Stumbled across a painfully simple infinite XP bug
- Thread starter metalboss44
- Start date
Randian Hero said:
You cant seriously think that this kind of eror is fixed by going through [big echo voice] thousand lines of code [/big echo voice]. Its just a script that doesnt close a boolean or smth and you know exactly where it is. You're right offcourse - these things happen, along with lazy animation & mechanics, dialogue, graphics, quests ... they just .. happen.
also
You again ? Same retarted arguments ?
ShatteredJon
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Goral said:
Infinite jet bug in the Den. Wow, I learn new things everyday. I think its funny that some people come on this site with a list of bugs they found off the internet, but then yell at us for pointing out bugs we found on our own in the new game. Beth spent four years in production of this, BIS one year for their game. So far, IMO, I've had a harder time dealing with FO:3 bugs than with FO:1 & 2 bugs.
Goral said:
Sorry, but I disagree completely with that statement.
The fact that Fallout 2 was developed in one year only reflects that it was an older engine.
All modern games take longer to develop than any older game. A brutal amount of highly detailed art has to be added, new engine technologies have to be implemented and a lot more work has to be done in general for the game to look remotely well. Just compare the size of the Fallout 2 CD to any modern game and remember that Mb of content, be it code or art, don't grow from trees.
Development time is getting more and more expensive every day, widespread software piracy reduces revenue, and the only answer is keeping the game in development for as short a time as possible, often rushing the release.
As a PC gamer, I hate the fact that nearly all games today are released buggy and / or incomplete and require monster patches, but I also understand that conditions have changed.
As customers, we are not only allowed but even encouraged to demand quality from what we buy, but comparing the development of Fallout 2 and 3 is silly, it's not nearly the same league.
Also, while support for Oblivion sucked, Fallout 3 hasn't even been out for two weeks, so it's maybe *a little bit* too early to yell that the bugs will never get patched.
I'm aware that 3D games require more work. But 4 years is really a lot of time even for a complex 3D game and notice that Bethesda dealt with finished engine, engine they've known like a back of their hands and they still released half-product. Civilization 3 and 4 is a good example that supports statement you quoted. Civ 3 was released in 2001, in 2005 Civ 4 was released, so it took them 4 years to make Civ 4 (roughly the same time Bethesda needed to make Fallout 3). However Civ 3 had different engine than Civ 4. Civ 4 was on the same engine as Oblivion or Fallout 3 but they've managed to release outstanding product nonetheless and it didn't have that much bugs.Doolan said:
I can give Bethesda a pass on infinite XP/money bugs/exploits. It's not a deal breaker. But they definitely should be held to task for bugs like NPCs leaping off ledges to their death, quest-stopping bugs, numerous crashes, etc. With it running on 3 platforms there were likely close to 100 people paid to do QA across all 3 versions. It's ridiculous that they could let through bugs of the magnitude that are present.
Goral said:
An excellent point!
Although Civ 4 did have a number of memory leaks upon release that were corrected swiftly in a patch, it was indeed in a more finished, polished state.
At this point though, I wonder if using the Oblivion engine didn't actually set things back in this case. See Crysis / Far Cry 2 for example. The Crysis engine was bloated and largely inefficient, as Crytek themselves noticed. The new one actually performs better while at the same time offering a better visual experience, rock-solid stability and a number of variables not present in the previous one (non-scripted day / night cycle, fire, grass, etc).
The Oblivion engine was, and still is, a joke in many aspects. The physics are off, animations (especially facial ones) stink, bugs are plentiful, stability is simply not there, the graphics feel dated and still manage to tax the system more than Far Cry 2, the AI is flawed beyond belief and anything that is not scripted generally goes the way of the pear.
I know this might sound like a cliche, but I am serious: I wonder if making a completely new engine wouldn't have saved time, money and efforts ultimately.
FeelTheRads
Vault Senior Citizen
Spoken like a true connoisseur... well, not really.
Because if you were you'd also know the tools used by developers have also been vastly simplified and they're incredibly easy to use.
