Stalker.

no clue, I never played Dota2. It probably isnt true for EVERY F2Play game out there, but it certainly feels like many of them are always "in development" rather then a finished product. It seems to me, like they say a lot before the game is "released", usualy just a change of numbers in the patch ... like from 0.6 to 1.0 or something like that ... but there is only a very slow progression and development after release where pretty much nothing changes but the game still doesnt feel "complete".

I am not saying F2P games have to suck or something like that. I just have the feeling that many of them just dont feel like a finished product.
 
Crni Vuk said:
no clue, I never played Dota2. It probably isnt true for EVERY F2Play game out there, but it certainly feels like many of them are always "in development" rather then a finished product. It seems to me, like they say a lot before the game is "released", usualy just a change of numbers in the patch ... like from 0.6 to 1.0 or something like that ... but there is only a very slow progression and development after release where pretty much nothing changes but the game still doesnt feel "complete".

I am not saying F2P games have to suck or something like that. I just have the feeling that many of them just dont feel like a finished product.
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Why make such a statement if you can't stand behind it?

I think the problem is that free-to-play games usually don't have as big a budget as pay-to-play games. But there's absolutely nothing about the free-to-play model that inherently makes a game bad and/or low quality.

I for one am glad the free-to-play model is becoming so popular, because it's counteracting the ridiculous costs of the standard MMO over the last decade and it helps indie developers get their games out and gain a player base. And in the end, it is much more reliant on actual fun gameplay that makes people want to pay to keep playing, instead of making people feel forced to play because they paid for it.
 
Crni Vuk said:
no clue, I never played Dota2. It probably isnt true for EVERY F2Play game out there, but it certainly feels like many of them are always "in development" rather then a finished product. It seems to me, like they say a lot before the game is "released", usualy just a change of numbers in the patch ... like from 0.6 to 1.0 or something like that ... but there is only a very slow progression and development after release where pretty much nothing changes but the game still doesnt feel "complete".

I am not saying F2P games have to suck or something like that. I just have the feeling that many of them just dont feel like a finished product.
Click to expand...

Well a lot of them are growing/expanding so in that way it may not feel like it's done. And that is not really a bad thing for an online game.

aenemic. I do like F2P to in certain ways. Like you can play the game for free but there is things you can buy to support the game like Dota 2 etc. As long as they keep away from the pay to win part i'm all for it.
 
aenemic said:
Why make such a statement if you can't stand behind it?
Click to expand...
because its my opinion that most F2P games cant reach the quality of full price products.

you guys really take this to seriously. I am not telling you here like all fre2play games are outright "shit" or that you cant play or enjoy them and neither are ALL full price games offering you the best possible experience, I do understand very well that this has a lot of "in between" games.

I just personally prefer games with a start and release as far as the development goes. Like Guild Wars for example, if it has to be some online experience. I prefer, if possible, simply to have a "physical" product that I can pay for and have the feeling that I have access to ALL the content in front of me without any additional costs.

F2P games have often the problem, that complaints or criticism is meet with the "who cares! You don't have to pay for it!" problem, while something with a clear price tag should, at leats in theory, offer you a different kind of quality and it gives you a chance to demand this quality, because you payed for it.
 
PC GAMER had a nice issue in Aug. (I think) about free PC gaming. It had a section on the best F2P games. I think LoL was there, as well as LOTR:Online. Hawken was there too. Hmm. Maybe TF2 and like one or two other games. And that was it. Two page section max.
 
Weapon degrading is ok as long as it doesn't decrease the damage done by a round fired from it. Barrel get scrached and guns degrade fast when fired in full-auto. However the damage a weapon does would not chance. Hate both FO3/NV for that reason in terms of weapons. S.T.A.L.K.E.R was never about MP. It's fine for a "Hey, let's all shoot at each other" type MP but the real thing is in SP. Without a good main story, there's no good in a stalker game. Survarium looks outstanding. The graphics are superb. However with no campaign mode, I'm not going bat an eye. I just miss a new title sometime. I own all 3 games (got the bundle for super low price) and I'm very happy with them. Sad that the company went down. I really wish it didn't but they tripped over a mine. F2P isn't going to revive the fans of the series.
 
yeah, except that it usually isnt done correctly. Degrading weapons doesnt make much sense. Cleaning weapons on the other hand, thats what you should do. But even that, depends a lot on the weapon you use.

