So what lore has Bethesda done gone fucked up?

[Crni Vuk]

Yes, it is insignificant, it is a small detail and totally ridiculous. But that's not the point. That's totally irrelevant. Hence why the Pip-Boy makes such a good argument. It shows more then anything else, where the problem is. A gross missunderstanding (either willingly or unwillingly) by Bethesda what Fallout is about.

I mean when you compare Fallout 4 to the previous games, even to Fallout 3(!), you see how more and more the icons and graphics of Fallout takes over, where as the core concept behind Fallout completely dissapeared. Fallout 4 barely identifies as RPG anymore! Where as the "old" world and Fallout icons like the Vault boy are totally overepresented and slapped at everything in Fallout 4.

Kinda like where you take a Veggie patty and throw a sticker on it, tastes and looks 100% like the real thing! But everyone with a love for meat wouldn't even touch it with a stick.

I KNOW I'm going to get flak for this but aside from the more egregious breaches in lore (T-60 Power Armor, Jet being pre-war, FEV is everywhere, etc) everything else just seems like really insignificant stuff that can be glossed over or explained away/retconned. Sure you can argue that they're stupid or don't make sense, but at the end of the day they're pretty harmless compared to something like pre-war Jet which has an indisputable post-war origin.

 

[mithrap]

I KNOW I'm going to get flak for this but aside from the more egregious breaches in lore (T-60 Power Armor, Jet being pre-war, FEV is everywhere, etc) everything else just seems like really insignificant stuff that can be glossed over or explained away/retconned. Sure you can argue that they're stupid or don't make sense, but at the end of the day they're pretty harmless compared to something like pre-war Jet which has an indisputable post-war origin.

The thing is, nobody would mind for the usual, inevitable retcons here and there. Sure, we would bitch a bit about it, but it's only because we would bitch if we got hunged with an old rope. Doesn't mean we wouldn't appreciate the game, in the end. Hell, Mrs.Bishop says she was exiled because of her Jet addiction, if I remember correctly, and that doesn't fit the timeline at all. But there's a difference between the inevitable mistakes with such big games, and what we now have with the current state of the franchise.

It's about consistency, more than about little retcons and mistakes from the writer. Every game has its writing flaws, but every sequel is supposed to keep the standard established by its own foundations. It's about respecting your own product, and your audience (why dumbing down anything ? The market for mature titles is actually bigger than the console, casual one. Remember "The last of us" ? Console exclusive. Destroyed all AAA titles for a full year. Same could be said for Metro 2033, Mafia, Dishonored etc.). If the story demands to retcon something, alright. If nothing demands a retcon, then, it's hard to look away and roll with it. They could have invented a drug, said it was a jet counterfeit from the Ronto drug labs and voila. Done. We have a reason why it's in the wasteland, and it's fine.

Every single writing problem with Fallout 4 could have been fixed by one single proof reader, and none would have required to change any existing asset, or even the basics of the storyline. Which is exactly the problem : it wasn't done, either because the devs were lazy, or because they considered that it would have been a waste of money. Either case, it shows a lack of respect, wether it is for the franchise, or for the audience.

 

[Lucas9]

I KNOW I'm going to get flak for this but aside from the more egregious breaches in lore (T-60 Power Armor, Jet being pre-war, FEV is everywhere, etc) everything else just seems like really insignificant stuff that can be glossed over or explained away/retconned. Sure you can argue that they're stupid or don't make sense, but at the end of the day they're pretty harmless compared to something like pre-war Jet which has an indisputable post-war origin.

Personally any retcon is significant for me, mostly because it is retconned for the silliest of reasons.

Expanding on the lore as long as it doesn't contradict established canon: more than fine.
Retcon to fix inconsistencies in the lore: fine.
Retcon to change things in the lore just because: not fine.

A retcon has effects, some barely noticeable, some incredibly so: ghouls that don't need to drink to survive means we could have waltzed into Necropolis and demanded for a water chip, and they would have agreed.

Changing lore for the sake of changing lore is the worst offense I can think of, it's literally "I changed it because I like it better that way".

The Vault boy is meant to be a 'Vault Dweller's Survival Guide' of sorts; he's in educational videos and everything. That's why he's on the SPECIAL attributes, skills and perks; he's meant to be a visual explanation of what those do.

I don't exactly mind the Pip-Boy receiving an upgrade; the old one was terrible to navigate (though the new one isn't much better). Fallout 3 even explains it as being a Vault-Tec exclusive as opposed to the older one, so I can believe the mascot being done away with; I just wish they'd acknowledged the older model at some stage, so it felt less like a retcon.

I'm okay with Beth expanding the lore, and this is how it should have been handled in Fallout 3, IMO:

- Vaults were equipped as they were built.
- The first Vaults got older model Pip-Boys, the ones with the red-haired boy.
- Newer Vaults got more advanced tech and Pip-Boys, made by RobCo and Vault-Tec, with the Vault Boy as its signature mascot.

