Submarine Mod

[Glovz]

If you fail to disarm the sub, then taking the tanker to the The Enclave should produce one of the "You're dead."/"You have died." endings. [The RP has the Vertibird to get there, so there is another option.]

However (I cannot recall clearly), do any of the good endings describe people coming back from the The Enclave via the tanker? If yes then the sub computer may need to be linked to the computers on at The Enclave somehow so it can be deactivated from there or is automatically deactivated when everything blows up.

 

[Continuum]

If you fail to disarm the sub, then taking the tanker to the The Enclave should produce one of the "You're dead."/"You have died." endings.

I don't know why but I was thinking about immediate reaction of the sub computers (firing torpedoes) at any unauthorized attempts of disarming...

failed attempt --> torpedoes launched --> player is returning to docks --> Tanker has been hit!

But, yeah, you're right. I forgot that any ship that may be attacked must move close to the submarine and can't just stand in the docks.

 

[Demonslayer]

By the way, does anyone consider situation when player will fail to enter deactivation codes (low Intelligence for example) and torpedoes will sink the Tanker?

I'm not that keen on subs but do they have a "door" in the torpedo tube? If they do maybe the player could close that "doors" (low int) when failing deactivation and make the torpedos explode inside the sub, thus dying.

 

[Darek]

By the way, does anyone consider situation when player will fail to enter deactivation codes (low Intelligence for example) and torpedoes will sink the Tanker?

Or maybe launch a torpedo but with the outer tube door closed, sub explodes, game over.
EDIT: Doh, Demonslayer just suggested the same thing. He, brilliant idea you had there.

I was thinking, dumb characters can't really use computers can they? IIRC, they can only use the talking ones. So if going to the sub is a mandatory step for using the tanker, the computer should probably be a talking one, or maybe there could be a way to manually deactivate the system for dumb and/or low science skill characters. Maybe going down to the torpedo room...

Also, since there's not much written in the Fallout bible about the submarine or any design docs, that should leave you with the freedom to create a couple of quests on board the sub if you want to (that's my opinion anyway). Nothing too wild, mind

Oh and with that holodisk you find there, it would be nice if you could show that to Ken Lee, and prove that the Steele Palace was not built from a scrapped submarine.

 

[Continuum]

I'm not that keen on subs but do they have a "door" in the torpedo tube?

Yeah, there are doors. Torpedo tubes are first flooded (pressure thing) and next opened before firing. The whole procedure isn't rather easy when you compare to the torpedo launchers at normal warships, I guess... so, without proper skills/playing as dumb/without deactivation codes any attempts to disarm warheads could cause explosion. Not to mention that sub is rather old...

I was thinking, dumb characters can't really use computers can they? IIRC, they can only use the talking ones. So if going to the sub is a mandatory step for using the tanker, the computer should probably be a talking one, or maybe there could be a way to manually deactivate the system for dumb and/or low science skill characters. Maybe going down to the torpedo room...

Well, then maybe we should relocate bow torpedo room to the 1st level on our sub to avoid adding talking computer...



Or maybe make a small map with torpedo room only? We'll see...

Oh and with that holodisk you find there, it would be nice if you could show that to Ken Lee, and prove that the Steele Palace was not built from a scrapped submarine.

Good idea!



------------------------------EDIT

The boat should be located in this place, so there will be no need to make any bigger changes in Docks map...

 

[Dravean]

That boat is looking awesome in game. It fits in very well with the Fallout art style. Great job.

 

[ShaXbee]

Low intelligence characters should be able to make some side-quest (rescue / item) to take scientist with them. For example some hubogologist want to rescue his friend being captive at Shi HQ

 

[Continuum]

That boat is looking awesome in game. It fits in very well with the Fallout art style. Great job.

Thanks It's a still WIPie...

Anyway, I'll render underwater part and next in PS I'll merge it with that ugly water tiles, so the boat will fit nicely there...



I must definitely make some painting... maybe Jolly Roger like thing... And maybe exhaust pipe from the engine should be made like in this car

Also, since I don't know who's going to make whole scripting work I must ask about one thing... Does this solution (pointed out by Lexx at previous page) with overcrowd problem will be implemented? If not then I'll skip making art for that entrance to the sub map. I'll try to finish and upload the boat on Sunday, so you'll be able to slowly start implementing NPCs, dialogues, quest, etc.

