Submarine Mod

[Continuum]

- the Shi palace is NOT made with metal from the Sub, thus the Sub is NOT partially deconstructed (I had to concede this plot point)
- the story of the palace being made with metal from the Sub was to hide the fact that a small sub-faction of the Shi (need a name!) working with the Brotherhood of Steel have been maintaining the Sub

I still don't get it why do you want to find ANY reasonable explanation to how made our shitty looking city from submarine!. What's the problem to simply open damn game files and delete this crap? Is this hardcoded?

- weapons system on the Sub is set to fire on the Tanker specifically should it leave the docks in SF (need a reason! sabotage? or maybe something along the line Mikael Grizzly suggested)

Then why BOS didn't use that missile to bomb Navarro? That one missile is waiting for launch only when player will use the Tanker? This is discussed over and over again: Why do we need missile(s)? Because the player is going to use the Tanker! Why bad ass monsters are present in "basement" at the Tanker? Because you must save poor girl!

Also, I see nothing interesting in your story other than I must see large part of exterior and I must explore whole interior!

Anyway,

Version from Fallout Bible (thanks Glovz for mentioning about Bible, otherwise I couldn't figure it out! ) fits in the best way/doesn't require any bigger changes, but with this variant:

1st version:

- Shi don't care about the sub, so hi-tech stuff is stripped,
- targeting systems are disabled,
- Enclave is spotting the sub,
- they're slowly starting to adding/enabling all systems inside,
- they're doing all necessary conservation to prevent flooding, etc.
- why to hell they're doing this? Because there are powerful warheads which can be used against the muties!

In this way you'll eliminate this thing:

From the first page in this thread I saw these:

Second, the submarine is kind of unfitting, because the tanker has been used previously, to estabilish the Navarro base. Why wasn't it destroyed then?

Because targeting systems were disabled or Enclave already had a control over the sub (pick the version you want). Player is using a Tanker to get into the Oil Rig. And is immediately attacked after living the safe harbor. And because sub is armed only with torpedoes (fuck the missiles) Enclave can't attack any ground targets. And because Enclave doesn't control the Tanker (no garrison there) they need something that will sink damn vessel when will try to leave harbor without Enclave's "permission"! And what is best for that? Damn submarine!

You don't need a sabotage, you don't need a spy, you don't need ANY additional story for it. And it's very simple/easy to script as Josan wanted

Sounds reasonable or not?

I just hope both of you were joking.

 

[Bahktinx]

...is my writing imcomprehensible, or what?

You're not the only one posting in this thread who feels that way, I promise. Also, not to be an ass, but incomprehensible has another "n". Unless that was sarcastic frustration, in which case I am an ass, and also obtuse.

Where is Josan at, anyway? We haven't heard from him in a couple pages.

 

[Continuum]

Let's see: you're transferring fuel through a 160 year old, rusty pipeline system. Somewhere down the line, it malfunctions after the fuel passes, parts collapse hit the water, crush the submerged hulk, triggering the targetting system and activating the torpedoes.

Something hits 160 years old wreck (which is cannibalized from the most systems) and activates everything what is needed to sink the ship: power supply, sonar, targeting systems, torpedoes are loaded into the tubes, torpedo tubes are flooded, opened and finally fired just because something was hit the hull... Interesting... Not to mention that sub must be placed between Tanker and something that is pumping the fuel (wharf?) otherwise how something could hit the sub while fueling up the Tanker?

Maybe it could work in this way: if Luck < 5 then parts of the pipe collapse, hit the water, crush the submerged hulk and explosion! Player is dead. The game is over.

Or maybe I'm missing something?

 

[Stevex]

Are you still considering ideas about the Shi sub? How about this:

The SF port authority computer won't let the freighter leave because its IFF shows an enemy in the area. You could use the computer in the building to the right of the freighter for that. The quest would be to find the sub and disable its IFF transponder.

 

[Glovz]

@Continuum
You seem to have all the answers.

- the Shi palace is NOT made with metal from the Sub, thus the Sub is NOT partially deconstructed (I had to concede this plot point)
- the story of the palace being made with metal from the Sub was to hide the fact that a small sub-faction of the Shi (need a name!) working with the Brotherhood of Steel have been maintaining the Sub

I still don't get it why do you want to find ANY reasonable explanation to how made our shitty looking city from submarine!. What's the problem to simply open damn game files and delete this crap? Is this hardcoded?

If you read this correctly, I was trying to offer an explanation why the city/palace IS NOT built using metal from the Sub.