Most assault rifles are quite capable of firing more then 10 000 rounds without many issues. Hell there is the video I have seen from a weapon manufacturer where they do exactly that. They fire several thousand rounds, once the weapon got "to hot" they have simply thrown it in a puddle of mud, reloaded the thing and continued to fire more rounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhchLz1SeU8
The FNL in the "mud test".

I am sure not a weapon expert, Suaside and many other people here can tell you more. But what I know, is that the reliability of a gun has a lot to do with its design.

To have a system where you need to check your guns is "alright". But the way how it was done in Stalker? Very anoying. You almost cant fire a whole magazin with some weapons before they start to become useless. For a game where shooting is such a huge part of it, this can be quite a noisance.

I say it again. To have a system where you have to keep your weapons in good conditions is not a bad thing. As long its done well.
 
Agreed. However, the setting is PA and it has been years since the weapons were manufactured in true factories (instead of local blacksmiths). You could forgive the weapon degrading a little more because the conditions they're facing everyday in a wasteland is a little too harsh for what they have been designed to withstand. Radiation, corrotion, dust, sand, magnatization, low grade ammunition, melee attacks, etc.. Your weapon gets damaged greatly if you drop it on a hard surface from a great hight. Not every weapon (game varient FN2000,GP37,AMR,LMG,etc.. ) isn't made to withstand harsh conditions like the AK or the new AKM which are not included in the game (chinece AR cameo). If you fire a weapon on full auto for a long duration, chances are the weapon would misfire, jam or happen serious damage to the wepon. AK has a rotating bolt mechanisam which is not seen in many assault rifles in the games and that makes warsaw pact weapons have greater durability and special characteristics (abakan being able to fire two rounds at the same point using 2 round burst mode). Anyway, I always wanted to side step an enemy when I'm out of ammo and do a devastating two handed malee attack gripping the gun from the barrel, cracking the opponents skull and damaging the weapon a lot in the process..
 
The setting isn't PA. Why does everyone keep thinking it is? The Zone is really just that, a zone. Outside the world is peachy as always. Sure, many weapons are a bit older, but there are many shiny new weapons, especially with the groups that are in the Zone on an official basis (Military and Scientists for example).
And most modern weapons really are made to be extremely reliable and easy to clean without tools.
Also, rotating bolt is the key for reliability of Warsaw Pact weapons? Well, the M16, the FN2000, the Sig550 and the G36 have those, too, as far as I know.
The weapon degradation in STALKER is way too much, no doubt about it. But it's a gameplay element I can suspend my disbelief for, because while it is annoying sometimes it does add a certain sense of danger when your gun is dirty and about to jam often.
 
Sorry if you misunderstood the PA setting. I was thinking about the general setting of Fallout and Wasteland when I said about weapons manufacturing facilities and local gunsmiths. Any fool would know that nobody is mass producing (or even a single unit per day) weapons in the zone. Most of the weapons in the zone are from the black market. Old rifles, pistols that were replaced by newer versions (AK, AKM, etc..) and weapons traded for artifacts with the army, weapons brought to the zony by science teams and so on. It's not difficult to understand. Rotating bolt isn't the only reason for the ruggedness of the warsaw weapons in games. Simplicity, balanced parts and excellent raw meterials make superb weapons. IMO, AS50 (.50MG) semi-automatic sniper rifle deserves more attention in games because it is pretty easy to clean, light weight (2 minutes without tools) and deadly in the right hands. Light .50cal is better than anything but because it is a bolt action sniper rifle, the ROF is highly affected negatively. However the range and stopping power of the Light .50cal is untoucable by anything but a .50BMG. Instead this weapon is not seen in many games. With the argumant I made I guess you can figure out the reason here.
To the point, weapon degrading isn't done perfectly well in stalker. Specially in SOC where you can't repair your newly bought GP37 after a long fire fight. CS did a better job and I actually like it more than SOC and COP. Stalker did a better job at decipting it better that Fallout ever did. Your weapon is jamming? Fine. It won't make the bullets hit the target like the rain on a cloudy day. In Fallout it's a total diffrent story. Almost as if the all guns were leaking propellent gases from the butt or something..
 
