Submarine Mod

[Josan12]

Doorway + door:

I agree, the door looks cool. I like the big wheel on the old door, though - can you put a wheel on it? The wheel gives it that clunky 50's feel - if you know what i mean. Also - Is it relatively easy to assign the SFX from the old tanker doors?

It'd also be good to have pipes also - but maybe they can be a seperate wall feature or we can use the existing ones.

Do you mean something like that pipes "inside" walls on the Tanker (scenery that is placed on the walls)?[/quote]

Yeah, i mean like the existing ones. We could just stick with the existing ones if you don't feel like creating new ones. but im sure you can do better!

 

[Continuum]

I like the big wheel on the old door, though - can you put a wheel on it? The wheel gives it that clunky 50's feel - if you know what i mean.

Yes, I can. That's why I added that round thing in the center of the door But I'm not sure if I'll animate it (like in Tanker's door), because of problems after animating static stuff (freaking 228 colors) - whole frame "moving" syndrome

It'd also be good to have pipes also - but maybe they can be a seperate wall feature or we can use the existing ones.

There's no point to add more cables/pipes to straight walls, I think... Maybe only special segments with broken cables in the "holes" (something like this):

But the problems will start when you'll try to put them on the round walls...



If I'll render them with walls then you won't be able to put any scenery straight to the walls, because it will overlap them and this is going to look shitty...

If I'll render pipes separately then all shadows will be killed (because of crappy engine) and I don't know how such separated scenery will be looking on the round walls...

The only way I can think of is to render each round segment twice: with pipes and without them...

By the way, how this cables/pipes/whatever on that round walls should look to get a nice results?


This is going to be hard logic challenge to split everything in correct places and make nice connections between different types of wall's add-ons that are placed on the straight and round ones... I hope my brain isn't going to explode because of that

Yeah, i mean like the existing ones. We could just stick with the existing ones if you don't feel like creating new ones. but im sure you can do better!

No way, they're not going to match into my walls because they'll overlap cables/rivets. And they're not going to fit into round ones at all...

Maybe they're good for Tanker's walls (which are looking like crappy 2d painting ), but not for the walls where every detail is geometry based. Not to mention about totally different lighting...


Is there any 3d modeler who wants to participate in this crazy and unique piece of art?

 

[Lexx]

I created some new walls for SD2 this way: First I build the wall parts with some already existing walls from the game. When it was finished, I made lots of screenshots and painted my new walls over it. With this I managed to make it fit 100% without much playing around.

So I think, we first should build the submarine ground parts with normal walls to see how it will looks like in the end.

Also what about the room splitting? I personally have no idea, how the submarine should looks like. Maybe this way?

This would be only one level and as I said... I have no clue how a chinese submarine looks like...

 

[Glovz]

Couple of things that might be considered when deciding on floor plans:
1- Not sure if the Chinese had submarines in the 50's, but we might be able to assume they would be close if not identical to a Russian design.
2- Not sure if 50's type submarines (any country) had the ability to launch missiles of any type.

So here are a couple of images I found that might help someone to think about layout/floor plan design.

http://www.heiszwolf.com/subs/plans/november.jpg --- Russian '58

http://www.heiszwolf.com/subs/plans/Plans_Typhoon.gif --- Russian '80

I would suggest to imagine a hybrid between these two with a very limited number of missiles (4-6 maybe).

I bring up the missile issue because unless the submarine's torpedo tubes are facing out to sea then I don't know how else it would be a threat.

Also if you go with the torpedo tubes facing out to sea, then the orientation of the dock and the submarine must change from what is being designed currently.

Trying to be helpful rather than possing problems/challenges.

 

[Continuum]

I created some new walls for SD2 this way: First I build the wall parts with some already existing walls from the game. When it was finished, I made lots of screenshots and painted my new walls over it. With this I managed to make it fit 100% without much playing around.

Straight walls aren't a problem at all, since I already made custom wall set (in 3d without any painting in PS), which is perfectly tileable - no matter which segment you'll put it will nicely match into the neighboring ones (of course you must follow by ...16 + 32 + 16... or ...16 + 16 + 16... formula) And I'm using exactly the same geometry - I only changed texture, added rivets, etc.

