Starfield

[Morgan_]

Gonna go out on a limb and say that it will be better than Andromeda in all the ways it could be. Probably gonna be better then Outer Worlds as well, not that these are high bars that mark a good game if passed. What other good space operas are there other than ME1?


On the bright side for a lot of people here you're going to see renewed interest in space opera indie games from this. Either from it managing to be good, or being a flop and leaving a desire unfilled.

 

[The_Proletarian]

At least they wont be ruining lore from previous games with this new franchise.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

At least they wont be ruining lore from previous games with this new franchise.

I read a rumor somewhere a while back that Bethesda wanted to combine the Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Starfield into a single timeline or universe.
Of course this could be some kind of fan wishing but you never know.

 

[maximaz]

I read a rumor somewhere a while back that Bethesda wanted to combine the Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Starfield into a single timeline or universe.
Of course this could be some kind of fan wishing but you never know.

Was there not a hint of this in Fallout 4? You find a room with some newly mutated plants somewhere or something and one of them is nirnroot from TES.

Someone put out a theory that this means Fallout was a prequel to TES. That the society never recovered and all the TES races were mutants. Some shit like that.

 

[Morgan_]

That is so retarded a small part of me kinda wishes they go with that.

 

[eissa]

Yeah, science fiction has really been in decline as has space opera as Star Wars isn't really science fiction.
Star Trek used to be about introducing scientific and speculated science in an entertaining way to people while telling stories with with social allegories.
Star Wars, especially its spin off material was about exciting adventures that took people to strange and fantastic places with un-imagined creatures.

You ever tried Iain Banks's Culture series? Or Xeelee Sequence, which manage to be more grimderp than 40K.

 

[ResetRPG]

Gonna go out on a limb and say that it will be better than Andromeda in all the ways it could be. Probably gonna be better then Outer Worlds as well, not that these are high bars that mark a good game if passed. What other good space operas are there other than ME1?


On the bright side for a lot of people here you're going to see renewed interest in space opera indie games from this. Either from it managing to be good, or being a flop and leaving a desire unfilled.

Weirdly enough, I'm excited for Starfield.

I don't think it'll be particularly earth shattering. But I think it'll be a fun time. Personally I enjoy Bethesda games even though they are riddled with flaws because they're kind of like junk food. It's not deep mechanically, but it's fun and ends up having good eye candy in the world you get to explore.

Either way, my tolerance for mechanically shallow Bethesda-esque Role Playing games is fairly high, given my enjoyment of Fallout 3, 4 and Outer Worlds. As always, your mileage will vary with these games, especially when you're in as niche a community as this one.

 

[Morgan_]

Weirdly enough, I'm excited for Starfield.

I don't think it'll be particularly earth shattering. But I think it'll be a fun time. Personally I enjoy Bethesda games even though they are riddled with flaws because they're kind of like junk food. It's not deep mechanically, but it's fun and ends up having good eye candy in the world you get to explore.

Either way, my tolerance for mechanically shallow Bethesda-esque Role Playing games is fairly high, given my enjoyment of Fallout 3, 4 and Outer Worlds. As always, your mileage will vary with these games, especially when you're in as niche a community as this one.

Yeah, not really much to be let down by yet. No Man's Sky is it's own thing, Star Citizen is a playable tech demo and Mass Effect was between 2007 and 2013 for me. I think it'll be a pretty decent stab at space operas. It should get the genre chugging along again.

Can't be worse than Cyberpunk. Not that I catually disliked Cyberpunk.

Also, nice to see you back.

 

[ResetRPG]

Yeah, not really much to be let down by yet. No Man's Sky is it's own thing, Star Citizen is a playable tech demo and Mass Effect was between 2007 and 2013 for me. I think it'll be a pretty decent stab at space operas. It should get the genre chugging along again.

Can't be worse than Cyberpunk. Not that I catually disliked Cyberpunk.

Also, nice to see you back.

Oh absolutely, plus you can do a lot worse than Bethesda tbh.

With their penchant for crafting really good open worlds that are filled with shit and fun to explore, a space opera seems to be right up their alley honestly.

Hopefully Bethesda does take some valuable lesson from the criticism given to them from their Fallout titles and makes their games better. But considering it's Bethesda, I don't really think that will happen- plus our community's taste isn't really representative of the gaming market at large.

Also on the topic of Cyberpunk, I actually liked Cyberpunk. It was obviously no Witcher 3, but the game kept me engaged until the end. It's riddled with flaws both technical and design wise, but considering I didn't play it until about 8 months after launch when there were a lot of patches, I don't really have a similar perspective to those who suffered through that mess at launch. I'd rate it a solid 3-3.5 stars tbh.

Also, thank you! Glad to be back on the forum! Been on a bit of a JRPG binge lately for whatever reason. Currently playing through Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana, with Dragon Quest 1, 2, 3 and a replay of 11 lined up next!

