some ideas...

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I agree with JR on the issue of bows. There are a lot of people, even today, who continue to use bows to hunt, and in more primitive areas, gun powder might be difficult or impossible to make, especially if there is little or no trade.

As for the every person be unique- More variation in NPCs would be nice, but I agree, switching CD's is a pain in the ass.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-02 AT 05:57PM (GMT)[p]>"Ever play Redneck Rampage?"
>
>I have not.

You should. It would be like your family reunion.

>"I guess you lied about taking
>criticism"
>
>I did take critisism, and I
>even took back a lot
>of what I said because
>I realized I had gone
>overboard. Then I was still
>badgered and insulted, and I
>simply defended myself. Stick to
>arguing about the points, and
>maybe I won't take so
>much offence.

That probably came about since you copped the shitty attitude first, continued it, and then kept up with the stupid ideas like Kevlar.

>Perhaps not, but where do you
>draw the line. A lot
>of stuff already in the
>game has passed what I
>precieve as your line by
>a few light years. Unless
>you clarify exactly what your
>position is, I have little
>choice but to make assumptions
>to fill in the blanks.

The sad thing is, we've painted a whole fucking picture for you. Even pointed it out quite clearly so you could do some research. I'm not going to waste my time on someone so evidently clueless.

>Like I said, you give
>me the impression that the
>hand gun from the first
>fallout and the alien blaster
>are the only acceptable weapons.

Then you seriously need to learn how to read. Did you ever wonder why the Fallout loading screens were mostly comic books, or akin to that?

>The tommy gun is out,
>because those were used in
>the 20s, not the 50s.
>I somehow doubt that they
>were used in many sci-fis.

I consider your "doubts" to be a load of wash, since you show no idea about 40's-50's sci-fi comic books and radio serials.

>The minigun is more of
>a modern weapon than a
>50s one.

Spoken like a clueless twit. Might I suggest you do some research and get some clue before you spout more pseudo-knowledge?

>The gatiling laser
>gun? I somehow doubt that
>was in 50s sci-fi, modern
>sci-fi maybe.

No, it's quite simple. A weapon that has been around for a while, but made in the futuristic tone that would be found in the sci-fi pulp from which Fallout was borrowed.

>New Reno really
>fits in (riiiiight). As does
>the martial arts fighting competition
>in San Fran (suuuuurrrre). What
>about that Japanesse mob? I
>could go on.

All of which were admitted by Chris Avellone to have been large mistakes, as have a couple of the Fo2 development team admitted the same. Fallout 2 was largely admitted by the devlopment team to have been a 10 month rushed project, one filled with too many easter eggs and items that didn't fit into the setting. So much, in fact, that it was said to have been a miracle it did as well as it had, especially if you count the plethora of bugs. Which is also why they started up the Fallout Bible, and people are compiling some lore taken directly from the games themselves, so that the third installment could be more faithful to the setting like Fallout 1 instead of the mixed-up jumble of Fo2 and the abomination of FOT. Or didn't you know all this already before you decided to start this crap?

Anything about that you wish to add, or are you done looking like the fool?

>"I'd say you're lying, kid."
>
>No, I actually rounded it off.
>My IQ is 133. I
>said stop calling me kid.
>It is quite disrespectful.

Fine then. I'll just call you what you resemble.

Is that fine with you, clueless kid?

>There has to be some source
>of wood. If I recall
>correctly, the makeshift alcohol distillery
>in FO2 is in a
>wooden shed.

Wood scrap is no problem to find, can last for years if treated right, and you might want to notice that a lot of the panels in buildings in Fallout are metal or scrap wood.

>If one were
>to tear that down, they
>could make lot of bows.

You have just displayed you have NO clue about making bows. Thank you for proving that. I was taught some by the founder and owner of New World Arbalest. Building wood makes for a very shitty bow, you'd be lucky if it fires at all, much less pull without cracking. I'd really like to see you try to make a bow out of plywood or a 2x4. Seriously, I would. It would be so fucking comical, like a rabbit trying to fight an oncoming 18-wheeler in the middle of the highway. An expert lesson in futility.

