Stances

[Roshambo]

Oh? And I suppose you're waiting with baited breathe for the release of the apparently graphics heavy / content light Fallout deriative coming out on XBox and PS2, are you?

Clueless hyperbole, 10 yeard penalty.

Sure you are. (And you know, I love it when people say they have "experience with game design". Got a portfolio I or others can peruse? Why are you modding a fan site, did your experience not translate to steady work?)

It's called "something I do in my spare time for free", since I have enough money made through my previous work that I never have to work for another day in my life, and I do so look forward to waterskiing all this summer, sit back and sip martinis by the lake, visit my friend in his castle, and other things that you'll probably never be able to enjoy despite how hard you work.

Have a nice life.

 

[Brother None]

Damn, when you people bash, you bas hard, don't you? No beating about the bush, I suppose...

 

[I/O Error]

Hey I/O Error? What's the first thing they teach you in math class? TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FOUR. That's what's going on in Fallout Tactics when you go from standing to prone, you're wasting four action points while the enemy is using that same amount of time putting bullets in your ignorant ass.

...which, of course, assumes that I pop back up IMMEDIATELY or that I am behind a wall to begin with.

In combat in this game my guys go prone almost immediately, even if they're in the open. This gives them accuracy, something I need since I prefer long range battles.

Let me give you an example where you're wrong about the consequences of using those 4 AP points. In Junction City, I advanced to meet the Reavers. Now, at one point near those low walls I got too close and allowed my guys to get chewed up by a few minigunners and snipers. I had them all crouch behind a wall and healed them. Then, I had one of them stand up, get fired at by the few Reavers who decided to overwatch me. (about 2 out of 5 that were within range, on average) This was definitely acceptable to me, especially since most of the time they used burst fire and missed anyway. It also allowed me to unashamedly use the trick that a single man being shot at with burst will be missed more often than a group.

Once the overwatch bloodletting was done, the REST of my men stood up and loosed a volley. They all then crouched again, and I repeated the process next turn.

End result? I fired fewer shots per turn, but nobody got killed and the rate they got hit was ALSO reduced because I did not have to sit through the ENTIRE enemy turn and have them beat the shit out of my guys. If I had NOT been given the option of changing my stance, my options would have been to either retreat to a less favorable position or be slaughtered. Stance is a good thing when properly used.

I mean for Christ's sake, what's our other option, IGNORE the fact that our characters have goddamn knees that can bend?!

 

[I/O Error]

Clueless hyperbole, 10 yeard penalty.

Tell me something about the new Fallout game that is, in fact, not just a baldfaced attempt to exploit the Fallout franchise. Come on.

Give me a break Roshambo, this is just pathetic what you're doing. You're disagreeing with me about the XBox/PS2 game SIMPLY because it's me. Get a grip pal.

It's called "something I do in my spare time for free", since I have enough money made through my previous work that I never have to work for another day in my life, and I do so look forward to waterskiing all this summer, sit back and sip martinis by the lake, visit my friend in his castle, and other things that you'll probably never be able to enjoy despite how hard you work.

Have a nice life.

I absolutely plan to continue doing so.

 

[Roshambo]

Clueless hyperbole, 10 yeard penalty.

Tell me something about the new Fallout game that is, in fact, not just a baldfaced attempt to exploit the Fallout franchise. Come on.

Give me a break Roshambo, this is just pathetic what you're doing. You're disagreeing with me about the XBox/PS2 game SIMPLY because it's me. Get a grip pal.

Who said I was disagreeing with you? I said that "You know what's funny? Someone else is going to end up parroting your clueless tripe for that game."

Which means that no matter how awful that game is going to be, someone is going to defend it in light of something else or perhaps a much worse game down the line.

Learn how to read. You're an incredibly dumb shit when you want to be, I'll hand you that.

 

[I/O Error]

Who said I was disagreeing with you? I said that "You know what's funny? Someone else is going to end up parroting your clueless tripe for that game."