- weapons system on the Sub is set to fire on the Tanker specifically should it leave the docks in SF (need a reason! sabotage? or maybe something along the line Mikael Grizzly suggested)

Then why BOS didn't use that missile to bomb Navarro? That one missile is waiting for launch only when player will use the Tanker? This is discussed over and over again: Why do we need missile(s)? Because the player is going to use the Tanker! Why bad ass monsters are present in "basement" at the Tanker? Because you must save poor girl!

I went with missiles because I went with the Sub NOT being in SF; but you are right, the BOS may want to be able to bomb someone else, but I thought one missile would not be enough to have this possibility given (and I did not mention this before) I did not envision the missle to be nuclear, just plain explosive.

Also, I see nothing interesting in your story other than I must see large part of exterior and I must explore whole interior!

You're entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else.

Version from Fallout Bible (thanks Glovz for mentioning about Bible, otherwise I couldn't figure it out! ) fits in the best way/doesn't require any bigger changes, but with this variant:

Continuum wrote:
1st version:

- Shi don't care about the sub, so hi-tech stuff is stripped,
- targeting systems are disabled,
- Enclave is spotting the sub,
- they're slowly starting to adding/enabling all systems inside,
- they're doing all necessary conservation to prevent flooding, etc.
- why to hell they're doing this? Because there are powerful warheads which can be used against the muties!

Are you sure this is from the Fallout bible? Anyways, I was trying to acknowledge that in the case of the Sub, sticking to the bible is difficult and I am willing to stray from it to a degree.

In this way you'll eliminate this thing:

From the first page in this thread I saw these:

Second, the submarine is kind of unfitting, because the tanker has been used previously, to estabilish the Navarro base. Why wasn't it destroyed then?

Because targeting systems were disabled or Enclave already had a control over the sub (pick the version you want). Player is using a Tanker to get into the Oil Rig. And is immediately attacked after living the safe harbor. And because sub is armed only with torpedoes (fuck the missiles) Enclave can't attack any ground targets. And because Enclave doesn't control the Tanker (no garrison there) they need something that will sink damn vessel when will try to leave harbor without Enclave's "permission"! And what is best for that? Damn submarine!

Maybe I was not clear in my previous post, but what I had hoped to convey was that the weapons system was set RECENTLY somehow, I mentioned possibilities on how but did not have that clear myself.

Are you still considering ideas about the Shi sub? How about this:

The SF port authority computer won't let the freighter leave because its IFF shows an enemy in the area. You could use the computer in the building to the right of the freighter for that. The quest would be to find the sub and disable its IFF transponder.

I like this, it helps with my problem of:

...(player needs to find out somehow there is a risk to taking the Tanker even after getting the fuel???)

 

[Continuum]

You seem to have all the answers.

Me? No!

I simply trying to comprise everything. When I wanted to do something better/worthy/more important than just disarm all traps/shoot them all/one visit location (which could be worth the amount of work to make the art):

If this mod is to be included in killap's RP then shouldn't it stay closer to what is described in the Fallout bible?

So?

And when I figured out how to make everything without shitload of unnecessary work only just because we want to see large part of deconstructed exterior and we want to explore whole interior thing - you're still not satisfied...

It's very simple... when I noticed (after reading design docs or some people's posts) in what direction design is going I simply asked myself: Does this art is worth of such large amount of work for such type of design/location? The answer was only one: Definitely No!. So, I quickly changed approach to the art, to what is necessary. And what is necessary? Small location where player will enter to disarm targeting systems. And how to do that without magic teleportation (and skipping large part of exterior)? Put the boat and small map where only top of the part of the sail is visible. Plain and simple.

And as I already stated earlier: I'm not going to blindly do shitload of work just because you want.

And it's a final decision how the art will be looking.

If you don't like this then just tell me: Go to hell, Contie! We don't like your ideas and we'll do everything as we want! (starting from the design/story and ending with the art) since I'm not forcing anyone to agree/cooperating with me, accept my ideas or using my art In any time I can disappear from this thread and I'll stop commenting any ideas/design/etc.

You're entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else.

This should obvious, I guess...

Are you sure this is from the Fallout bible?

It's based on what is written in Bible + additional stupid and simple things to fit the visuals with the existing game/story or to avoid question: why 160 years old sub can still sink something after all these years under the water!

Of course you can always modify it if you figure out something better

 

[Luigibacsi]

What if the Shi were just bullshitting you about building their city from the sub? Maybe they just took the computers and stuff.

