Grizzly~Adams said:
I think gamespy dropped it because MP sucked ass when it first came out, it was patched too late. People already lost interest, including me. But still, even after the patch MP was lacking...
Well, now do you have some clue as to why the game went quickly downhill? It wasn't just because of shitty MP. The single-player game made it obvious that the company artist on the message board who said the game sucked had more clue about Fallout's universe (note, I didn't say anything to do with RPG) than the actual monkeys on design.
I'll see if I can get Gareth (Section8, the aforementioned artist) here to explain some more points to you if he wants, as I'm not fond of trying to explain to some apologist how the history of events happened. If you do want to insist on the bullshit parade and subscribing to the drama-queens' version of events, you WILL wear the moron tag, I will make sure of it. That was mainly for the mouth-stuffing and resemblance of the usual trolling morons at V13 who kept posting "IT"S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE AN RPG!!!!" when in fact people already knew that but were griping about the game for wholly unrelated reasons.
Are we flaming people for liking the game? Fuck no. I've seen some people do some very nice work with it. You amateur apologists need to unplug your heads from your asses and read things again, maybe after a little Hooked-On Phonics. People noted how asinine Bitterman's rant is when he goes into such glory over FOT, yet admits to having played only the demo. He also excuses the game with unfounded remarks and hypocrisy when he was making comments about Fallout 2, possibly in favor of the other drama queen on that forum, Moonbiter (as it sounds like Moonbiter's usual version of events with the usual mouth-stuffing for attention).
Yeah, Ill admit they had a positive bias when it first came out(i don't think I stated the opposite). And the orginally game quality wasn't up to par, meaning it needed alot of work. not mention all the small little differences pissed off all the role players who needed a FO3.
That last point was moot, is moot, and will be moot from now on. Don't bother bringing it anymore as it's irrelevant. It's been irrelevant since the V13 forums and since people were expecting a tactical game set in the Fallout universe.
Maybe they wouldn't have been so disappointed if that is what they got.
Grizzly~Adams said:
Im not saying its wrong to not like it. The types of games people like is totally subjective. It's just bitching about it isn't going to accomplish anything, especially when you try to get all rhetorical with its small short-comings.
You might want to do a little more thinking. Rhetoric describes what those who defend FOT are best described as using. No, we're not bashing the game anymore. Mainly because the support has been dropped for it since the publisher didn't care to finish completing the game.
You might consider the fact that the setting was botched to hell, without any style to it, as a small thing. Back in the real world, people care about more than just a game features list on a box.
I also do think there is a blind hatred towards the game, because of built up cynisism when Interplay started working on FO
OS. FOT came out lacking the majic of it's prequels, but IMO it still was a decent game. It did get pretty tedious towards the end, and had more than enough bugs/problems, but Im not going to let the my growing hatred and cynism towards Interplay havve an effect on my opinion of the game.
Okay, now you ARE going to wear the moron tag. If you can't tell what's so unbelievably stupid in what you've said in the above, you need to remove yourself from the gene pool - quick. For those a bit slow on the uptake, FOT was released years before F
OS was announced, and long before the Fallout Fantasy drama.
Edit - And I'm not new to the Fallout world, If thats what your implying. I've played all the Fallout's repetively,except for POS, when they came out . I know of the enthusiasm surrounding FOT. If you remember Kharn, I use to post alot on Vault 13.net and was a member of the Khans before Tactics came out, but left because MP sucked and we had a bunch of teeny-boppers in the clan.
I thought I recognized that brand of mindless fanboying!
Mo Edit - "But Tactics failed to be succesfull and appreciated despite the fact that everyone was biased *in favour of it*"
None of the Fallout Games were trully successful. Fallout fanbase is a small fanbase compared other games. If the first Fallout games were successful compared to todays standards, we would probably have FO7 by now...
More uneducated remarks, and I'm not surprised. Fallout didn't do well initially because it didn't have much advertising put behind it. Later, with word of mouth, the audience grew, until Fallout had become one of Interplay's titles with the highest amount of publication runs over time. Fallout's presence was known in the mass gaming media, even PC Gamer recognized it for what it was, and we'd hardly be getting five new people registering a day if the game series didn't have some draw to it (even before Tactics).
Ancient Oldie said:
How many times did the former staff of V13 and later some of the DAC guys turn on JE Sawyer, Chris and the other devs who wanted to have open dialouge with the fan base? You can't go around and constantly bash and ridicule developers, insult their families, threaten to harm them and expect to be taken seriously.
Ha, are you shitting me?! Is this guy serious, or is he just talking crap?
