So, yeah, Fallout

[Grizzly~Adams]

Im not saying its wrong to not like it. The types of games people like is totally subjective. It's just bitching about it isn't going to accomplish anything, especially when you try to get all rhetorical with its small short-comings.

I also do think there is a blind hatred towards the game, because of built up cynisism when Interplay started working on FOOS. FOT came out lacking the majic of it's prequels, but IMO it still was a decent game. It did get pretty tedious towards the end, and had more than enough bugs/problems, but Im not going to let the my growing hatred and cynism towards Interplay havve an effect on my opinion of the game.

I could sit here bitch about all the problems of even my favorite games, but again that doesn't accomplish anything...

(Kharn, why are bitching at me you running my mouth off? I'm not the one insulting other posters.)

Edit - And I'm not new to the Fallout world, If thats what your implying. I've played all the Fallout's repetively,except for POS, when they came out . I know of the enthusiasm surrounding FOT. If you remember Kharn, I use to post alot on Vault 13.net and was a member of the Khans before Tactics came out, but left because MP sucked and we had a bunch of teeny-boppers in the clan.

Mo Edit - "But Tactics failed to be succesfull and appreciated despite the fact that everyone was biased *in favour of it*"

None of the Fallout Games were trully successful. Fallout fanbase is a small fanbase compared other games. If the first Fallout games were successful compared to todays standards, we would probably have FO7 by now...

 

[APTYP]

Im not going to let the my growing hatred and cynism towards Interplay havve an effect on my opinion of the game.

Too late. Now you'll "like" FOT/FOBOS/whatever out of spite.

 

[Brother None]

I also do think there is a blind hatred towards the game, because of built up cynisism when Interplay started working on FOOS.

Wait, wait, let me get this one straight

You think there's blind hatred towards Fallout:Tactics, because there's built up cynicism to Fallout:Brotherhood of Steel?

Yip.

I just explained to you, letter-for-letter, and I'm not the first, that Fallout Tactics DID NOT HAVE ANY NEGATIVE BIAS AGAINST IT BEFORE ITS RELEASE.

"Fallout: Tactics failed because of the Fallout RPG fans" is a *myth*. In fact, the Fallout RPG fanbase is the only reason Fallout:Tactics even got a shot at being a succesfull game, but it failed simply because it sucks. Get over it.

I could sit here bitch about all the problems of even my favorite games, but again that doesn't accomplish anything...

Hahahaha! Yeah, that argument will get you somewhere.

(Kharn, why are bitching at me you running my mouth off? I'm not the one insulting other posters.)

Why don't you some of your "cognitive prowess" and find a hobby, and try not to childlishly insult someone who just states thier opinion.

Edit - Just a little advice, Your elitist vocabulary doesn't make up for lack of maturity or personality.

Its just stupid how all you sctrict PC RPGing Fallout junkies need all your little fetishes fullfilled. Yeah it was "flawed" and didn't live up to your expectations, but not that many games do. I would like to see you make something better.

Oh, right, I just need new glasses, then

And I'm not new to the Fallout world, If thats what your implying. I've played all the Fallout's repetively,except for POS, when they came out . I know of the enthusiasm surrounding FOT. If you remember Kharn, I use to post alot on Vault 13.net and was a member of the Khans before Tactics came out, but left because MP sucked and we had a bunch of teeny-boppers in the clan.

I think it's your memory that's failing. If you'll remember I was never active at Vault13, and if you'll remember another thing the Khans and the Order were once a (board-)war. Seriously. It happened.

None of the Fallout Games were trully successful. Fallout fanbase is a small fanbase compared other games. If the first Fallout games were successful compared to todays standards, we would probably have FO7 by now...

Nice try, but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Fallout: Tactics is the most pre-ordered game in Interplay Store history, and probably high up in the list of most returned game (for a full refund).

Fallout: Tactics was given its chance by the Fallout fanbase. A more than fair chance, most people supported it and loved it before it came out. But somehow it's *our* fault that it didn't do nearly as good as it could have done if only it had been a decent game

 

[Grizzly~Adams]

"Its just stupid how all you sctrict PC RPGing Fallout junkies need all your little fetishes fullfilled. Yeah it was "flawed" and didn't live up to your expectations, but not that many games do. I would like to see you make something better."

- I was mocking the angry Fallout Fanbase in general, not a direct insult to other posters.

"Why don't you some of your "cognitive prowess" and find a hobby, and try not to childlishly insult someone who just states thier opinion.