The issue still remains that it is something that should have been said in Fallout 3, not in a Fallout 4 DLC, because now it means Bethesda acknowledges it fucked up.

 

[Earth]

It's safe to assume that Bethesda just fucked up and didn't realise that Vault Boy and Pip-Boy were different mascots.

It sucks because I always liked Pip-Boy more. Has a weird elf-spaceman look to him.

 

[Brivoo]

The issue still remains that it is something that should have been said in Fallout 3, not in a Fallout 4 DLC, because now it means Bethesda acknowledges it fucked up.

Do they? I've only watched Many A True Nerd play the DLC, and the only thing I took notice of was that it includes the Vault door from the first two Fallouts as a pleaceable piece (presumably as a homage).

I'm not sure what they're trying to do with the DLC; a lot of the workshop content is clearly not meant to be canonical, but Vault 88 apparently is, which would include its various workshops and quests as well.

 

[FreedomStalker]

But sadly this is something the Bethesda fanbase will never understand, because to them "the older games are outdated".

The people who consider these games to be "outdated" have really shitty taste and it's depressing that these people are my fellow gamers nowadays.

 

[FreedomStalker]

Meanwhile in Fallout 3 and 4 they literally beat you over the head with "GHOULS ARE A STAND-IN FOR MINORITIES IN AMERICA". I mean, for fuck's sake, every time Three Dog goes "And remember, Ghouls are people too" and immediately after says "Except the feral ones, shoot those on sight" I have to roll my eyes because it destroys the whole message first of all, and second of all, the only quest where you really help ghouls that are kinda being oppressed in Tenpenny Towers, the ghouls end up killing everyone anyway no matter what you do, which, in my opinion, would make anyone distrust ghouls quite a lot if they didn't before. It's just a convoluted mess, ESPECIALLY when fucking Three Dog chastises you for killing the ghouls even though we, the player, know the ghouls were planning to kill everyone in that tower. And when you DO let the Ghouls kill everyone in the tower, Three Dog's just like "Oh well, they were stuck up rich people anyway. Glad they're dead." Goddamn hypocrite. I'm sorry but that quest pisses me off, a lot.

Three Dog is annoying. And he is really selfish too considering he is only willing to help you find your father after you go on a dangerous mission for him. But most of the people in Tenpenny Tower are scum. So of course, Three Dog is not going to feel sorry for them.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

The Vault Boy/Pip-Boy stuff is fairly minor in my opinion.
It's just there.
In all honesty, I don't have much of an issue with the Vault Boy stuff.

I take issue with the whole unself-awarness that Bethesda has, with them whoring the Vault Boy like the dirty little slut he is.
In their bid to cash in in the Vault Boy craze, they've in turn become Vault Tech.

Well the Vault Tec salesman you meet in the beginning of Fallout 4 does have an uncanny resemblance to their leader.

"Sign up for Vault entrance today! It just works!" then you get into the vault and it works about as well as Fallout 4 does as a Fallout game. Which is to say, not at all.

 

[Operation Wignut]

Love this thread. After playing the first 2 games as a young teen, I abandoned 3 almost immediately after purchase and didn't pick up the series again until I heard great things about NV. Never realized there was still an active community supporting the originals, great to see.

Anyways, I saw someone say something similar in this thread, but the entire design of the bottle for Nuka-Cola changed from 3 to 4. Consider the amount of importance placed on Nuka-Cola's popularity pre-war, fans could tell the change in ingredients by taste, and disagreement between posters in 3 and 4 over what shape the bottles are. If Nuka-Cola was popular enough to get a THEME PARK (Bethesda also literally made a theme park with their new DLC, lol), how is this possible? It's not regional, because 3 is in the same area as 4. There's no mention of locally-exclusive bottles in the Nuka-Cola factory in 3, either, as far as I know.

Also, 4's intro has a Nuka-Cola even though it takes place in WW2. Bethesda is really trying to make EVERYTHING pre-war. (left hand bottom corner)

 

[Izak]

About the differently styled bottles, could there be two styles of Nuka-Cola? Coca-Cola has at least two differently styled bottles.

There's no mention of locally-exclusive bottles in the Nuka-Cola factory in 3, either, as far as I know.

This seems to be a mistake Bethesda keeps on making. Bethesda have also, from what I can remember, failed to address the blue Nuka-Cola bottles and the older pip-boys from 1&2; it's like they don't think the designs of objects matter, it's quite grating.

That image doesn't even use the bottle from Fallout 4.

 

[Gizmojunk]

it's like they don't think the designs of objects matter, it's quite grating.

This was equally and obviously the case with Mr.Handy robots as well.

*I always thought Nuka~Cola should have been green; like Coca~Cola is, before they add the red dye.

Spoiler

But Blue looks good.

 

[Operation Wignut]

Bethesda have also, from what I can remember, failed to address the blue Nuka-Cola bottles and the older pip-boys from 1&2; it's like they don't think the designs of objects matter, it's quite grating.