It's funny to see people on forums parroting interviews with lazy developers.
Back then besides the developing process being much more difficult they also had to take alternative and "tricky" routes to be sure their games will work on the hardware that was around. Now they'll just throw out a piece of unoptimized shit, saying it requires half the hardware it actually does and if it doesn't works for you, well sorry... fuck you.
Most of it is "art". Strip any current game of the graphics and you'll fit it on a floppy disk.
Sometimes of course, those dual-layer DVDs are filled with really important stuff, like for Jade Empire where 3-4GBs were cutscenes that couldn't be made with the engine in-game because apparently the awesome consoles couldn't take it.
Then it's safe to say the excuse that 3D is easier to make and that's why everyone started doing it was mostly bullshit? Well, no, because it actually is easier... but hey, now they need another excuse for the shit that gets released and they hope nobody will remember what was previously said.
Randian Hero said:
Not my job.
Know who's job it is? The programmers who get paid by Bethesda to provide us with relatively bug free games.
But, just like with Oblivion, rather than actually fix bugs in their games, they're busy making Dogmeat armour to sell the fanboys.
Doolan said:
The tools developers had, hello? You could as well say that making the early Ultima games, or the early NES games was a piece of cake, because it's just a bunch of pictures and a couple of lines of code.
Besides, where did the idea that the original FO is 2D come from in the first place? Everything I see in-game is rendered 3D models
UniversalWolf
eaten by a grue.
The funniest thing about this thread is that the OP never mentioned Fallout 1 & 2 until someone else (someone determined to put a stop to all the "Fallout 3" bashing) brought them up:
metalboss44 never said anything like, "Fallout 1 and 2 were sooo much better!"
You pro-Bethesda zealots are seeing what you want to see whether it's there or not.
metalboss44 said:If you go to big town and talk to bittercup she will talk to you about her boyfriends. Go and talk to 'pappy' and if you have a high speech skill you can ask him about his relationship with her over and over again, the dialog option is never removed and you earn XP every time you ask.
Beth boggles the mind yet again.
metalboss44 never said anything like, "Fallout 1 and 2 were sooo much better!"
You pro-Bethesda zealots are seeing what you want to see whether it's there or not.
Bal-Sagoth
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
UniversalWolf said:
While I have not seen anyone here do such behavior in recent times the Beth forums have had quite a few F1 and 2 "fan boys" (for lack of better wording) come on there and completely trash 3 for some of the exact same issues 1 and 2 had.
While I agree if your going to rip on 3 you should at least acknowledge the issues 1 and 2 had I have not seen many people on the forum show great bias. In fact many members here who are what I would describe as "fan boys" are more than willing to acknowledge the flaws F1 and 2 had.
frosty_theaussie
Still Mildly Glowing
rcorporon said:
Reminds me of a friend's response to Fable II.
"Why didn't they fix/polish/implement blahblahblah?"
"Too busy making STDs :/"
Randian Hero said:
Heh. I'm guessing you weren't around 10 years ago? BIS got hell for releasing the game in the state they did.
If we're holding Bethesda to the same standard, we should be giving them hell. And we are.
Eyenixon said:
Yeah, no kidding there. This game is a mess, especially in its variety of game-freezing bugs. I haven't played a game this bugged all year.
Bloody William said:
Well, except there's nothing complex about the rpg system in FO3, there are like 20 quests total and they don't interact with each other, or anything at all, it seems.
At least FO1-2 had the excuse of hundreds of branching dialogue and quest objectives and NPC/player interactions. FO3 you're lucky if one NPC in a town has a job for you, or a dialogue beyond "I don't care, go away". But they only ever have the one job.
TheFlyingBuddha
It Wandered In From the Wastes
deadsanta said:
For the love of god the game isn't perfect but there are more than 20 quests. I probably only explored half the game and there are far more than 20 completed quests in my log. People need to stop making completely unsubstantiated claims just because they do or do not like the game.
Great, now I just lost the game.