By the way, please don't use any of that shitty critters from SF for the owner of the boat (because boat will look crazy), so some guy in Metal Armour will be better

 

[Josan12]

- take some info from NPCs,
- take deactivation codes from NPCs,
- put a small boat somewhere in docks,
- click on it,
- you're automatically transferred into a small sub's interior map,
- enter deactivation codes,
- click on something and you'll be transferred back to the docks.


Am I missing something here?

Guys, i really don't see the need to complicate things with small boats, NPC capacities and such like. Plus, it would be SUCH an awesome missed opportunity not to see the wrecked sub from the outside. And anyway, often in FO you see impressive set-peices (the shuttle, crashed vertibird etc) that provide that visual 'special-ness' and introduce the player to the new location. If the problem is it's too much work, then i'd be willing to make the 3D model of the sub exterior.

If you're so concerned with sticking to the FO bible when it says 'buried under the water' (i.e. an underwater wreck) then just have the Player jump into the water in PA and walk to the wreck on the ocean floor or something similar. If the small boat needs to be involved it could take the player to a spot out in the ocean.

Either way i see an unrealisticly big 'jump' in events if the player just clicks on a little boat and gets transported to an underwater wreck (not to mention the missed oportunities of awesomeness.)

Also, i've written a design doc for the context of the sub and made floorplans of the sub itself and how the level design could work (open to be added, changed of course), but it seems to be entirely ignored so what's the point in developing it any further??

 

[Glovz]

I was waiting to see how Josan12 would respond and I agree that missing out on seeing some portion of the exterior of the sub would be disappointing.

Let me add that while I advocate sticking with the bible, I would think any information found in game or buried in unused files would trump the bible; hence why I was hoping for the beached sub. This would allow for a good portion of the exterior to be seen, offer a way in, and could still use Josan12's floor plans. It would also play into (no matter how ridiculous) that a portion of the sub was used for building materials.

And the term "beached" is a general one, for the sub to be stuck it does not have to be completely out of the water.

This also would point towards missiles and not torpedoes.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I think it would make perfect sense for the sub to be in drydock. It's less likely to rust away to nothing that way.

 

[Josan12]

Let me add that while I advocate sticking with the bible, I would think any information found in game or buried in unused files would trump the bible; hence why I was hoping for the beached sub. This would allow for a good portion of the exterior to be seen, offer a way in, and could still use Josan12's floor plans. It would also play into (no matter how ridiculous) that a portion of the sub was used for building materials.

And the term "beached" is a general one, for the sub to be stuck it does not have to be completely out of the water.

Now THATS what i'm talking about. Something which says 'awesome-ness' !!!!!




I'm thinking a map where the player can walk along the beach and find this huge beached (or partially beached) rusty old submarine and go 'WOW - i really want to explore in there'

Remember the objective here is not just to find the simplest and quickest way to deactivate the torpedo/missle mechanism, but to create something that is just goddamn amazing. And also - this may be the last major addition to FO2 so it should be great.

But i would also go with the idea of an 'ocean wreck' scenario - as long as the player doesn't get magically transported down there, and gets to see the wreck in all it's ruined glory and go WOW!

 

[Grayswandir]

yes, but come on, i would love to see the boat in use!
Couldn't you agree on using the boat that bring you to a map where the submarine is stuck on low water, or on a reef ? Maybe even only accesible on low tide or something...

It would also play into (no matter how ridiculous) that a portion of the sub was used for building materials.

I personaly would go with the "you see its impossible" dialogue to Dr Fung. That or modify the Shy templ by adding some submarine walls.

Also, i've written a design doc for the context of the sub and made floorplans of the sub itself and how the level design could work (open to be added, changed of course), but it seems to be entirely ignored so what's the point in developing it any further??

About that, could you maybe go more into detail, telling more about each level, what purpose, what needs to be done, scripts and such?
Right now the story is good for me, I don't see much to critisize...
Well except for the last involvment of the Enclave, I think the Shi would have trapped the Sub themselves but, yeah...

 

[Dravean]

yes, but come on, i would love to see the boat in use!
Couldn't you agree on using the boat that bring you to a map where the submarine is stuck on low water, or on a reef ?

I like this idea. I'd hate to see the boat go unused, and it seems like a good compromise.