From the wikia:

The widely known dazzling blue bottle color was adopted as standard in 2052, after market research programs indicated that the blue color was the favorite in 86 people out of 100 polled.

As far as the Pip-Boys go, as well as the entire mascot they erased...

I, uh.

I got nothin'.

 

[Risewild]

Love this thread. After playing the first 2 games as a young teen, I abandoned 3 almost immediately after purchase and didn't pick up the series again until I heard great things about NV. Never realized there was still an active community supporting the originals, great to see.

Anyways, I saw someone say something similar in this thread, but the entire design of the bottle for Nuka-Cola changed from 3 to 4. Consider the amount of importance placed on Nuka-Cola's popularity pre-war, fans could tell the change in ingredients by taste, and disagreement between posters in 3 and 4 over what shape the bottles are. If Nuka-Cola was popular enough to get a THEME PARK (Bethesda also literally made a theme park with their new DLC, lol), how is this possible? It's not regional, because 3 is in the same area as 4. There's no mention of locally-exclusive bottles in the Nuka-Cola factory in 3, either, as far as I know.

Also, 4's intro has a Nuka-Cola even though it takes place in WW2. Bethesda is really trying to make EVERYTHING pre-war. (left hand bottom corner)

That bottle was just a reused E3 Fallout 3 Promotional Nuka Cola Bottle:

Bethesda does love to reuse assets I guess .

 

[Operation Wignut]

That bottle was just a reused E3 Fallout 3 Promotional Nuka Cola Bottle

...And they had another Nuka-Cola promo with Jones soda. Quantum, if I remember. It was after the announcement for FO4. Wow...

"Bethesda receives yet another award this year, this time for being environmentally-friendly. To date, they have recycled over an entire franchise-worth of material!"

 

[Gizmojunk]

And they had another Nuka-Cola promo with Jones soda.

This [specifically with the Jones Soda co.] was something that I repeatedly suggested for years in my posts on the bethsoft forums; first as a possible extra for the FO3 collector's edition, and later for the FO:NV collector's edition.

 

[Black Angel]

This is something I was always confused about even before Bethesda bought the Fallout IP.
Let's be honest, the Pip-Boy 2000 has that mascot red hair boy on it, but anywhere else it shows the Vault Boy instead (and this is in the old games). Literally the only time it shows the red hair one in on the Pip-Boy surface, then if you go into the actual Pip-Boy screens (Perks, Karma, Skills, SPECIAL, etc) it is only depicted Vault Boy .

Back in the day that really messed up my OCD, but then I tried to reach a logical reason for it to be like that (so I wouldn't get frustrated by my OCD ) and thought that Vault Boy is the Vault Tec mascot and that red haired character is the Pip-Boy's mascot (probably even called Pip-Boy himself). This is of course all made up by me, the lore doesn't provide any base for my reasoning. But oh boy, it did calmed my OCD a lot!

Did some of you Old Bloods also somehow confuse between the Pip-Boy and the Vault-Boy? I personally thought pressing C button that brings up the interface for SPECIAL-Skills-Perks-Karma-Reputation aren't a page from the Pip-Boy, like the Inventory, while only the P button brings up Pip-Boy interface.

 

[Operation Wignut]

This [specifically with the Jones Soda co.] was something that I repeatedly suggested for years in my posts on the bethsoft forums; first as a possible extra for the FO3 collector's edition, and later for the FO:NV collector's edition.

To be honest, I DID like the soda, I'm pretty sure. But Jones Soda is always good! Even Bethesda can't screw that up.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Did some of you Old Bloods also somehow confuse between the Pip-Boy and the Vault-Boy?

Everything in the Fallout 1 & 2 UI system, is purposely designed to look like a found (or re-purposed) machine from the game world. The box cover of the game was meant to look like a school lunch box. The manual of the first game, was a spiral bound booklet, made to appear like a Vault orientation guide; the kind (presumably) issued to Vault residents; and it included censored passages, covered over by the Overseer.

Pip Boy is the RobCo mascot for their Pip-Boy product; while Vault Boy doesn't even exist in the game world ~except [unfortunately] in FO:Tactics. The Vault Boy was a parody depiction of the Monopoly cards.

Spoiler

... Until Bethesda screwed it all up.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

Did some of you Old Bloods also somehow confuse between the Pip-Boy and the Vault-Boy?

A lot of people new to the franchise call the new one Pip-Boy in confusion with the UI device. I'll have to tell them to keep calling him that way

Maybe this is becouse in Spain, Fallout isn't that popular and people doesn't usually bother to pronounce English right
Falowt?

 

[Lucas9]

Maybe this is becouse in Spain, Fallout isn't that popular and people doesn't usually bother to pronounce English right
Falowt?

Lol. Until recently, I literally pronunced it "Falout", then switched to the correct "Folaut" pronunciation.

Anyhow, regarding Nuka-Cola: the switch from blue to black is a retcon, no doubt. The switch from one bottle design to another is just typical redesigns we see everywhere in gaming.