Wow. You just have a stunning lack of logic in that little brain of yours. Let's see. You dislike the concept of the new game, I dislike the concept of the new game. Yet you say I'm completely wrong in my opinions. (Yes Ro, news flash. If you agree with me about the new game, then my opinion is unlikely to be "clueless tripe". Got that this time)

Seeing as how it's quite late, it's time to sleep and peruse the forums another day.

 

[Roshambo]

Wow. You just have a stunning lack of logic in that little brain of yours. Let's see. You dislike the concept of the new game, I dislike the concept of the new game. Yet you say I'm completely wrong in my opinions. (Yes Ro, news flash. If you agree with me about the new game, then my opinion is unlikely to be "clueless tripe". Got that this time)

Pretty weak. Just because I disagree with you about staying to a game's roots keeps the fandom and thusly the strength of a game (you know, like why FOT went down the drain and why the new 'Fallout' game isn't like at all), doesn't mean that I disagree with you about the new game being crap.

Even someone just reading your last post could figure out exactly where you have your head firmly up your ass. Including in the other thread.

Seeing as how it's quite late, it's time to sleep and peruse the forums another day.

Don't bother. You're banned, troll-boy. The goading of PMs about Fallout FPS, when it was you that trolled already about it before and flamed me in another thread about it, cemented it. Either you need a memory or a clue.

EDIT: Oh, wait...I see the problem with your reading problem. Let me see if I could break it down for you:

"You know what's funny? Someone else is going to end up parroting your clueless tripe for that game."

Since it's already obvious that I don't like the game and you don't like the game, there's really only one way the above can be taken.

Someone else is going to end up parroting your clueless tripe.

They are going to do it in defense of that game, for the same reason you do it for FOT.

 

[Reaper]

Okay Rosh, don't be mad at me but I read your comment as meaning 'oh great, now more people are going to say the new game is crap because this clueless idiot said so.'

I know I am not dumb because my friends. despite being smaller and weaker than me, keep trying to beat me because I am always beat them in exams.

I would put this incident down to two people unwilling to concede any points without loosing a hip-shot at the other participant, which leads to misunderstandings and a cycle of angry comments spiralling towards abuse.

I saw screenshots of the new game and I didn't like the look of it.
I did like Fallout Tactics but I know not everyone agrees with me and that is fine, they don't have to keep playing it, discussing it or rubbishing it while they could go and talk about a game they did like.

 

[Roshambo]

Courtesy Link

 

[*The REAL Devil*]

in fallout 3 it have to be stance what ever erybody else says, cause i am the MASTER OF THE WOELD, soon i think

 

[JJ86]

in fallout 3 it have to be stance what ever erybody else says, cause i am the MASTER OF THE WOELD, soon i think

Devil, do you know what a MASTER BATOR is?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

...which, of course, assumes that I pop back up IMMEDIATELY or that I am behind a wall to begin with.

Standing to crouched = 2AP
Crouching to prone = 2AP

2AP + 2AP = 4AP

In combat in this game my guys go prone almost immediately, even if they're in the open. This gives them accuracy, something I need since I prefer long range battles.

That immediately still equals 4AP, which is also the time it takes for the other guys to shoot you.

Let me give you an example where you're wrong about the consequences of using those 4 AP points.

Oh, please do.

In Junction City, I advanced to meet the Reavers. Now, at one point near those low walls I got too close and allowed my guys to get chewed up by a few minigunners and snipers.

Those must be the new and improved Reavers, because the ones I fought only used energy weapons and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with them.

 

[Reaper]

If the Reavers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with their weapons what is the problem wiht giving thme a chance to fire? If they miss, it won't matter but will give you a chance to make a good accurate shot and duck down, so they cannot target you in your turn.

Maybe I used different settings but when I played, I could sneak up behind a low wall, then rise to a crouch and open fire before any nearby enemies got off a shot. My playing experiences suggest that using the stances works.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

If the Reavers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with their weapons what is the problem wiht giving thme a chance to fire? If they miss, it won't matter but will give you a chance to make a good accurate shot and duck down, so they cannot target you in your turn.

Which is why it's a poor example of why stances work, because most everything else can do a decent job of hitting you.