If this round crap wasn't there then I could start rendering/cutting/adding into the game and checking for any bugs... something around 3,5 hours of work to make 62 pieces: version with cables + without them for a smaller rooms + two different types of doorway/doors...

So I think, we first should build the submarine ground parts with normal walls to see how it will looks like in the end.

I was planning to do the same thing - template done in Mapper then screenshots and making custom walls based on that... Later I canceled this idea, because this is not going to solve any problems, since I decided to make a wall that will be totally independent from any template. You can build as you want - no restrictions. Of course you won't be able to use round walls from the 1st floor in 2nd or from 3rd in 1st or bow section in the center, but this is obvious, I guess...

Straight walls will be done in default way, but round not - they're going to be long/large, because shitload of annoying work is needed to make seamless texture for round surface which is going to be used in FO's engine, where you have only 16 pixels in Width Even if you'll somehow make such texture then wall will look like shit - one, giant repeatable crap...

I bring up the missile issue because unless the submarine's torpedo tubes are facing out to sea then I don't know how else it would be a threat.

Also if you go with the torpedo tubes facing out to sea, then the orientation of the dock and the submarine must change from what is being designed currently.

Do you mean that sink the Tanker thing? If so, sub is placed in good way, I guess... Also, you won't be able to see Tanker on the sub map...


-------------------------------EDIT

I'm A Smooth-Skin now!

-------------------------------EDIT2

Also what about the room splitting? I personally have no idea, how the submarine should looks like. Maybe this way?

Me and Josan already discussed this issue. Most of rooms (or even all) will be done non-symmetrically:

 

[Josan12]

There's no point to add more cables/pipes to straight walls, I think...

I definately think the interior walls should have lots of pipes and cables on them - take a look at these pics of sub interiors:







You can see how cramped and cluttered the interiors are.
I can see how it's difficult to make pipes for the curved outside wall .... but i think the inside walls should definately have lots of pipes and scenery.

I bring up the missile issue because unless the submarine's torpedo tubes are facing out to sea then I don't know how else it would be a threat.

Also if you go with the torpedo tubes facing out to sea, then the orientation of the dock and the submarine must change from what is being designed currently.

This is a very good point. We need to make sure the torpedo tubes are pointing toward the tanker .... although many subs have rear torpedo tubes ..... but i think it's better if the sub is pointing toward the tanker. Remember - the whole point of the sub is that it's been placed to sink the tanker ...

Here's the design doc i've been working on for the sub:

http://www.badongo.com/file/13092870

It's just a start, and could really use some input from others to help develop it.

And here's the floorplans i posted a while back. They're also just a start. They're based on a 60's American nuclear sub (USS Nautilus)
Apparently, back in the 50's, the Chinese purchased their nuclear subs from other countries (probably Russia, maube US)




The 2nd floor (there's now only 3 floors with the possibility for a 4th later) should be wider than the others, though the plans don't really show this.

I think it should also be longer - so as to be able to fit more awesome quests and puzzles in there!!

 

[Continuum]

I definately think the interior walls should have lots of pipes and cables on them - take a look at these pics of sub interiors:

You can see how cramped and cluttered the interiors are.
I can see how it's difficult to make pipes for the curved outside wall .... but i think the inside walls should definately have lots of pipes and scenery.

I know how the sub interior is looking... But shitload of work is needed to put such large number of details... Not to mention that sub is very long and a lot unique details is needed. Another thing is that I'm not making a typical 3d model, I'm making a freaking small puzzles that must match to each other!

This is a very good point. We need to make sure the torpedo tubes are pointing toward the tanker .... although many subs have rear torpedo tubes ..... but i think it's better if the sub is pointing toward the tanker. Remember - the whole point of the sub is that it's been placed to sink the tanker ...

I hope everything is clear now:

The 2nd floor (there's now only 3 floors with the possibility for a 4th later) should be wider than the others, though the plans don't really show this.

Nah, look at the tube:



no difference (well, almost)


Small changes of plans. I'll make typical round shape of bow section, instead of that long I previously planned... Now, I need to know how wide the sub will be (dark grey: 16, light grey: 32), otherwise bow section elements will overlap themselves or there'll be a hole between them!



Or maybe there should be no bow (and back?) sections

 

[Bahktinx]

Why does the sub have ribs?

