So why did Chris want the wasteland nuked in lonesome road at the end of it?

Nuking the West Coast to keep having hard post-apocalypse stories there seems just as short minded and unnecessary as bethesda's obsession with the East Coast. If you don't like the idea of exploring a post-post apocalyptic society (which personally is far more unique and interesting than Mad Max the Videogame #231 imo) you have an entire continent of untouched wasteland to play with. You could set it somewhere on the fringes of the established powers borders. If you're like bethesda and have a compulsion to reuse iconic imagery and factions from previous games they can play a role in the new frontier while still leaving room for new stuff. So basically I just found a roundabout way to say do Fallout: New Vegas again :ok:
 
KingArthur said:
@Eshanas I understand that Lonesome Road was arguably the most divisive DLC next to OWB, but isn’t that... really, really, REALLY dumbing down the messages of Lonesome Road?

You know, the idea that one person can start a movement that becomes a community, that can then be swept away by cruel fate? The idea of inevitability/history repeating that the tunnelers and the nukes represent? All that shit?

What you said is literally just taking everything at face value. Hell, not even, considering that what all of these things represent is all but laid out by Ulysses (especially the first one).
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Simply put no. Any notion that a society NEEDS to be destroyed for its sins, at least by human hands, is monstrous, but at the very least flawed. I'll be blunt: to really provide the best outcome, the Courier needs to be good, pragmatic and integrated into the power structure of the victor. NCR is repeating mistakes because these are systematic flaws of any form of modern government. The pre-war United States did not deserve to be destroyed, nor did China, as divorced from their respective regimes.

If you don't understand apocalypses as avoidable tragedies, you miss the point of post-apocalyptic stories. Besides Big MT, the Enclave, Dean Domino, all should stand as thematic proof that destroying a civilization does NOT cause the tyrants and the villans to be held to account.

Fallout has always been about putting the pieces back together, panting trees you yourself will never sit under in the shade. It's a generational struggle. To nuke it back to Fallout 1 is to spit in the face of everyone who ever thought of these games as anything other than an evening entertainment.

I never liked Avellone, I hated his Fallout Bible, I hated the Vault Experiments, and Jesus Christ do I hate Ulysses. For any talent he has, he is and always has been a Nietzschean loser. Putting about back into a Mad Max shooting gallery is less pathetic than the notion one can create their own values, particularly with childish temper tantrums the world does work the way you want.
 
TorontoReign said:
Sure, but how many cowboys do you have in Maryland friend?
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You've never seen the dawn of the West movies have you? Drums on the Mohawk, Last of the Mohicans, and my semi-guilty pleasure Almost Heroes. You can set a western just about anywhere where there's a frontier: you could have a Western staring Cossacks fighting Tartars, you could have a western set in Post World War I Eastern Europe. The key to a western is the heroic individual and a lack of the state's monopoly on violence. Hell, it would be hard, but you could effectively make Conan film western or Roman colonists coming to north Africa to resettle the area around Carthage or founding Londinium in the first centiury.
 
Charwo said:
You've never seen the dawn of the West movies have you? Drums on the Mohawk, Last of the Mohicans, and my semi-guilty pleasure Almost Heroes. You can set a western just about anywhere where there's a frontier: you could have a Western staring Cossacks fighting Tartars, you could have a western set in Post World War I Eastern Europe. The key to a western is the heroic individual and a lack of the state's monopoly on violence. Hell, it would be hard, but you could effectively make Conan film western or Roman colonists coming to north Africa to resettle the area around Carthage or founding Londinium in the first centiury.
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Oh but those guys aren't really cowboys. They are more like pioneers. I can dig it though.
 
Charwo said:
Simply put no. Any notion that a society NEEDS to be destroyed for its sins, at least by human hands, is monstrous, but at the very least flawed. I'll be blunt: to really provide the best outcome, the Courier needs to be good, pragmatic and integrated into the power structure of the victor. NCR is repeating mistakes because these are systematic flaws of any form of modern government. The pre-war United States did not deserve to be destroyed, nor did China, as divorced from their respective regimes.

If you don't understand apocalypses as avoidable tragedies, you miss the point of post-apocalyptic stories. Besides Big MT, the Enclave, Dean Domino, all should stand as thematic proof that destroying a civilization does NOT cause the tyrants and the villans to be held to account.

Fallout has always been about putting the pieces back together, panting trees you yourself will never sit under in the shade. It's a generational struggle. To nuke it back to Fallout 1 is to spit in the face of everyone who ever thought of these games as anything other than an evening entertainment.

I never liked Avellone, I hated his Fallout Bible, I hated the Vault Experiments, and Jesus Christ do I hate Ulysses. For any talent he has, he is and always has been a Nietzschean loser. Putting about back into a Mad Max shooting gallery is less pathetic than the notion one can create their own values, particularly with childish temper tantrums the world does work the way you want.
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You seem rather obsessed with real world applications of video games to real life to the point of going out of your way to politicize and moralize them and using them as a tool to virtue signal your own personal beliefs.