 

[Hassknecht]

You ever tried Iain Banks's Culture series? Or Xeelee Sequence, which manage to be more grimderp than 40K.

Man, Xeelee Sequence has fucking everything and goes beyond the scale of everything else. Absolutely awesome.

 

[eissa]

Man, Xeelee Sequence has fucking everything and goes beyond the scale of everything else. Absolutely awesome.

You got a statement there, but yeah it's awesome. Till getting curbstomped by a sublimed Culture Mind. Or if those Green Ship operators can pull the trigger first. But Iain Banks had passed away long ago, so that goodness of being optimistic in this world. So win for Xeelee by the virtue of more stories written in the future, yay?

I never think you can insert goddamn child soldiers in freaking hard Sci Fi, but damn whoever wrote Xeelee did it big time. With deep ocean dark lore that make Daemoncubi looks cutey by comparison.

Surprisingly, there is an anime/manga series that is basically bright version of Xeelee. Or maybe Doctor Who. But you know, maybe those japanese did read a lot of those high tier scifi stuff and attempt to market them to much more wider audiences.

But yeah, you can't be more curbstomped in universe with time travel being weaponized, part of grand strategy that basically make 5D Chess practical, and worse the idea of your quantum version of better you being not allowed to exist is just even more grimdark.

 

[Hassknecht]

You got a statement there, but yeah it's awesome. Till getting curbstomped by a sublimed Culture Mind. Or if those Green Ship operators can pull the trigger first. But Iain Banks had passed away long ago, so that goodness of being optimistic in this world. So win for Xeelee by the virtue of more stories written in the future, yay?

I never think you can insert goddamn child soldiers in freaking hard Sci Fi, but damn whoever wrote Xeelee did it big time. With deep ocean dark lore that make Daemoncubi looks cutey by comparison.

Surprisingly, there is an anime/manga series that is basically bright version of Xeelee. Or maybe Doctor Who. But you know, maybe those japanese did read a lot of those high tier scifi stuff and attempt to market them to much more wider audiences.

But yeah, you can't be more curbstomped in universe with Time Travel being weaponized, part of grand strategy that basically make 5D chess practical, and worse the idea of your quantum version of better you being not allowed to exist is just even more grimdark.

I like that the Xeelee Sequence flipflops between being supremely grimdark and fucked up and just being outright imaginative and weird at a scope beyond what other authors can pull off. Maybe Vernor Vinge or Dan Simmons (the Zones of Thought and the Hyperion Cantos books are highly recommended to anyone looking for high quality Space Opera).

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

You ever tried Iain Banks's Culture series? Or Xeelee Sequence, which manage to be more grimderp than 40K.

Hello Eissa,

I know of both book series. I remember looking up the Xeelee trilogy on Ebay a while back but I don't recall why I did not get it.
Maybe because I still need to finish the Reality Dysfunction trilogy books.

Even more darker than W40K?
Yeah I read somewhere that humans really went extremist after having been subjugated not once, but twice by two different alien species.
One I remember wanted to erase human culture or human individualism to make humans easier to control.

I don't mind stories with a bit of darkness in them but occasionally I would also like to read something with a bit more optimism.
Perhaps that is a bit simplistic or juvenile thinking.

Bit frustrating that I have nothing to add to your and Hassknecht's conversaion about space opera.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Was there not a hint of this in Fallout 4? You find a room with some newly mutated plants somewhere or something and one of them is nirnroot from TES.

Someone put out a theory that this means Fallout was a prequel to TES. That the society never recovered and all the TES races were mutants. Some shit like that.

Ah, so that is where I got this rumor from.

That is so retarded a small part of me kinda wishes they go with that.

Well it would definitely help with making Bethesda's Fallout easier to 'decanonize' (got that word from my Star Trek days)/made non official should the franchise ever be handled by another studio.
But yeah, the more it gets ruined, the faster the IP will loose its followers.

 

[Hassknecht]

Hello Eissa,

I know of both book series. I remember looking up the Xeelee trilogy on Ebay a while back but I don't recall why I did not get it.
Maybe because I still need to finish the Reality Dysfunction trilogy books.

Even more darker than W40K?
Yeah I read somewhere that humans really went extremist after having been subjugated not once, but twice by two different alien species.
One I remember wanted to erase human culture or human individualism to make humans easier to control.

I don't mind stories with a bit of darkness in them but occasionally I would also like to read something with a bit more optimism.
Perhaps that is a bit simplistic or juvenile thinking.

Bit frustrating that I have nothing to add to your and Hassknecht's conversaion about space opera.