I don't mean to be too critical at this stage and I recognize that everything shown is WIP, but it seems like every concept has the top level of the submarine lined with pokey bits. Shouldn't the exposed framework under the deconstructed areas be in rings? (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_Submarine_Type-209_lg.jpg)

Obviously the sub is not meant to be in perfect shape, and very likely the exposed skeleton isn't either, but it just seemed worth mentioning because it would be visually interesting for some of the rings to be intact. The player would have the feeling of gradually entering something massive and ancient, instead of an abrupt transition from outdoors to inside.

Also, in the final, will only the outside front edge be 'deconstructed'? Or will it be a little more uneven and haphazard?

Hopefully these questions aren't too premature. It's great to see the progress unfold, and I don't mean to dampen that.

 

[Continuum]

I don't know how this is going to look...I don't like this idea of having a sub deconstructed (because of logical problems exterior <--> interior)... Rusty, damaged little a bit (because of scavengers), but deconstructed?

Also:

Don't forget the sub is devastated (washed ashore in 2077) and partially deconstructed (the Emperor and most of the Steel Palace were built from submarine's materials).

A hi-tech palace from the sub? Retarded idea I can understand taking computers and such stuff... But making a building from submarine? Such palace would look like piece of junk... Not to mention that Steel Palace thing doesn't look like made from the sub's elements!

Lack of logical and visual consistency...

Anyway, I added more pipes:

Captain Continuum commanding!

Are you satisfied with the results, First Officer Josan (or maybe Admiral? Then I ).

 

[Josan12]

Shouldn't the exposed framework under the deconstructed areas be in rings?

You're absolutely right. The 'ribs' are just supposed to represent some kind of exposed structure. I totally dig the rings idea ...

 

[Bahktinx]

A hi-tech palace from the sub? Retarded idea I can understand taking computers and such stuff... But making a building from submarine? Such palace would look like piece of junk... Not to mention that Steel Palace thing doesn't look like made from the sub's elements!

Lack of logical and visual consistency...

Yeah, but the thematic consistency is what matters. If the Fallout games are about illustrating how the remnants of war decorate our society and serve to perpetuate war, then a palace built out of a nuclear submarine is perfect for illustrating this.

Anyways, logical consistency isn't exactly a feature of FO2. This is a game with talking scorpions and bipedal geckos. But visual consistency, I dunno. Could anyone throw up some screens of the Steel Palace? Might be a helpful reference. I would, but I haven't got FO2 handy. Anyways, it's been almost 200 years at this point. And the Shi are really tech-savvy. Anything could happen.

Well, I've said plenty. I'm excited to see where you guys take this, whatever you decide!

Edit: That door looks awesome. The red cabling is perfect.

 

[Jotisz]

I never thought that the submarine will be restarted I'm wishing you good luck to be able to finish it

 

[Lexx]

Anyway, I added more pipes:

This looks great. Love it.

 

[Continuum]

Anyways, logical consistency isn't exactly a feature of FO2. This is a game with talking scorpions and bipedal geckos.

And this is a thing that hate in Fallout 2. Game is full of retarded ideas/concepts/whatever... Talking plants and animals, some fucking yakuza and Mobsters or damn Chosen One! I still don't get it why designers decided to not follow by standards of first title... Instead it they turned the game into pathetic comedy

So, if you want to persuade me to something then please don't use Fallout 2 is already full of retarded ideas and let's make it more retarded argument

But visual consistency, I dunno. Could anyone throw up some screens of the Steel Palace? Might be a helpful reference. I would, but I haven't got FO2 handy. Anyways, it's been almost 200 years at this point. And the Shi are really tech-savvy. Anything could happen.

I believe this thing is a Steel Palace:



So, how to hell is possible that after 200 years armed warheads are still present on the sub? Hi-tech society figured out how to deconstruct the hull and made a palace from it, but warheads weren't so important?

That door looks awesome. The red cabling is perfect.

This looks great. Love it.

Maybe it's looking better, but this totally ruined my plan how to make damn puzzles!

 

[Glovz]

So, how to hell is possible that after 200 years armed warheads are still present on the sub? Hi-tech society figured out how to deconstruct the hull and made a palace from it, but warheads weren't so important?

