La Femme on her she says something along the lines of, "After I've had enough to drink I don't care who I end up in bed with." so if anything she's bisexual, but only a drunk bisexual.
 
I really do like how Vegas portrayed different sexualities, especially Arcade as my first character was a confirmed bachelor (I wanted to see what it would do), you would almost miss it half the time.
Then again not many games have a writing standard as high as Obisidians so doubt many others will.
 
Alphadrop said:
I really do like how Vegas portrayed different sexualities, especially Arcade as my first character was a confirmed bachelor (I wanted to see what it would do), you would almost miss it half the time.
Then again not many games have a writing standard as high as Obisidians so doubt many others will.
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Yeah...about that. I did not know Confirmed Bachelor was a euphemism for a homosexual. I thought it meant someone who "confirmed" his "bachelor" status by choice, who hates commitments and instead plays the field, as that is what the words mean on a literal level.

But, yes, I was happy with how "normal" it was for people to be non-straight in this game. They aren't like "OMG DUDE YOUR FAVORITE COMPANION IS GAY! THAT MEANS YOU HAVE TO HATE THEM BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE TAUGHT TO DO IN REAL LIFE!" It's very humbling to see gay and bisexual characters properly and fairly represented in a video game (before most other forms of media, mind you) where they are still "normal" people and not the flamboyant, hysterical, OCD-types we see on TV and in movies.

And, to be fair, I felt BioWare did a decent job with Anders' sexuality. Anders was already a mess of an individual, what with Justice consuming his mind and all, so when he flipped out that your male character didn't return his advances it made sense for him to do so - this is no different than an insecure straight guy flipping out when a hot woman rejects his advances. It was nice to see a heroic, justice-seeking Grey Warden NPC possess every single trait you would expect from a straight, virile protagonist yet maintain his homosexuality. Most gays and bisexuals are mere sidekicks in entertainment, yet here we have one who is admirable by himself, potentially influencing your main character to become more like him.
 
the problem I mainly have with Biowhore games is that they mainly throw this "sexuality" thing right in your face.

I mean it is not so much a problem that you have bisexual characters and even the one or other stereotype (people would be surprised how many actually ARE stereotypes ...). But that literaly every character can be a Bisexual. And that makes the whole idea about romances a farce.

I always liked a realistic approach here. Some people will be fine about gays. Some will hate or just dislike it while others might have trouble with their own sexuality people might see a flirt as complimentary and others as offense. This however requires a good level of writing and a very good awareness about the nuances in the personality of each characters. For example a homophobe might turn out to be a homosexual as well!
 
Crni Vuk said:
the problem I mainly have with Biowhore games is that they mainly throw this "sexuality" thing right in your face.

I mean it is not so much a problem that you have bisexual characters and even the one or other stereotype (people would be surprised how many actually ARE stereotypes ...). But that literaly every character can be a Bisexual. And that makes the whole idea about romances a farce.

I always liked a realistic approach here. Some people will be fine about gays. Some will hate or just dislike it while others might have trouble with their own sexuality people might see a flirt as complimentary and others as offense. This however requires a good level of writing and a very good awareness about the nuances in the personality of each characters. For example a homophobe might turn out to be a homosexual as well!
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To mimic Hollywood, yes, Bioware is throwing sex in your face right at the beginning of every game and with multiple characters. Flirting starts as early as five to ten minutes into DA2.

While it is awesome to be the guy who saves the day and gets the girl (or vice-versa), sometimes you just don't need all of that because it doesn't fit the setting or even your character. Cinematic storytelling in video games should still be based off what the player chooses independently of what the writer's urge the player to do. Every BioWare game in the last five to ten years has been like "sure, you COULD go asexual, but...Bastila/Ashley/Liara/Morrigan/Miranda/Isabella has tittays! And dat ass! Seriously, think about it, brah?"
 
188362me2datassv.jpg


The Kodex really did get it right when the named it Ass Effect.
 
Mapex said:
And, to be fair, I felt BioWare did a decent job with Anders' sexuality. Anders was already a mess of an individual, what with Justice consuming his mind and all, so when he flipped out that your male character didn't return his advances it made sense for him to do so - this is no different than an insecure straight guy flipping out when a hot woman rejects his advances. It was nice to see a heroic, justice-seeking Grey Warden NPC possess every single trait you would expect from a straight, virile protagonist yet maintain his homosexuality. Most gays and bisexuals are mere sidekicks in entertainment, yet here we have one who is admirable by himself, potentially influencing your main character to become more like him.
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See, I disagree. When a character has a sexual identity in a Bioware game, it's pretty explicitly for the purpose of a badly written trashy romance novel grade sub-plot. It's telling that Bioware games get people doing flowcharts to figure out the chemical composition of Tali's sweat, or that they hire writers like Hepler who want to get rid of all that pesky gameplay and have visual novels.

Also, the whole idea that gays are best treated as just straight people who like members of the same sex is kinda homophobic. There is, I think, a real difference between same and mixed gender relationships, just like there's a difference between someone who grows up closeted and someone who doesn't have to hide their sexuality.

What I like about Arcade over Anders is that Anders was just a guy who happened to be bisexual and who, as I understand it, said the same things and did the same things with male and female player-characters. Arcade was a character who was gay, who fit a lot of tropes about what a certain kind of gay man is like, whose sexuality informed his characterization, but he was still an interesting and compelling character.
 
In case anyone is interested, the best...portrayal, I suppose...of sex I've ever seen in a game was in a NWN module called A Dance with Rogues by someone named Valine. I'm not even sure how to describe it except to say that the story is filled with surprisingly honest portrayals of sex without being pornographic, cartoonish, or obsessed. Really good writing, actually.

Naturally it would never work as a commercial game. If you try it out you'll see why.
 
Flirting starts early in DA2? You can romance that Ogre now? Bioware IS rather, erm, insistent about sexuality in their games (Miranda, Isabela, and soon Ashley are walking proofs, sadly) but homosexuality is something they portray rather well if you ask me. The only one who was over the top with it was Zevran, but it was all part of his character, gay or straight. Leliana treated you differently as a woman, and IIRC Fenris is rather insecure about his sexuality, Wade and Herren acted just like an old married couple except they were two guys. I do agree making every single love interest in DA2 bisexual is cheap fanservice, with the filmsy justification that they just happen to be gay/straight whenever Hawke is male/female. And they lost an opportunity to see how time would affect the relashionships in that game, but then again DA2 is even worse than KOTOR2 in terms of wasted possibilities by stupid publisher timelines.

But, on the thread subject, pretty much agreed, New Vegas is probably the best portrayal of homosexuals I have seen in any media. Not campy weirdos, not wimpy crybabies, not victimized jerks, not people trying to be normal (this kind of portrayal is just insulting IMO), just people who happen to be homosexual, not saying it up-front but not hiding it ashamedly either. They also happened to be the only three attractive humans of the whole rag-tag bunch, but hey.
 
Kind portrayals of robo-fetishists might still be a few years off though.

*Please assume the position*
 
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