It's not only grimdark, and occasionally quite hopeful. I mean, it's a serious of books literally spanning the entire duration of the universe, you'll get some quite non-grimdark content, and it's actually kinda sorta hopeful in the end.
One of the better Space Operas I've read in recent days was Andreas Eschbach's The Carpet Makers and its prequel Quest, the latter of which hasn't been translated to English yet. Both are pretty much classic Space Opera of absolutely grandiose scale that doesn't really give a shit about being realistic or technically feasible, but only really wants to tell a story.
And there's something about stories taking place so far in the future that humanity even forgot from which galaxy it came originally, and where a Star Emperor is so powerful he'll decide to conquer another whole galaxy just because it's something to do.
Also pretty neat Space Opera I've read recently was Ancestral Machines by Michael Cobley.

 

[Millim]

I'm kind of looking forward to Starfield too.
I think I've gone past the point of getting angry/frustrated with Bethesda's stance on RPGs and just want to a mindless fun time with an open world Space environment.

I don't expect it to be the best thing ever, at the same time, I don't think it's going to be the worst thing ever.
What I expect is a mildly amusing mid game that I can pick up on Sale and just be like "yeah, that was fine".

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Hello Hasknecht

It's not only grimdark, and occasionally quite hopeful. I mean, it's a serious of books literally spanning the entire duration of the universe, you'll get some quite non-grimdark content, and it's actually kinda sorta hopeful in the end.

Okay, I admit that for a while I had lost my interest as I really don't care for grimdark.
I know that W40K should be seen as taking the concepts in the setting to the absurd extreme, but I think at the point that universe is in a big crunch of other interstellar calamity that wipes out existence would be a kindness.
It is a universe I genuinely don't want to have any interest in. Perhaps only from a gaming point of view when the group I am part of plays a game in it.

One of the better Space Operas I've read in recent days was Andreas Eschbach's The Carpet Makers and its prequel Quest, the latter of which hasn't been translated to English yet. Both are pretty much classic Space Opera of absolutely grandiose scale that doesn't really give a shit about being realistic or technically feasible, but only really wants to tell a story.
And there's something about stories taking place so far in the future that humanity even forgot from which galaxy it came originally, and where a Star Emperor is so powerful he'll decide to conquer another whole galaxy just because it's something to do.

I actually read the original German book more than two decades ago as part of German class. The students had to read German books in order to write reports about them.
Quite some dark moments in that book such as the whole explanation behind why the carpets are made.
Also one of the few books I have read that had not single main protagonist as the story is told from multiple characters' point of view.
It helped that I was already a fan of Star Trek so I understood some of the concepts and ideas in the story.
Definitely a tale in which immortality is sometimes not so much as a blessing as a curse.

I did not know BTW that the book had a prequel. I should look it up though I wish there was an English version.

In a way the book kind of reminded me of Dune. At least the descriptions I have read about that book.

 

[Hassknecht]

Yeah, The Carpet Makers gets quite dark, and so does the prequel Quest. But its not the point of the setting, just part of the very space operatic style of bigger and more Eschbach was going for.

 

[The_Proletarian]

Man, Xeelee Sequence has fucking everything and goes beyond the scale of everything else. Absolutely awesome.

Thank you for the tip! I just took a trip downtown and purchased a copy of Raft.

 

[eissa]

Hello Eissa,

I know of both book series. I remember looking up the Xeelee trilogy on Ebay a while back but I don't recall why I did not get it.
Maybe because I still need to finish the Reality Dysfunction trilogy books.

Even more darker than W40K?
Yeah I read somewhere that humans really went extremist after having been subjugated not once, but twice by two different alien species.
One I remember wanted to erase human culture or human individualism to make humans easier to control.

I don't mind stories with a bit of darkness in them but occasionally I would also like to read something with a bit more optimism.
Perhaps that is a bit simplistic or juvenile thinking.

Bit frustrating that I have nothing to add to your and Hassknecht's conversaion about space opera.

Well, if you haven't noticed all Iain Banks Culture books are optimistic. So much so that the series basically spawned another writing term; Grim Bright. The only thing that the setting desperately needed is heroism, like fighting for the purpose of existence and giving life a true meaning. It's like the whole point of majority of the books.

It was a kind of reactionary works, afterall Banks said that he wanted to wrote something that feels fresh compared to heavy dose of cyberpunk stuff in 80s.

Even 40K has it's own unique hope spot in the form of lore and any stuff from Dark Age of Technology. One could argue that if Spirit of Eternity wanted, she can fix the entire galaxy by opening her immense database of STC and working together with that Man of Stone from The Journal of Keeper Cripias rulebook story. Although this might only apply as fanfic, the framework is in there.

Right now 8th edition already added Roboute Guilliman resurrection and thus we basically get the only person alive from 30K era. Things already got....slightly better.

I see the pattern of either heroism at very rough journey or having nanny bots fixing your predicament, for sci fi trend right now. At least the higher tiered ones.