Besides, who is going to be stupid enough to waste shelter wood when there's serviceable guns lying about? A pipe rifle would be easy to make, moreso because there's gun scraps lying around and you're just making a barrel. As I've mentioned before, Hayduke has so many methods of creating improvised guns, but little to none about bows. Mainly so because they do take much more to make, especially finding the right kind of wood or even shaping a flexible metal into the right shape and weight for ability to be pulled.

>Besides, as I said, some
>could have survived the war.
>People do bow hunt, there
>are museums with bows in
>them, and archery is a
>sport that has been around
>for a long time. It
>would be surprising if not
>a single bow survived.

And I suspect you believe gasoline could be left lying around and that it could be used years later? A bow, lying around for potentially around 300 years (time of war, Fallout, Fallout 2, and then some) would be hard-pressed to fire. A treated, blackened, etc. crossbow prod of metal would even show drastic signs of age, especially if it were used before. Even a 65 lb xbow would have severe fatigue and be a miracle to use after that long.

Could you draw a 17th century bow, even if it were made by today's standards? No, you couldn't. A crossbow would be hard-pressed to last, the prod whether metal or wood, would be severely weakened. There's also no reason for them to be kept in vaults, especially when firearms and the ability to take care of them, reload ammo, etc. is still available.

Maybe you might have bluffed someone who doesn't have some rudimentary knowledge about bows or guns, but you've certainly failed here.

Tell you what, clueless kid, get the hell off of here until you have some clue about what you're attempting to talk about, because as of now you're just being laughed at, badly.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-02 AT 05:55PM (GMT)[p]Good explanation about the bows. Who the hell is going to smith up a number of arrows when bullets are so much easier to recase and use, and a gun is in every way superior than a bow?

>
>P.S.:
>Speaking of heavy bucketheads ;-) -
>did everyone forget about the
>loading screen with a tribal
>wearing one of those things?

A tribal custom by many is to wear armor of a fallen enemy, whether killed by themselves or not. That may have been in a ceremonial way, and you also might want to notice the disrepair the helm was in. There was no way that was used for armor value, instead for totemic value.
 
>I would agree with you here,
>if anyone gave a damn
>about I have to say
>:-D. Seriously, Rosh, I think
>it's not as simple as
>"50's future" (hell if that
>was true, there wouldn't be
>any firearms at all, only
>rayguns and maybe dartguns). We
>need a better definition.

The futuristic ones (e.g. energy) would be military issue. Those of a more "mundane" nature would be either civvy or still of some good military use.

>Miniguns were used in Vietnam in
>the 60's, I think. Not
>too far off. Personally I've
>read a couple of books
>about "Doc Savage" which came
>out before WW2, I think,
>and they had a gatling-wielding
>commie Finn in it :-)

Miniguns in some form or another have been around for more than 100 years. They still would have their use, as would one put "into the future" of that setting. Remember, the pulps and serials of that time were about audible, large, impressive weapons.

>Okay. Have you ever tried to
>make a bow when you
>were little? Try it, you
>might be surprised to discover
>that bow is not just
>any wooden stick you can
>bend and put a string
>on.

>How do you make bow arrows
>with no usable wood, then?

Both excellent points.
 
Be curious to figure out what kind of 1950's era sci-fi pulp/comic book visions would work for envisioning a Fallout 3.

This is especially important as, I think, a lot of us can't recall what the 1950s pulp fictions view of the future was. Interestingly we have a clearer view of the 1960s/70s sci fi- the old Planet of the Apes, Soyvent Green, Omega Man, Man from Uncle (probably too spy genre) etc.

1950s - the US- politically we have fear of the Commies, and especially the Chinese. The Korean War, brewing political hostilities in the middle east, decolonization, nuclear weapons testing (Didn't they make 'Them' in the 1950s?). The Red Scare, Ike in office, McCarthyism, the UN, Howard Hughes, the iron curtain, segregation, and yes, civil defense. Lots of possible story lines just in the politics of the times. This is also more complex as many people are still living in the aftermath of the Second World War, an event that definitely shaped many lives throughout the 1950s. Furthermore, a lot of ideas from the 1950s might not really become popularized until the early 1960s. Do we include all that?