Maybe I used different settings but when I played, I could sneak up behind a low wall, then rise to a crouch and open fire before any nearby enemies got off a shot. My playing experiences suggest that using the stances works.

I'd say you need to reisntall and check again then.

 

[Jinxed]

That immediately still equals 4AP, which is also the time it takes for the other guys to shoot you.

If you have something to hide behind, yes, it is a good idea. You need to save 2aps and it will save you from a hail of bullets after you finish your turn. But crouching in the middle of the desert in open space makes no sense.

What I think is this is fallout, it's an RPG and those elements mentioned make it closer to FOT JA2 and so on, these are tactical games, something which FO never was and shouldn't be.

 

[Miroslav]

Standing to crouched = 2AP
Crouching to prone = 2AP

2AP + 2AP = 4AP

sp, I would put that 3APs, you need a less time to go to prone from stand than doing both actions together. When you go to prone, you don't do the same actions as when crounching, the procedure is different.

I'm telling you this from experience, I went through this military training. As a matter of fact, I could never crouch properly and needed more time to do that than prone

 

[Ozrat]

I personally think that adding stances would be a great benefit to the combat settings. As for the whole "it's wasting AP!" argument, well, they're not your AP so why not let somebody else "waste" them if they want to? Honestly, who really is going to just stay standing like a fool when they could just hit the ground and pray for their lives?

Which brings up the interesting aspect of melee/h-t-h fighting in different stances. This could lead to somebody lying on the ground around the corner just waiting for the guard to come walking by and do a critical hit to the legs with a knife, reducing their walking ability... Or maybe some capoeria martial arts, which can be best described as breakdance fighting... Okay, I know I'm being stupid and anti-fallout with the capoeria thingy because its roots are in Brazillian slavery, so just ignore that part. But you could still scissor kick or something.

 

[Jinxed]

Well, just remember that being on the ground without an obstruction is REALLY bad, your AC drops to ZERO. The whole thing would have to be redone.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

If you have something to hide behind, yes, it is a good idea. You need to save 2aps and it will save you from a hail of bullets after you finish your turn. But crouching in the middle of the desert in open space makes no sense.

.1 AP is enough to get that hail of bullets in you. When you're spotted, all the enemies set to fire will fire. The To-Hit calculation is done right then and there. Regardless of travel time of the bullets, you will get hit by them.

sp, I would put that 3APs, you need a less time to go to prone from stand than doing both actions together. When you go to prone, you don't do the same actions as when crounching, the procedure is different.

This argument was made on the Ipterplay forum for FOT. It's probably just as fast, in reality, to crouch from standing as it is to fall on your belly from standing.

Of course, that's not how the game mechanics work, though. It's 4AP.

I'm telling you this from experience, I went through this military training. As a matter of fact, I could never crouch properly and needed more time to do that than prone

Anyone that's played American Football knows this, too. There's a toughness drill all couches make players do which involves running in place, then hitting the dirt when the whistle blows, then when the whistle blows again, going back to standing as fast as possible.

I hated that drill.

I personally think that adding stances would be a great benefit to the combat settings. As for the whole "it's wasting AP!" argument, well, they're not your AP so why not let somebody else "waste" them if they want to? Honestly, who really is going to just stay standing like a fool when they could just hit the ground and pray for their lives?

So.. Your point is, "Regardless of how stupid it is, development time should be wasted on it because it looks cool"? That argument's been made, and it's certainly not the most intelligent one.

Or maybe some capoeria martial arts, which can be best described as breakdance fighting...

Ummm... Yeah..

Okay, I know I'm being stupid and anti-fallout with the capoeria thingy because its roots are in Brazillian slavery, so just ignore that part. But you could still scissor kick or something.

Even a scissor kick, or any other type of kung fu move, wouldn't mesh well with Fallout.

 

[Jinxed]

SP, are you talking about real time realism or what? Because the turn starts and you can do anything with your ap's. FO 1 allowed you to access your inventory using as little as 3 ap's. You were then able to reload your gun, reload your other gun even tough it was a rocket launcher, take drugs stimpacks ect...

Would that warrant a hail of bullets as well?