Edit - Just a little advice, Your elitist vocabulary doesn't make up for lack of maturity or personality."

- I was defending myself using any sort of wit a could muster. I could have just said "fuck you nerd" but I have a little more digniity than that. I wouldn't classify any of this as "mouthing off".


"I just explained to you, letter-for-letter, and I'm not the first, that Fallout Tactics DID NOT HAVE ANY NEGATIVE BIAS AGAINST IT BEFORE ITS RELEASE. "

You are misinterpreting my message. I know it had alot of enthusiasm when it came out, but once everybody played it they thought it was subpar to the original, but not necesarly a bad game. Then POS comes out and people who are fueled by this hatred of interplay who have done there fans too wrong, now get more pissed about the Fallout games that didn't live up to there expectations.

 

[welsh]

Honestly Grizzly, I kind of thing Tactics is history. I seriously doubt many people are feeling that more upset about Tactics because of BOS.

That Tactics did disappoint was a fair problem and that gave the fans warning that they could expect more disappointment.

There are a lot of fans who did like Tactics and have posted that here. Ok, but the problems of tactics still need to be reconciled, and in the measure, Tactics generally fell short.

As for BOS, I think the fans had good reason to believe that Interplay had screwed the pooch. A good franchise gone to piss because a bunch of developers wanted to make a quick buck. Where's the love?

 

[Grizzly~Adams]

Honestly Grizzly, I kind of thing Tactics is history. I seriously doubt many people are feeling that more upset about Tactics because of BOS.

Reall? I've noticed alot more negativity towards even Fallout 2 ever since Interplay shelved FO3 and made POS.

I think it's your memory that's failing. If you'll remember I was never active at Vault13, and if you'll remember another thing the Khans and the Order were once a (board-)war. Seriously. It happened.

and your point is...

"Fallout: Tactics failed because of the Fallout RPG fans" is a *myth*. In fact, the Fallout RPG fanbase is the only reason Fallout:Tactics even got a shot at being a succesfull game, but it failed simply because it sucks. Get over it.

So just because a few of elitists would go as far as to say the game sucks, means I have to think the same? I also wouldn't go as far to say the game "failed". It wasn't successful, but it wasn't a failure either. BOS is a failure, Tactics is game that never really recieved its full potential.

 

[Role-Player]

- I was mocking the angry Fallout Fanbase in general, not a direct insult to other posters.

Newsflash - the other posters are part of the Fallout Fanbase. Mocking the fanbase in general also affects them, FYI.

"Why don't you some of your "cognitive prowess" and find a hobby

I just did, its pointing the problems in your poorly presented opinion. Which shouldn't even be considered an opinion, rather, an amalgamation of incoherent thoughts.

and try not to childlishly insult someone who just states thier opinion.

Its all in the presentation, spud. You could've presented your opinion without posting like a dolt and without insulting or mocking people based on nothing else than your assumptions. Had you presented your opinion in a more tasteful manner, you'd be fine.

Edit - Just a little advice, Your elitist vocabulary doesn't make up for lack of maturity or personality."

Of course not. Then again, that wasn't the purpose. But i can see how you'd think otherwise.

- I was defending myself using any sort of wit a could muster. I could have just said "fuck you nerd" but I have a little more digniity than that. I wouldn't classify any of this as "mouthing off".

Tell me you didn't confuse mouth-stuffing with mouthing off...

 

[Grizzly~Adams]

And you may like it, ok, but don't shoot of your mouth about us being biased against it when that's just bullshit.

Newsflash - the other posters are part of the Fallout Fanbase. Mocking the fanbase in general also affects them, FYI.

I said ANGRY Falout fanbase. Not all of us fans of the game are hell bent on bitching about all the shitty games interplay has put out while ignoring us.

amalgamation of incoherent thoughts.

Beware of the deadly weapon of extensive vocabulary!!! Please, for your own good take my advice seriously.

 

[Brother None]

Reall? I've noticed alot more negativity towards even Fallout 2 ever since Interplay shelved FO3 and made POS.

Not really, the subject just comes up a bit more. There's always been some discontent about the campness of Fallout 2, though I personally don't agree in calling it a failure, since it did succeed in having a good non-linear storyline, up until the end.

"Fallout: Tactics failed because of the Fallout RPG fans" is a *myth*. In fact, the Fallout RPG fanbase is the only reason Fallout:Tactics even got a shot at being a succesfull game, but it failed simply because it sucks. Get over it.