Flash Gordan, ok. But would that also include Buck Rogers or is that too old? If we look at pulp sci fi would that include HP Lovecraft or is that too old? HG Wells? And what about cross-genre's or mixed genres? If you have a Sci-fi story that mixes it up with Sci-Fi/horror (Forbidden Planet or The Thing or maybe even The Blob) or even Sci-Fi/spy or Sci-Fi/Crime- is that such a bad thing? Are you going to limit yourself to comic books or do you allow movies and popular novels as well?

I agree that Fallout should remain true to the original vision and idea and it's important that game retains a consistent world view. 1950s' sci-fi- pulp? Ok. But what are the limits of that?
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-02 AT 06:42PM (GMT)[p]It was intended, and does go with (with notable exceptions) the 50's-era sci-fi pulp and serials.

Buck Rogers? Sure, it does fit. Forbidden Planet? Where do you think the designs for one of the robots is from? The others are boxy or neo-boxy, a security bot having the famous shape of the commonly-used cigar rockets. Flash Gordon has a good play with the game and it feels a lot like something Flash would do. Also, a look at some of the Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck cartoons, and those involving Marvin the Martian would be some good sources, of the right time-period. The saucer shape, the cigar rocket, disintegration pistols, bulky but stylistic machinery. Mostly the kind of cartoons that were shown between the newsreel and previews/contests, and the main feature at a theater (sure got a lot more at the theaters then).

That was the style used, so that it lent a rather unique feeling to Fallout.

Sci-fi/spy didn't, and still prevalently (if you take in a lot of the goofs with the setting in Fo2 and FOT), doesn't mesh into Fallout. Never really has. It does have the nuke scare thing going, with the propaganda films of that era, but not the espianage since that material wasn't part of the pulp/serials. It didn't show up into popular imagination until, as you mentioned, later in the 60's and 70's.

Damn...for the life of me, I cannot remember the title of it, but I have a pulp sitting in an ammo box that is from the 40's. It feels, aside from the aliens from space theme, almost exaclty like Fallout 1 did. Aliens took over, put Earth into a devastated state, and there was a band of heroes that did what they could to fight off the aliens with a mix of alien technology (which would be like energy weapons in Fallout), and their own weapons from before the occupation. Again, much like Fallout.

I'll have to dig it out and post more about what it is, but it was of the 40's and 50's style of "hero kicking ass loudly for mankind" style of comics and radio serials. Radio serials played a BIG part with comics back in those days (especially if the comic was from a serial), and there are a lot of sites that have samples of those shows you can listen to in order to get a good feel about them.
 
Dear Rosh-

Sounds like L Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth, although that was done fairly recently, I think, it still had that 1950s' pulpish feel.

I'm looking at a Sci Fi history and there are some great covers from the Pulp magazines, but there are a lot of authors that were starting out in the 1950s and survived well into the 1980s or 90. If we expande the time from about 1945- 1965 for a 1950's era- Some of the other big Sci Fi authors of that era. - Isacc Asimov, Heinlein, Fritz Leiber, L Sprague de Camp, Lester Del Ray, James Blish, Ray Bradbury, Fritz Lieber, Poul Anderson, even early Harlan Ellison.

Some of the movies- Destination Moon, When World's Collide, War of the Worlds, Forbidden Planet, Invasion of the Body Snatchers (my personal favorite), The Time Machine (1960), Village of the Damned, even Day of the Triffid (1963- but I think the book comes earlier). Stretch it for films a bit and you have Fahrenheit 451 and Planet of the Apes (1967)

Regretfully a lot of the pulps of the time are gone but a few survive- Amazing Stories, Other Worlds, Fantastic Story, A Merritt's Fantasy, Science Fiction Adventures, Rocket Stories, Orbit Science Fiction. Still some great covers, but again this mixes up genre's a bit.