The torpedos could be useless (user looks, sees they are all rusted junk), but if their were missiles sealed in launch tubes, guarded by high tech dedicated launch system the Shi could not remove without setting them off, even though they were able to strip other systems to create the Emperor.

Don't forget the sub is devastated (washed ashore in 2077) and partially deconstructed (the Emperor and most of the Steel Palace were built from submarine's materials).

If you were to go this route, then:
1- The sub could be located in an isolated cove not located in SF
2- If washed ashore then you could consider the player entering from the bottom floor and having to work his way up and/or back down (whatever)
3- You would definitely have to have missile back in
4- The sub on this map could be like a cliff face where you see the opening to enter and that's about it
5- From there rounded walls may not play such a big part

Just some suggestions before everyone gets frustrated again, and gives up again.

 

[Lexx]

If you were to go this route, then:
1- The sub could be located in an isolated cove not located in SF
2- If washed ashore then you could consider the player entering from the bottom floor and having to work his way up and/or back down (whatever)
3- You would definitely have to have missile back in
4- The sub on this map could be like a cliff face where you see the opening to enter and that's about it
5- From there rounded walls may not play such a big part

I like this. Now I have an image in my head where you see the big front/back/ or side of the submarine with a big hole in it where you can enter the bottom level or the middle level to get into it. A kind of secret place that not everybody know of.

 

[Continuum]

The torpedos could be useless (user looks, sees they are all rusted junk), but if their were missiles sealed in launch tubes, guarded by high tech dedicated launch system the Shi could not remove without setting them off, even though they were able to strip other systems to create the Emperor.

Sounds like reasonable explanation to me... And that warheads can be carried in Tomahawk class like missiles that can be launched from submerged sub and can hit targets placed on the ground...

Tomahawks were introduced in 1970, but such missiles shouldn't be nothing special in the era of plasma/laser guns, I guess... In this way you can skip having ballistic missiles on the sub, since nuclear warheads can be carried in Tomahawks...

So, the sub could not only be a threat to Tanker, but also could be a threat to that Hubologists' shuttle/other ground targets...

If you were to go this route, then:
1- The sub could be located in an isolated cove not located in SF
2- If washed ashore then you could consider the player entering from the bottom floor and having to work his way up and/or back down (whatever)
3- You would definitely have to have missile back in
4- The sub on this map could be like a cliff face where you see the opening to enter and that's about it
5- From there rounded walls may not play such a big part.

This definitely could look much more stylish than "parked" sub in docks, but at this moment I'm not sure how to make such thing in FO's engine...

Just some suggestions before everyone gets frustrated again, and gives up again.

Nah, why everyone should get frustrated? There's nothing wrong in discussing how to design everything nicely/interesting, IMO.

 

[Ravager69]

Ok, a new (I think) idea - because the Shi were suppose to strip it for parts, I think it would have less than 3\4 of the original hull left, if not less than a half. My point is that the Shi could make it some kind of a half-ship half-building, like the aircraft carrier in the Rivet City, but to a bigger degree. You know, like a military base with operating missle bay at the rear of the ship (which'd still be in water), the upper levels stripped completly and the whole structure supported on each sides by metal beams, so it won't collapse? Far-fetched, I know, but this kind of recycling fits Fallout world pretty much.

 

[Continuum]

Maybe it's looking better, but this totally ruined my plan how to make damn puzzles!

Ok, here's what I figured out. I'll make three version of main doorways/doors...

1st version will be placed in the center:




2nd version will be placed on the right:




3rd version will be placed on the left:




But you won't be able to use 2nd and 3rd (or 1st) in the same section, because I'm not going to make any connection that will allow for this.

And if I'll noticed that someone is doing strange experiments with my walls (like putting segments where they shouldn't be) then I'll personally fire a torpedo in his direction

I'll spend a lot of hours on annoying work to match everything perfectly and I don't want to see my hard work butchered into not matching shitty shit, because someone wants to have one more main doorway here or there...

Main doorway + wall that "belongs" to it will be really detailed (it's still a WIPie):

----------------------------------EDIT

And of course I'll provide an instruction/explain how to build this thing. I'm always doing it in case of any complicated puzzles

 

[Demonslayer]

I can almost imagine me playing and come into something like this:

At the same time i'm hearing Sierra Army Depot background music *-*