So just because a few of elitists would go as far as to say the game sucks, means I have to think the same? I also wouldn't go as far to say the game "failed". It wasn't successful, but it wasn't a failure either. BOS is a failure, Tactics is game that never really recieved its full potential.

No, no, no! I'm saying you shouldn't accuse the Fallout fanbase of being biased against the Tactics games when that it simply not true. Will you admit that that is not true, finally?

 

[Role-Player]

amalgamation of incoherent thoughts.

Beware of the deadly weapon of extensive vocabulary!!! Please, for your own good take my advice seriously.

Unless you have a problem understanding "extensive vocabulary", at which point i may decide to use simpler words even someone like you can understand, i see no point in taking your advice seriously (or anything you've been saying, for that matter). But given you seem to be able to understand what i'm saying just fine, your "advice" comes off as rather vacuous.

 

[Brother None]

Unless you have a problem understanding "extensive vocabulary", at which point i may decide to use simpler words even someone like you can understand, i see no point in taking your advice seriously (or anything you've been saying, for that matter). But given you seem to be able to understand what i'm saying just fine, your "advice" comes off as rather vacuous.

I hate to do this, but... http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=61&p=2

 

[Role-Player]

You're not implying i'm Cute Gurl v2.0, are you? I didn't think you swinged that way

 

[Ancient Oldie]

It's funny how there is an instant, knee-jerk reaction to go into the offensive when someone states that they liked FOT.

When I said that FOT received good reviews, I didn't mean just one site gave it a good review, I meant at least 6 sites that I have come across. Saying that they gave it a high score because they were expecting the in-game bugs to be fixed implies that once the bugs were removed, these sites liked the game for its shitty gameplay, shitty mechanics, and all sorts of other shit if the prevailant rhetoric around here was followed. And as for glossing over all the people that liked the game with titles like "console kiddies" only demonstrates that certain people can't accept the fact that the game might have been well recieved.

Also, people I've spoken to that have never played FO have liked this game, so stating that nearly everyone was biased *for* this game when it came out sounds like a vast conspiracy in which only the Fallout community was truly enlightened once the game was finally released. In reality, the bias is probably the other way around.

As for the bugs and other issues, it's fucking Interplay. The majority of their games have been shitty in this respect, and we also seem to have looked over the fact that JA2 had more game stopping bugs and compatibility issues than FOT. I've had to ctl-f4 out of JA countless times, and I have the latest version installed on one of the Win98 PIII 500 PC's I own. It has given me more issues than FOT has. The pathfinding in JA2 could have been better also. Does it make the game shitty? Of course not.

As for weapon imbalances, considering the scarcity of ammo for some of the more powerful guns in the game, not everyone could lug the same uber-powerful guns around, and compromises had to be made. if you were to play FO 1, was there any point in investing skill points in any of the weapon categories other than lasers? And again, JA2 had a couple of unfairly powerful guns that made the game relatively easy near the final 3rd of the game.

The reality is, many people like this game, and it's rather childish to start flaming them because they do. I've played many squad-based tactical games, and FOT, regardless that it had the Fallout name on it, is one of the better ones out there, especially in real-time mode, where it's better than Commando's and the like IMO. And as for the plot, compared to most games in the same genre, believe it or not, even with the plot inconsistencies within the Fallout universe; it's better than most.

Most Fallout fans bought this game expecting a reincarnation of a Fallout 1 quality title, with a deep RPG plot, perfect implementation of the SPECIAL system (which isn't meant for tactical war games to begin with, although certain aspects of it are), bug free, purely turn-based, with a bit more focus on battles, but all-in-all a psuedo Fallout 3. Instead, their expectations were met with a great tactical game that had Fallout aspects half-assed implemented to appease the Fallout fans, and to give the game some market recognition. That's where MicroForte fucked up, and, like I said earlier, that's why FOT should have never had the Fallout name, or anything else Fallout, in it.

Edit: Nice link Kharn.

 

[Brother None]

Also, people I've spoken to that have never played FO have liked this game, so stating that nearly everyone was biased *for* this game when it came out sounds like a vast conspiracy in which only the Fallout community was truly enlightened once the game was finally released. In reality, the bias is probably the other way around.