 

[Darek]

About the story, I agree, the enclave should have nothing to do with the sub.
Also, I have to quote Dr Fung: "When the missiles fell in the Great Deluge, the systems aboard the submarine failed and we drifted in the dark for many days. At last, we drifted ashore."
When hearing that I get the feeling that they where already outside the American coast somewhere and that all their systems failed instantly (except for the automated defense system of course), and I don't think they drifted for 14 months.
But that's just my interpretation, the information is so sparse that pretty much anything goes, and I'm not unhappy with yours.

Beached or under water, deconstructed or not?
What is most plausible? How long can an abandoned sub remain moderately intact in saltwater, and what would wear it down the fastest? My guess would be if beached (especially if it's partly in water).
If the sub is partly deconstructed I would expect that would shorten the time greatly.
I would prefer Grayswandir's suggestion, but I don't know if it's plausible.

I too want to see the subs exterior, and as much as possible of the interior.
A few new quests would be great, and if killap feel they don't fit the scope of the RP he can just choose not to include those.

 

[Glovz]

Hmmm.....

If the story line is that the sub will shoot/destroy any ship that leaves the harbor.....

Well I think you can see where this is going.

Anyway, if the boat is included then there has to be included more back story how the sub would only destroy ships of a certain size. Then comes the question of "why?", what would be the answer "because the modders wanted a boat"???

 

[Grayswandir]

Also, I have to quote Dr Fung: "When the missiles fell in the Great Deluge, the systems aboard the submarine failed and we drifted in the dark for many days. At last, we drifted ashore."

Yeah, I aggree, the sub must have been near the US coast.
About the drifting, I am no pro of that sort of thing, but it is my understanding that when a sub is about to sink, that the crew goes into a pneumatic (rescue boat?)? I would say it's this ship that would have drifted, while the sub was drifting/sinking in low water/ going into a reef.

+ the "in the dark" don't satisfy me, it imply they were underwater when it happen, but then the sub would have just sunk (empty ballast, Koursk anyone?) with the crew in it.
Not speaking of the "we", I think we can write any story that we want and alter the original dialogues, after all, they were many designer, each with its own ideas about what happened...

But then if the systems are down due to the EMP, how can it be a threat to the tanker?
Maybe one quest could be to go get spare IA part for the emperor, but by doing so, you reactivate the defensive/aggressiv system sub, and closing you the tanker way to get to the enclave...

Then comes the question of "why?", what would be the answer "because the modders wanted a boat"???

Oh yeah!!!

Seriously, i dont see this boat as a military threat. But any backstory is a plus, i think.

 

[Continuum]

Now THATS what i'm talking about. Something which says 'awesome-ness' !!!!!

Yeah, it this way everything should look... but you're forgetting about one thing... How to hell do you want to put such floor/walls into FO's engine:

Is something changed since yesterday and Fallout is using FP(S) 3d engine?

If the story line is that the sub will shoot/destroy any ship that leaves the harbor.....

Well I think you can see where this is going.

Anyway, if the boat is included then there has to be included more back story how the sub would only destroy ships of a certain size. Then comes the question of "why?", what would be the answer "because the modders wanted a boat"???

Huh? Follow by your logic sub should be already out of torpedoes because if targeting systems are set to fire to everything what is moving then all torpedoes would be already wasted to sink whale or shark (or a small fish!)

By "hearing" sonar you can detect size of the ship/object/whatever (even type of ship!). And in the era where you have fucking über intelligent (and talking!) computers only poor sub have computers that can't analyze sonar information...

So,

Later I'll reply to everything else...

 

[Josan12]

If the story line is that the sub will shoot/destroy any ship that leaves the harbor.....

Well I think you can see where this is going.

Anyway, if the boat is included then there has to be included more back story how the sub would only destroy ships of a certain size. Then comes the question of "why?", what would be the answer "because the modders wanted a boat"???

I have to say i agree here - although i like Contie's new artwork very much - the concept of the little boat seems overly complicated and unnecessary to me.

I think we should aim to keep this mod simple. It is, after all, going to be ALOT of work as it is. Here's the summary of the sub as i see it:

1) Old, abandoned, rusty submarine on the docks/beach/underwater.
2) 'Someone' (player may or may not find out) rigged it to fire a torpedo at any boat that tries to leave SF.
3) Player finds a way in, explores down to the torpedo room and disarms the firing mechanism

Simple as that. Way i see it, there's huge potential to add detail and plot to that nice and simple structure. Why make it more complicated?

 

[Continuum]

I figured out how to compromise what is written in Fallout Bible and amount of work = type of location, I thought everyone is happy... I was wrong, I guess....