It would be interesting to have a list of some of the films that one can still catch that might be worth considering, or even a set of films.

When this post started I thought about the riot gear from "Conquest" from the Planet of the Apes series, but that would probably be out of era for Fallout. Or would it?

Them- radioactive Ants in the sewars of LA,

There was a movie called "the Navy versus the Mutant" or something that was over that time. I remember it From Saturday afternoon Chiller features.

Then there was Attack of the Crabmonsters, or something- Giant mutant crab attacks people on island (including the Professor from Gilligan's Island). Crab has the advantage in that it also consume's its victim's knowledge.

I can remember some of this and some of the better fiction continues to live on, but I think most of it has been forgotten. Sadly.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-02 AT 11:00PM (GMT)[p]>"You're not even old enough to
>legally drink alcohol in the
>states."
>
>Not my problem, it is your
>strange law, not mine.

That's funny, were did I say that it was "my country"? Once again, you show your lack of reading skills. Truth be told, it's not my law at all. It's not even my country. I'm surprised that a kid of your obvious intelligence would automatically assume something like that.

[link:users.senet.com.au/~dbschah/|DarkUnderlord]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://darkunderlord.freeyellow.com/images/signature_cow.gif
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Moo..... Moo.... I'm an Interplay Cow. (Ready to be milked with a Fallout style MMORPG with aliens!)
 
If you're looking for some literature on the post-nuclear world "vibe", then I'd highly recommend you read Stephen King's The Stand, which is an altogether enjoyable read in itself, and the Dark Tower: Gunslinger, which I shamelessly borrow many ideas from.

The Stand is perhaps an easier book to stomach and is more believeable as Mr. King actually goes to explain how the end of the world comes about. None of that Left Behind junk or cliches that heavily rely on the major world countries nuking each other over remaining petrol.

The Dark Tower books are perhaps my favorite series in the thousand and some books I've read. Its more mythical and you'll probably connect it more to Arcanum than Fallout. But just pick up The Gunslinger, and I guarentee you'll walk away more enriched.

-Courtesy of The Literary Experience

"Credo Ut Intelligam"- I believe so that I may understand.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-02 AT 02:30AM (GMT)[p]Some, in only a setting perspective, are used from a "horror" standpoint. Those are mainly used for what is perceived to be the speculative effects of radiation. Them is a very good example.

I know it's very odd to use it as an example, but if you've looked at Powerman 5000's CD of "Tonight The Stars Revolt!", that is precisely in the style. To the damn letter. That robot is a very good example of a boxy. I'll try to do some scans or find some if needed.

While many of those authors are good, and might have had beginning roots at that time, it's the pulp from which Fallout is largely based, with some other sources (like Forbidden Planet and other sci-fi of that nature), mostly evident from the 10c price tag. The 10c price tag was actually of a time from WWII and before, the price changing after WWII. Mostly it's borrowing from science-fiction for the effects of radiation and life in a post-nuclear society, and a lot of those concepts were fairly outlandish.

I still think it's pretty ironic that the Great Depression gave birth to that kind of art form, and that kind of media, along with theater shows and more. There was really a distinctive time-frame when they were 10c each, but the era of pulp was after the funnies reprint-supplemental print/superhero era, when the superhero popular idea was in wane in favor of science fiction, killer robots, aliens taking over from space, or some other kind of danger. It's also been called in some ways the "dark age" of comics, mainly because the superhero motif wasn't too popular, and many publishers and authors went into the public imagination of science fiction. The resurgence of superhero pulps had a strong science-fiction tint to them, just about across the board. (Hell, most of Superman's powers weren't fleshed out until he hit other mediums. His ability to fly replaced his great jumping ability when he was brought into the animated cartoons.)