Out of everything you just said, the one thing I can get behind is "planting trees you yourself *may* never sit under, in the shade." That was the one thing of value, that you actually said, that added to this discussion in some way. The rest of this was you ranting and embarrassing yourself, especially when you have to bring up your hatred of Chris Avellone that nobody at all asked for. The discussion was why Christ wanted the wasteland nuked, and it branched out into things related to that, then there's you telling everyone you don't like Chris Avellone.

On the topic of "missing the point about post-apocalyptic stories," what point exactly? That you needlessly bringing morality up in regards to two video games that flexible-like, let you decide if you'd wish to be a child killer or not? That you personally don't want it nuked because it "spits in the faces of everyone who ever thought of these games as anything other than evening entertainment?"

Yeah, these games, like any game, first and foremost always will be "evening entertainment" because that's what video games are. I'm sorry you seem to think that video games have to take on virtues you agree with, that things can't be separate, and most of all, that "thematic proof" in the form of a fictional video game can be used in reality, that doesn't consist of your personal narrative, but sometimes in life a "Nietzchean loser" will write good stories with skill in stroytelling that is readily apparent, while people like you may just decide that if video games can't taken seriously the way a real societal issue would, they're just going to go on here and cope.

Thanks for inspiring me to make an account by the way. It was only a matter of time before I did eventually, but seeing this while considering taking up modding for Fallout 2, seriously sped up the process.
 

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At the end of the day, you're choosing a side, making a choice.

Plus Ulyses was a dickish blowhard hipster.

Asnfor all the comments that the NCR has grown to the point where its not post appoc, you're missing the point: theres still a wasteland to explore. It could be explored in new areas, or you could set it on another new fringe of the NCR and just explore.
You could have a game where you're framed for a crime and have to flee the NCR until you can clear your name, and in the process explore new areas and factions.
Or you could set it mostly in the NCR heartland and explore reclaimed and brand new cities and villiages... but soon as you leave a population center the wasteland will be there.... granted in the more core NCR regions the more dangerous critters will be mostly wiped out (deathclaws, radscorps, ferals) but others like geckos or molerats would be either too populous to erradicate or too useful for food and leather, albiet the more dangerous gecko types like fires and goldens would likely be targeted anywhere near cities and trade routes.

Plus the FONV era or later NCR would make for genre crossover opprotunities.
Anyone remember the civIV Fallout mod a user did years back ?
You could even do a Fallout:Tactics type squad game or smaller scale RTS than civ in that setting, controlling a smaller force from the NCR or various other factions and vie for the wastes at a macro scale all while staying in the setting and enriching it.

Of course that wont happen because [voice="Ron Pearlman"]Bethesda never changes [/voice]

But yeah, in general Id fucking love to see some entries with a few followup sequels covering different regions, you could start each out about the time of Fallout 1 and show the region devolping, that said Im not against seeing a post FONV era type regrowth of civilization, its bound to grow if you keep saving it, it'd just be the equivelent of the wild west during or after the civil war, but only in the core regions of the NCR or other goverment, that still leaves a LOT of area still pure wasteland.

But yeah, I dont see bethesda doing it right.
My guess is Fallout 5 will either be somewhere in the south, Georgia or Texas, or in NY state with NYC serving the same function as the rubble of DC in Fallout 3.
 
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I honestly am completely fine with post-post-nuclear. "Fallout" is not only defined as radioactive particles in the atmosphere, but also the outcome of something. And civilization in Fallout becoming super developed is still the outcome of a nuclear war. Plus, I just really like the stories that can be created with large scale civilizations and wars.

And unlike many other people, I'm completely fine with revisiting old locations and seeing the fallout of the cannon endings first-hand. We can even have new games set around the time period of Fallout 1, and then make a game that's set around the time period of Fallout New Vegas in the same spot. Although, seeing those games back-to-back would be pretty stupid.

I know these are unpopular opinions, or at least controversial ones, but I feel like these are important things to consider when world-building.
 
Ugly Kid said:
I honestly am completely fine with post-post-nuclear. "Fallout" is not only defined as radioactive particles in the atmosphere, but also the outcome of something. And civilization in Fallout becoming super developed is still the outcome of a nuclear war. Plus, I just really like the stories that can be created with large scale civilizations and wars.

And unlike many other people, I'm completely fine with revisiting old locations and seeing the fallout of the cannon endings first-hand. We can even have new games set around the time period of Fallout 1, and then make a game that's set around the time period of Fallout New Vegas in the same spot. Although, seeing those games back-to-back would be pretty stupid.

I know these are unpopular opinions, or at least controversial ones, but I feel like these are important things to consider when world-building.
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I mean in a way thats what Fallout 2 was, you see some of the fallout of saving shady sands....
 
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