Anyway, brainstorming, chapter 3562!

Guys, i really don't see the need to complicate things with small boats, NPC capacities and such like.

Uber cool, very time consuming art, but design simplified into shoot them all/disarm all traps/"one visit" location? Is this what Fallout is about? If you want to play in eyecandys only then feel free do it. Times when I was blindly doing art because someone wanted/asked/something was needed have passed and they're not going to return... sure, is something is cool/interesting then I'm not bitching...

When I wanted to settle down it with NPCs/give more possibilities with choices and consequences when player will take control over the rockets and tried to point out that this should be interesting RPG-ish location - No! This is going to rape the Bible! Also, deconstructing sub, because two fucking stupid retreaded dialogues are mentioning how we made our shitty looking city from the submarine!? yes, I HATE this idea.

And anyway, often in FO you see impressive set-peices (the shuttle, crashed vertibird etc)

Shuttle impressive? Where? It's just another retarded (and shitty looking) design decision!

If the problem is it's too much work, then i'd be willing to make the 3D model of the sub exterior.

In such case feel free to do it

then just have the Player jump into the water in PA and walk to the wreck on the ocean floor or something similar.

Nautilus and Captain Nemo like thing? I'm sure results will be very shitty, because you won't able to create good looking underwater environment in outdated 2d engine. This is going to look like walking on normal ground... So, what's the point?

Also, i've written a design doc for the context of the sub

To be honest: my jaw simply drooped after reading this... Ghosts, talking computers and reference to Karate Kid movie... and typical story about leak in reactor and poor crew members that were trapped inside lowest floor...*

More crap into already crappy San Francisco... maybe a lot of people here is fascinated by such type of design (i.e. movie references), but not me - it successfully killing whole gaming experience. Instead of dark, brutal world I have a fucking comedy on the screen!

We simply have a totally different approach to the game

Also, I imagine the sub (in post-apoc RPG) as not a freaking museum where you're walking and shooting to some damn monsters! It's not damn shooter, but RPG. If you want to design such location then put the sub away from any human's town/cites/whatever (no one knows about it). If you want to put it close to the humans then you must make it totally stripped (just an eye candy scenery) or settle it down with NPCs.

In case of our sub the only purpose of having it is to disarm torpedoes. I don't see any reason to make whole interior + exterior. It's only a time wasting. And buried beneath the sea is the best option for location/story designed in this way, since Shi are came from that sub so must know where it is which eliminates no one knows about it and eliminates stripped because sub is beneath the waters and because is beneath the waters can't be settled with NPCs!

and made floorplans of the sub itself and how the level design could work (open to be added, changed of course), but it seems to be entirely ignored so what's the point in developing it any further??

I also put a work into the level that won't be used... because plans have changed little a bit...

I have to say i agree here - although i like Contie's new artwork very much - the concept of the little boat seems overly complicated and unnecessary to me.

I busted this crap in my previous post. Your argument failed! Another one please!

As for the boat art - don't worry, if this isn't going to be used here then maybe will be used somewhere else And I'm going to finish it because I like it

I think we should aim to keep this mod simple. It is, after all, going to be ALOT of work as it is.

Once again, shitload of work with the art, but everything else simplified? Sounds like next-gen crap! Eyecandys over the design! Fallout 3 maybe?

Way i see it, there's huge potential to add detail and plot to that nice and simple structure. Why make it more complicated?

Err... because it's a cRPG? And for me words simple structure should be used as less as possible in such type of game... Also, where do you see huge potential in shoot them all/disarm all traps/"one visit" location? Because I can't. Everything is going around one thing - I must see the exterior!, I must see deconstructed sub! Otherwise this will be huge disappointment! no matter how crappy this location will be...



* here's what I wrote to Mr. Lizard when we were discussing some things:

I was watching some film about americanish sub where nuclear rector was fucked up. And who went there to fix it? Damn commander! That's right! Fucking hero! He sacrifice himself to save the crew.... I almost cried when he's was dying after receiving large dose of radiation...

Anyway, this whole sacrifice thing is boring...

I would rather go into forcing someone to go there - you know terror on the deck... You'll die quicker there than from our hands.

Cold blood, psycho captain! Human instinct to survive shows its face!

Dark and brutal story about human nature written by one of the crew members - this would very interesting lecture to read! Shi are talking about a "peaceful" version how they get into the SF and player will find out something else... Liars!