Nice reading history backwards. How about you actually go through the NMA news archives around the time of Tactics:

http://www.nma-fallout.com/news_archive/arc10-2000.php
http://www.nma-fallout.com/news_archive/arc11-2000.php
http://www.nma-fallout.com/news_archive/arc0-2001.php
http://www.nma-fallout.com/news_archive/arc1-2001.php
http://www.nma-fallout.com/news_archive/arc2-2001.php

Try and find some negative stuff. Here're the first impression from the demo from Miro and Odin:

Demo - First Impressions by Miroslav - 4:35 -
I won't speak much about the demo right now, as I'm busy playing the damn thing It's looking good.

Continuos Turn Based mode is what I was eagerly waiting for, and it proved great! This is one of the best things in the game, although it has a bad side - when controlling more characters than one or two, this mode is testing your skills with mouse, you'll depend much on your speed, making this game closer to Diablo style. Which is annoying.

I reckon that CTB would work fantastic when playing as a single character, which would make it suitable for Fallout 3 and it's optional multiplayer option (who knows, maybe a massive multiplayer Fallout game).

Oh, and here's a quote from the game's tutorial

2. Crouch - this is useful for getting under low obstacles. It also gives the character a higher chance to hit the enemy with guns because the weapon is held steadier. Crouching is also useful if there aren't any toilets around.

Bits from Odin: Well I have to agree the CTB system is almost like playing a RTS game, but I really like it! The only problem was that my men wouldn't shot sometimes, and stupid me didn't pay attention to the action points.(simply because it looks and feels like an RTS)

The TB system was the real bummer, what a shame! FT is using a sequencer, which selects the team members turn in TB. This proved reeally annoying to me, simply because I should be able to select the character I want when it's my turn (like Jagged Alliance).And there were several other issues in TB mode, that annoyed me..

Other than that there are several bugs in the game, one of these are the team members movement.
When one of my charaters spotted a landmine, my men would still walk on the damn landmine (guess they're not that smart). And they had problems going from one end of the map to another, they kept walking into walls and stopping there. I even got one of my team member to get stuck somehow, don't ask me how!!

The right clicking was gone, which was to me a step back in user friendly controls (So put it back, damnit!)

But the game was awesome, animations where great and the graphics was incredible! So keep it up, guys..

Oh, right. Incredible, awesome, looking good. Real negative bias there.

Fallout Tactics gone gold:

Fallout Tactics Gone GOLD!! by Odin - 8:17 -
Yes my friends the moment we all been waiting for, Fallout Tactics has gone gold. Which mean that they've finished the game, now all we have to do is wait until it ships, here's the info I got from Heather Greer (PR Person at Interplay):

14 Degrees East, a division of Interplay Entertainment Corp., proudly announced today that the highly anticipated game, Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel, has GONE GOLD!
Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel will be available at retail stores nationwide soon!

Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel expands the Fallout universe into new directions. It is the first game to bring multiplayer gaming to the Fallout series. It adds true vehicular combat (tanks, APCs and even a Dune Buggies). The Fallout tactical combat system has been refined.
The consequences of the players actions have an impact on the storyline and mission development. The player has complete control over his party members, unlike previous Fallout games. Mutants, robots, two-headed cows, gangers and ghouls are all targets for pistols, flame-throwers, rocket launchers and energy weapons.
Players have the choice of a new continuous turn-based mode for faster action or the traditional turn-based mode for more tactical gameplay.

Link: The Official Fallout Tactics site
Thanks to Heather Greer (Interplay) and all the others who emailed me about this!!

You and Grizzly have obviously been listening to Interplay too much, no offense. The response to Tactics prior to people actually trying to play it through and through was overly positive.

I don't mind that you like Tactics. Sure, go ahead, like it. But don't accuse the Fallout RPG fanbase of destroying this game or of being biased against it. Everyone was roaringly enthusiastic about it, even after the demo which made some people nervous, and we gave it every chance it deserved and more.

 

[Ancient Oldie]

Also, people I've spoken to that have never played FO have liked this game, so stating that nearly everyone was biased *for* this game when it came out sounds like a vast conspiracy in which only the Fallout community was truly enlightened once the game was finally released. In reality, the bias is probably the other way around.

Nice reading history backwards. How about you actually go through the NMA news archives around the time of Tactics:

Read my post again. I meant the negative feedback once the game was released.

You and Grizzly have obviously been listening to Interplay too much, no offense. The response to Tactics prior to people actually trying to play it through and through was overly positive.