The main reason why people turned on the devs, and nowhere near to the point where they exaggerate, was because the developers lied to them. Hell, Chris even gave me a call to give me reassurances and all sorts of other crap (as in, FOT was originally planned to be set in/near the Florida Keys), and that turned to hell.
You also forget, those trying to skew history are CLANNIE TRASH you're talking about. Developer = GOD to them. Most of those clannies, including the Khans, also backstabbed the hell out of V13 on a whim for more drama. Part of what happened is still here, which is what some of the clannies hope people will not do before they play out their drama-queening. That is, read the archived forums for what went on. Many of them are probably glad that they V13 forums aren't archived
publicly, else we'd have a good number of things to bring back up and smile about.
Well, the developer = GOD only applied to those who fed out the hype and lies, since whatever Section8 posted was often ignored by the clannie trash as it didn't fit into their agenda.
Then there's also the fact that many of these people
are our friends. We do give them a razzing because it's something to keep them in check. If someone just got glowing fanboying, then they'd think that everything they did was good. It's also another pair of eyes looking at their work (or eye, in some cases), by people who have had years of experience in both playing the genre extensively and developing/testing and/or knowing how to do so, and actually have the balls to say something without worrying about putting the other person into tears because their ego wasn't sufficiently stroked like many gaming primadonnas. It's called
integrity.
Some people we'd wish to leave the gaming industry, as they are represent of the shittier "gaming colleges" that are popping up all over, many of which teach bad habits and are just an extension of Microsoft's dick. There's also reasons why we're given nods to in games. Saint and Rex, for all the shit and critiques they gave the Reflexive devs, got a nod from them. Myself, I still have to smile at a certain character in Planescape: Torment, which was based from a character of mine in Ultima Online. I also have to chuckle at the Yellow Nuka-Cola. While I know that was part insult back to me, Oakden did thank me for giving them a nudge in the right direction on a number of occasions.
Please tell me you know whom Tony Oakden is.
They sounded very ungrateful, no? Hmmm, maybe because the nod back was in the tone I gave it, which was a bit of piss and vinegar, and it was in all good fun and they knew it.
I've heard people bash dev's before (and in certain cases, rightfully so), but I've never seen it get that personal. If there's any truth in that comment, then I can see why they would leave the fan sites out of the loop. I wouldn't want some dorks with no life and an abnormal obsession with some fucking game personally harrassing me and getting off on acting like a cyber tough-ass.
Here's another clue. The developers were treated that way because they were proven to be dishonest when the game was released. Therefore the dishonesty was made known. That means they still kept going on with the bullshit they started when they first announced the game, adding insult to injury, and we're taking our time to cover a game and the damn devs can't be honest with us.
Now, are you the kind of sheep that likes to be fed bullshit? I hope you have more respect for yourself than that.
And, if it wasn't for a lot of the critiques, a lot by yours truly, then FOT would have been a more simplistic game, with levels that went directly to the next one with maybe a bonus unlocked level intermission. It was because one of us recognized the poor design, commented upon it, and did it in such a manner that they could not ignore. We also did it politely, only getting reproachful when they started to make claims of "Jagged Alliance 2 in the Fallout universe" when it was anything but, especially in the original design.
Yes, hadn't it been for people shaking their heads, FOT might have been truly a shit game instead of being merely under par as a tactical game (mainly due to bugs, perks that just don't work but are in the game, the burst-fire bug), and shitty as a Fallout game because of how they skullfucked the setting.
Work that into your drama, kiddies.
Kharn said:
It has gotten that personal. I'm not sure, but a specific case is when Rosh and Saint P. based one of the surviving BISers, Sean K Reynolds, into oblivion. I'm not sure because kumquat deleted that thread, and I never got to see it
Mainly it was because of the "BIS isn't dead" and related bullshit over that, and I don't believe Saint was really involved with that. Briareus went to Sean's defense, saying that Sean knows what he's talking about (extra irony, given the PayPal humor), he knows everything that's going on, and that we shouldn't question his word. (
Saint was just reaming kumquatq3 a new ass for being a fanboying twatwaffle, especially after he backstabbed NMA.)
After that, I think I posted something to the effect of how it was starting to tell where Briareus' ended and where Sean began, they were so connected by virtue of Briareus trying to crawl up his ass. I have no mercy for anyone who tries to top bullshit with lies.
At which, I think Briareus told me to fuck off or something, and kumquatq3 decided to go into raging fanboy mode and deleted part of the thread. That was what lost him moderation powers, mainly because we do not delete posts unless they are accidental double-posts.
So I guess this forum's other purpose is a safehouse for all the Menza trolls to look down on the masses, without getting there asses kicked.