I will say this again, I am NOT a pro with guns. The little bit I know is from reading, particularly stuff like weapons.ru and other websites.

As far as the AK goes and weapons using a similar configuration, like the SVD Dragunov, get their reliability mainly from the fact that the weapon has so huge tolerances. The parts inside the weapon which move, like the firing pin, have usually the biggest problem I think. Sand, dirt can cause issues for the mechanical parts. The AK-Family is build with a lot of extra space (I think?) to make up for that part. Not to mention that it has really a very crude design mostly because one guideline was that it should be possible to build the AK anywhere in the Sovietunion. A lesson they learned from WW2.

Also, maybe you mixed up rotating bolts with open and closed bolt mechanisms? There seem to be a few differences here like accuracy, maintenance etc. But I am not really sure. I never understood that completely.
 
Yeah, I'm just like you. As I've said before, (not here) I don't have internet on my PC so I'm using a very old phone to reply. Spelling-wise my posts are total disasters. I don't have a way of checking my spelling before I post so I should make it clear just before I make myself look like a dumb cod play. To the topic, my uncle in the army (36 years in the army and still kicking) has a lot in his head about the AK/AKM/T-56. He told me that an AK could never hit the same spot twise. He stand correct. Tolerence is the key here. The barrel of the gun is made with top qulity metal. The fitting shoul be tight enough to let the propelent gas to not leak and loose enough to let the bullet pass without damaging the barrel. It is so fun to learn about weapons and how they work. Although in games we play these facts are altered to suit the titles. In Fallout, you don't have bullet-drop. In stalker you have that in the face, you like it or not. It is something I've always loved. Enemy AI isn't affected by it but still that was a huge leap in FPS gen. In NV I always shoot that lone coyote that is walking on the cliff above the Goodsprings Cave with my 10mm pistol (true ironsightes) standing on the road close to the bar. No bullet drop. Anyway I guess it is difficult to do with that shitty engine. The true fun is when you burst snipe with your FT2000 using AP ammo. As I said before, even with that weapon it is hard to hit the same spot twise when you need to. (double tap). Realism wise, stalker is light years ahead of Fallout..
 
I don't think that it should be a problem with the Fallout 3 engine, at all. I mean its not like there are that many gun fights, since most of the time you don't fight more then 5 or 10 targets at a time. ballistics for bullets has been done before on games as far back like UT99. I think some old realism mod for Unreal Tournament had even bullet penetration at least for some objects.

Though considering what "job" the Fallout 3 developers did with F3s engine ... I am not surprised that they shy away from ballistics and even something like bullet penetration, in fact many of the textures in the game are bigger then the object ... which means invisible corners that eat your bullets. F3 and New Vegas are both so full of bugs ... maybe better they never bothered to give it some bullet ballistics.

Albeit if done well, it should be no problem at all.
 
Gamebyro is shit as it is. If they knew how to do it right, it would've still been unreal if they had implimented it. Imagine FO3 sniper rifle. It was almost impossible to score a headshot without V.A.T.S. To have bullet drop to have a real effect, a new engine would definitly be needed. XRAY and Gamebyro suffer from very near draw distance. Bullet drop won't even matter at the range that objects pop up. Stalker has cover penetration. You hide behind a metal objects and if the enemy (monolith) is using AP rounds you will get hit. Same is for wooden cover. Sandbags offer full cover iirc.
 
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