I don't mind that you like Tactics. Sure, go ahead, like it. But don't accuse the Fallout RPG fanbase of destroying this game or of being biased against it. Everyone was roaringly enthusiastic about it, even after the demo which made some people nervous, and we gave it every chance it deserved and more.

No offense Kharn, but I barely ever visit the Interplay forums except for the rare occasions that it's been linked by NMA. And as for me saying that the Fallout fans "killed" Tactics or any of its other endeavors for that matter, try taking your own advice and read backwards on this thread to my first post.

Do I think that the majority of Fallout fans have a bias against the game, yes, I believe they do. Do they have a reason to dislike it, yes, and I already explained the reasons. It's the childish flaming of those that like the game that's fucked up and rather annoying.

 

[Brother None]

Read my post again. I meant the negative feedback once the game was released.

Bullshit. I just showed you how Tactics was praised into heaven right up to the point of release, and yet somehow you're claiming that the game had bias against it after its release? Bullshit, that's impossible. The negative feedback it did get were based on its own merits. Deal with it and don't make bullshit accusations.

 

[Odin]

Do I think that the majority of Fallout fans have a bias against the game, yes, I believe they do. Do they have a reason to dislike it, yes, and I already explained the reasons. It's the childish flaming of those that like the game that's fucked up and rather annoying.

I think you're missing the point, Kharn and the rest aren't out to flame/bash the ones that like FOT. But rather explain to them why the title isn't that good and that we didn't kill the game but rather the quality of the game itself brought it down like the Titanic.

Heck read what was initially said by Grizzly:

Why don't all you FOT haters just admit it. Your just pissed off because it wasn't Fallout 3. Not everyone was pissed off when FOT finally came out, I can't even remember one bad reveiw(at first). Yeah it need some patchwork, but it wasn't nearly as bad as FO2.

Please don't tell me that this isn't a flamebait, cause it is...

So let's set the record straight:

• No we weren't mad that FOT wasn't Fo3, some were but most of us liked the idea of a tactical Fallout game (if done properly)
• No we didn't bash the game from the gecko (pardon the pun)
• Yes the game was really buggy and yet again, almost no patches..
• IPLY handling of MF didn't help FOTs reputation

etc...etc....

 

[Ancient Oldie]

Against its own merits, huh? So all the people that liked it, all the sites with positive reviews, all the examples I just gave of its strengths, all bullshit. Yet you go and acuse people who liked the game of:

Tactics failed to be succesfull and appreciated despite the fact that everyone was biased *in favour of it*

I'm dealing with it realistically buddy, are you?

I never meant bias in general, just in the Fallout community. This is what I meant by fanbase bias:

Most Fallout fans bought this game expecting a reincarnation of a Fallout 1 quality title, with a deep RPG plot, perfect implementation of the SPECIAL system (which isn't meant for tactical war games to begin with, although certain aspects of it are), bug free, purely turn-based, with a bit more focus on battles, but all-in-all a psuedo Fallout 3. Instead, their expectations were met with a great tactical game that had Fallout aspects half-assed implemented to appease the Fallout fans, and to give the game some market recognition. That's where MicroForte fucked up, and, like I said earlier, that's why FOT should have never had the Fallout name, or anything else Fallout, in it.

So, people on both sides of the good vs. crap FT opinion have valid points. If I was a hardcore FO fanatic who picked up a copy of Tactics, and halfway through playing the game, noticed several glaring plot-holes that didn't mix with the universe, I would have every right to be put off. However, if this is the first Fallout game that I played, and therefore didn't know much of the backstory, or am willing to overlook those details, and focus more on the game's principle strengths, then yes, I would have every right to say that the game is pretty damn good.
Do you have a right to be pissed yes

If you didn't like the game itself, regardless of the Fallout name, then fine. But there have been several posts where people haven't been judging it for a tactical game, but for a Fallout RPG, and will obviously hate it for the reasons above.

Also, relax. I don't want to start a pointless pissing contest. It's just a fucking game.

 

[welsh]

Role Player and Grizzly, I think you both need to chill.

I also think Ancient and Kharn are getting close to speaking past each other. Ancient, Fallout Tactics was warmly received when the game was initially released. It was the frustrations and disappointments that followed that have given the game it's crappy reputation.

Interestingly, the notion of violent fans has come up in the Bitterman discussion on his site.
http://www.desolation.org/nurk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=354&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

 

[APTYP]

What's to argue about? FOT wasn't a very good game, bias or no bias.