Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
You both don't think this a bit of a deus ex machina?
I believe that the reason for its use in FO3, is shameless 'mee-too-ism'; and that applies to a lot of things in FO3 besides the bottle caps.
So what lore has Bethesda done gone fucked up?
- Thread starter Mr Fish
- Start date
Antediluvian as Feck
You both don't think this a bit of a deus ex machina?
I believe that the reason for its use in FO3, is shameless 'mee-too-ism'; and that applies to a lot of things in FO3 besides the bottle caps.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
1. Not necessarily, though I don't think it's used anyway.
2. It's hinted at in the Fallout bible. The Redding Gold mines get destroyed by the BOS in the NCR-BOS war, which would cause a brief economic collapse until the NCR can make their own money, which isn't as valued because it doesn't have the factor of being rare or limited.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
And yet neither do bottle caps ~in DC, and in just about any other metropolitan area.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Except it is, to a point. The amount of bottle caps are limited and closed to certain areas.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
How so? These areas are major cities, with major populations; with major sugar habits... Every bar and corner store had beer & soda bottles; recycleries doubtless had bins and bins full of bottle caps... And that's not counting the bottling companies that manufacture bottle caps. They would have automated machines that might spit out 240,000 caps an hour. There would be millions of caps in a major city.
This is why it makes no sense as currency there, (they are plentiful); ~and aside from the fact that they are painful in the pocket, and don't really stack well... not like coins, or bus tokens, arcade & parade doubloons... or actual quarters ~or even Krugerrands from some of the safety deposit banks, or currency exchanges.
Benjamin Franklin Silver ½ Dollars?
The Hub was out in the middle of nowhere; and it's thought that the water merchants began paying caravans in water bottle caps; backed up [by them, for trade] with liters of water. The caps in FO3 are backed by no one, and may as well be pistachio shells or maple leaves.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
True, but keep in mind that these huge amounts of bottle caps are limited to specific areas. My main point however is that bottle caps travel... basically, there's no centered production of bottle caps meaning that once they leave an area by a merchant there won't be any in that same area until another merchant with bottle caps arrives. So while there would be tons of bottle caps in the beginning, after a while the amount of caps in a single area would be depleted and making them valuable. To make money you have to trade and go to other places, which is the entire reason why gold is valuable. It's hard to manufacture it in massive amounts.
Does this make sense or do I have to explain it better?
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Can you explain why they would use sharp tin instead of minted coin? 
*(and for that matter not ingots instead potato sacks full of caps.)
**This is meant rhetorically of course. There is no explanation save writer's prerogative... but that isn't enough to have it make sense.
The only reason FO3 & FO4(?) use bottle caps, is brand mimicry. NV (as was mentioned) is set in an area with the history of first use, and so it stands that if they reeeally wanted to retcon Fallout 2, they had at least a half leg to stand on.
*(and for that matter not ingots instead potato sacks full of caps.)
**This is meant rhetorically of course. There is no explanation save writer's prerogative... but that isn't enough to have it make sense.
The only reason FO3 & FO4(?) use bottle caps, is brand mimicry. NV (as was mentioned) is set in an area with the history of first use, and so it stands that if they reeeally wanted to retcon Fallout 2, they had at least a half leg to stand on.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
Because gold coins were rarely used... paper notes were more commonly used in Pre-War America.Can you explain why they would use sharp tin instead of minted coin?
*(and for that matter not ingots instead potato sacks full of caps.)
**This is meant rhetorically of course. There is no explanation save writer's prerogative... but that isn't enough to have it make sense.
The only reason FO3 & FO4(?) use bottle caps, is brand mimicry. NV (as was mentioned) is set in an area with the history of first use, and so it stands that if they reeeally wanted to retcon Fallout 2, they had at least a half leg to stand on.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Didn't things cost less than a dollar? 10 cent's for bread, a nickel soda-pop?
Sure they had coins, and they had bus tokens ~a custom coin in limited supply, but enough for a city. Anything... poker chips, Checker & Backgammon pieces, pennies... Almost anything of a similar size and durability is preferable to die-cut serrated edged bottle caps.
Sure they had coins, and they had bus tokens ~a custom coin in limited supply, but enough for a city. Anything... poker chips, Checker & Backgammon pieces, pennies... Almost anything of a similar size and durability is preferable to die-cut serrated edged bottle caps.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Remember what I said about travelling? Bus tokens are even more rarer then bottle caps, meaning that if a person leaves with a large supply (merchants) there's very little chance that kind of money will return.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
It's true to a point, but no caravan [much less a lone merchant] is going to leave the city with a such significant hoard that it affects their economy; and I'd think that true of even a thousand traveling merchants that left with their pockets filled with bus tokens.
*BTW, I was always in favor of there being a direct link between stealth penalties, and the number of loose bottle caps that the PC had on them.
*BTW, I was always in favor of there being a direct link between stealth penalties, and the number of loose bottle caps that the PC had on them.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Actually that reminds me of a second problem. Just how many bus tokens will you find in a city bombed to shit, while how many bus tokens would you find in an untouched small rural town?
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Redding used scrips, and so might any small town... with what might amount to a company store. One wouldn't need bus tokens (or caps).
*I remember some satirical story about D&D style adventurers coming into town with chests of looted gold, and ruining the local economy... sending prices sky high, and then leaving on their way to some next unsuspecting town.
*I remember some satirical story about D&D style adventurers coming into town with chests of looted gold, and ruining the local economy... sending prices sky high, and then leaving on their way to some next unsuspecting town.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
True, but keep in mind that Fallout 1 and 2 has limited usage of water caps. A lot of trading uses bartering.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
And FO3 didn't use bartering at all. In Fallout, the PC might have an item that cost more than the town had in their collective pockets, or just really needed rad-away, and would take it at a loss... But in FO3, all transactions were cap for cap. One could not even trade an item for an item; they were converted to caps.
In Fallout, the UI was a wooden table ~a trading post; bring what you've got to the table for trade. FO3 had a catalog of names and cost assessments.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Yeah it was stupid, which is why Fallout 1 and 2 has a better economic system in terms of gameplay.
Totally offtopic... but:
I once started to make a mod for TTW that would introduce coins into the wastes. Including ancient unique ones as collector items.
.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
I think bartering is more realistic and unless there's a centralized group supporting coins... oh as in more of a random item mod?Totally offtopic... but:
I once started to make a mod for TTW that would introduce coins into the wastes. Including ancient unique ones as collector items.
But now it's all on hold because I have no machine to keep working on it
Collector items... Make a numismatics' wet dream
.I thought I would start spreading jewels and gold stuff around because I like "shinies"
then I thought I should make some coin for the Antique Lincoln coin collection we can find in some Museum because they look horrible ingame:
Then I thought I could make actual pennies and dollar coins or whatever coins the USA use. And allow the player to break park meters, phone booths, eat-o-tronics, nuka cola vending machines, etc, to get coins.
Then we could use coins to craft custom stuff (like for coin mines which is a different kind of bottlecap mine). I would also make it so the player could only open Pulowski Preservation shelters if they used a coin, etc.
My projects always spiral out of control in the ideas department...
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Very nice work.
I had a similar project in mind myself once, but I only got as far as making the coin.
I put mini-guns in the eagle's talons; as the alternate Earth's government symbol.
This was a commemorative coin... with just the right amount of bad taste.
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