The flavor given to the second wave of superhero pulps was of a more "human" nature, with each character having their faults and strong points. It's my personal belief that the burst of short-release sci-fi titles during the "dark age" in the 50's, and how most of them gave a message for humankind (like how monsters were created by radioactive spills, aliens being mistakenly killed and bringing war upon the earth, etc.), helped stir this quite a bit. Certainly the social-spiritual movement of the 60's played a good part in this as well, but I believe a lot of it had its own start in the prior decade's publications.

When I talk about "superhero", I refer to a costumed hero with far than above abilities for whatever reason. Now we're getting into the precise niche I'm talking about. Some ordinary Joe (or athelete star), thrust into a position where they must save humanity or whatever, with whatever they have. Flash Gordon was a good example in many ways, and started some of the designs and styles later seen in other works. Buck Rogers is another one, and it might surprise you to know his origins came from "Anthony 'Buck' Rogers" in the first Amazing Stories. His origins, too, were of an ordinary fellow thrust into odd situations, much like the Vault Dweller or Chosen One. In fact, you could credit Buck for helping spark sci-fi into a wider public imagination.

The Vault Dweller, possibly picked through straws or the initiative to go out, but there's nothing truly special about him other than his deeds. The Chosen One was mainly the same thing, but with some tribal hype behind it. Still your average fellow going out to save the world (or wreck it, to go in a delightful twist from the popular "saviour" bent of most pulps).

To put it another way, it's not the flashy hero with super-powers, but instead what would be seen in the typical B-Movie setting and its hero with opponents/setting, but meant seriously and a mere hint of camp, perhaps. That is the tone.

=======
Bonus to anyone who can say what comic strip's promotionals comic books derived from. ;)

=======

http://www.nma-fallout.com/cgi-bin/forum/User_files/3dffdc8928cd7083.jpg

Another one here:
fallout.scifi.pl/art/f1/inne/loading05.jpg
 
Not quite...the comic strip is the one in question, rather than the name of the comic "compilation". Which comic strip had some promotionals run outside of papers that could very well be the first incarnation of the comic book, and started the comic book media?

Also, not a bad shot of the cover of that PM5k CD, but more of the inside would be great. The inside sheet towards the CD itself has a picture of a genuine robot of that time, I'm still trying to research where it's from. The mail-in form is also another nostalgic thing of note. The history of comic books is just as eventful as that of those who created a lot of those junk mail-in things. Prank items, minor electronic kits, and the Buck Rogers decoder ring.
 
Here are my answers:
"Anata wa baka saru desuka....." (Sang by the tune of Thousand Arms Opening Song. Ask Starseeker about translation.... But i believed you didn't wanna know it....)
But about melee gun is fine. Sword, bow, X-bow. But not that silly-imbecilic-idiotic-stupid-mambojambo-one less IQ and we need to put it in pot and watered it twice a day-FOT weapon called "Dynamite Sticks!!!" Whaddya think you are! Kamikaze! Jibaku! Or Amrozi! (He's the one who made the bomb in Bali....)
Next time,read other thread before you post this....

Anata wa baka saru deska.......
 
Here's Your Idea Set From An Internet Players Eyes.

A Diablo 2 Style Fallout 3.
I figured hey, you want a full layout, Helmet, Different armor, boots, gloves, etc.

The Ultimate Armor on fallout 3...
Arkaine's Armor
50%damage resist/threshold
50%all resist/Threshold
Etc.

The Best Weapon In Fallout 3...
Unarmed.
The Grandfather
100-200 damage
Requires 9 strength to use.
Small Guns.
The Super Sniper Rifle
100-250 Damage
Range of 100.
Big Guns.
A Pair of Ladies Breasts
1000-1000 damage
Range of 25.
(just a joke)
Throwing
The Panzershrek Grenade
100-100 damage, range 15.
Traps.
The poop trap.
Causes Instant Unconsciousness, and loss of 2 life per second due to inconveinant smell.

That's my idea, just to throw that at ya. ;)
Zack
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-02 AT 11:31AM (GMT)[p]Dear Gunslinger-

Yes, I have read both the Dark Tower series and the Stand. Loved the Stand. Robert McCammon also wrote a post nuclear story called Swan's Song, which to me seemed to be a bit too derivative of King's book, but still enjoyable.

Also enjoyed the first volume of the Dark Tower series, but thought the others were a bit slow. Blaine really was a pain. Still looking forward to how they continue.

The thing that King and some of the others do, that I think is so effective, is to take the notion of the apocalyse and make the cause of it the result of science fiction (radiation, killer diseases, etc.)but the aftermath is horror. I think this is an important aspect to the setting of the Fallout universe that has been somewhat forgotten- it's not just science fiction or fantasy, but horrorific consequences of the science fiction that tells the story. That this is a world, once familiar to the player, but now twisted in unpleasant and dangerous ways that not only can hurt you but are creepy and disturbing.

That's something done in Fallout 1 a lot- the Deathclaw from the Hub, the dark creepy derelict setting of Vault 15, Set and the Necropolis, and especially the encounter with the Master. But its also in the small bits. How religion is twisted "Children of the Flame," or people result to cannibalism "Bob's Iguana bits aren't quite lizard you know." You don't see that enough in Fallout 2, and Fallout 3 not at all.

Rather in Fallout 2 it seems the game is too caught up in being happy with itself. Rather than develop that horror it makes a parody of popular culture- boxing in new reno, monty python, "The good, the Bad, and the Ugly." But these popular culture bits are consistent with 1990s Popular culture and not 1950s.

I cracked open the "Left Behind" books once and tried to read the first chapter and had to put it down. Just terrible.

Frankly, Harlan Ellison's a Boy and his Dog reminds me a lot of the Fallout universe. I have been thinking of picking up Alas Babylon which I heard is Post apocalyptic. There is supposedly a pretty good post apocalyse story by James Herbert out there as well.

Lost of stuff to read.
Cheers!
 
RE: Goodbye (N/T)

These are things I want in Fallout 3:

More Party Control: Instead of telling each person "put your weapon away" or whatever you can just do a group option and everyone stays where they are,etc.

Even more story depth based on game play: Like if Vic gets killed his daughter will know and react to it.

NPC's wear the armor you give them. Would be nice that everyone can be seen wearing power suits or whatever you give them.

Get to fly a verta(sp?) bird

Pointless side quests rule, give me more in F3.

A light saber, that would rule.

Sure most of these have been brougt up before but damit I just wish they would hurry up and make a new Fallout!
 
RE: Goodbye (N/T)

>These are things I want in
>Fallout 3:
>
>More Party Control: Instead of telling
>each person "put your weapon
>away" or whatever you can
>just do a group option
>and everyone stays where they
>are,etc.

Nice, i only hope your not suggesting anything like BG. I would like some general commands like you said that instead to tell every NPC individually to put their weapon away, i could tell them all together.

>
>Even more story depth based on
>game play: Like if Vic
>gets killed his daughter will
>know and react to it.

Nothing against this

>
>
>NPC's wear the armor you give
>them. Would be nice that
>everyone can be seen wearing
>power suits or whatever you
>give them.

Why not.

>
>Get to fly a verta(sp?) bird
>

You going off the deep end here.


>
>Pointless side quests rule, give me
>more in F3.

OK


>
>A light saber, that would rule.

Oh brother 'shakes head in disbelief'


>I just wish they would
>hurry up and make a
>new Fallout!


As do we all.

JR

Nunc ut nunquam
 
RE: Goodbye (N/T)

>>A light saber, that would rule.

Hey, someone rehashed my lightsaber plea. Good job. Is that shirt flame-proof?

"Credo Ut Intelligam"- I believe so that I may understand.
 
RE: Goodbye (N/T)

I should just add about flying a verta bird I mean it would be like using a car not full out flying one for like a mission or something. Maybe you would need it since in Fallout 3 there will be some major cross country travling.

My shirt flame proof? It is due to the fact no one on this board can say for sure what can and what cannot be in Fallout 3. Unless they work at interplay and have fallout 3 project reports in front of them they know no more then I do. They would like to disagree with that becuase they know its true and it hurts them deep down inside.
 
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