The SF port authority computer won't let the freighter leave because its IFF shows an enemy in the area. You could use the computer in the building to the right of the freighter for that. The quest would be to find the sub and disable its IFF transponder.

I also like Stevex's idea, that would be the easiest way to implement the sub. Or you could just sink it, and the ship could sail to the Enclave.

 

[Ravager69]

I always kinda wanted the sub to be in an old dry dock (with a roof), that has collapsed and the sub is partially buried under rubble. Cool looking smashed sub (of which only a part would be visible) + open space in the roof (as it collapsed), so the missles have space to be launched and no how-to-get-to-the-sub nonsense. Somehow the missle silos are undamaged and the Shi\Enclave got the launching system to work -> threat to the tanker, as it'll get bombed to hell if someone will try to use it. We can make the Shi cooperate with the Enclave for additional supplies or simply out of fear.

 

[Bahktinx]

If this mod is to be included in killap's RP then shouldn't it stay closer to what is described in the Fallout bible?

So?

I had such fucking hopes for this sub mod.

 

[Josan12]

Where is Josan at, anyway? We haven't heard from him in a couple pages.

Honestly i don't feel like the majority of this stuff even needs to be 100% decided on. I've been a PnP roleplay DM for years (MERP/Rolemaster if anyone's interested ) and in my experience there's just no need to have everything figured out.

From the players perspective: they find a sub. They have no idea of how it came to be there (unless the DM/game decides to tell them via NPC). They know virtually nothing about what parts of the sub were used to build the palace. They don't need to know how an ancient torpedo/missle system can be rigged to fire. The point is it can some way, some how. I think some things - as long as they have at least some vaugely plausable explanation - can left unexplained. The player can decided for themselves. This way we can focus on designing an awesome new location and stop arguing about backstory details.

I think there are a few conflicts that need to be explained:

a) some shi say there is no sub - others say there is. This, IMO, was almost certainly thrown in to the game after they cut the sub due to lack of time!! Ironic. So, i agree it might be strange to have the sub there blatantly in view on the docks. Fine. We can just create a new map further up the coast with the exterior of the sub on it. Or make it an underwater wreck.
b) if the sub's tubes are out of the water they can't fire (i think) So the subs tubes have to be in the water at least half the time (at high tide?)

Personally, i think it would be best to just have the stripped, partially submerged exterior wreck of the sub on the beach further up the coast. The Player walks up to it, clicks on the entrance (maybe different entrances whatever) and explores their way down through the 3 levels, through quests, puzzles, fights, characters etc and disarms the torpedo system. Dare i say it .... nice and simple !!!

 

[Bahktinx]

and in my experience there's just no need to have everything figured out.

This way we can focus on designing an awesome new location and stop arguing about backstory details.

I think I tried saying this on p. 17, but it's nice to hear it from someone working on the project.

 

[Continuum]

Personally, i think it would be best to just have the stripped, partially submerged exterior wreck of the sub on the beach further up the coast. The Player walks up to it, clicks on the entrance (maybe different entrances whatever) and explores their way down through the 3 levels, through quests, puzzles, fights, characters etc and disarms the torpedo system. Dare i say it .... nice and simple !!!

Then I quickly make this, default FO's wall:



I'll implement that doorways/doors (still wall is going to look better than Tanker's one), Jotisz will make scenery crap and you'll make the exterior to fit into whatever variant you want (deconstructed/not deconstructed/total wreck/operational/etc.) and you'll implement whatever design you want (Shi/Enclave/talking torpedoes/ghosts/bad ass monsters/SF is made from sub elements/etc.). Everyone will be happy. Ok?

 

[Stevex]

If you're looking for some place to put the sub, how about Alcatraz Island? It's isolated but reachable by boat.

 

[Jesterka]

Great discussion, guys. So much controversy for nothing.

'cause nobody will probably ever come to a reasonable verdict, not talking about scripting/writing, the graphics bases will be confiscated on behalf of the BGE team!

No offense, natch.

 

[Grayswandir]

Still, i am in love with your boat, Continuum, whatever is choosen don't you dare deleting it without putting it in the repositery.
The script to use it shall be easy, just a teleport thingie, and I know how to handle the selling the boat part.
I like your idea of the shi trying to reboot the Uboat too...

'cause nobody will probably ever come to a reasonable verdict, not talking about scripting/writing,

Yeah, jesterka is right, can we start to work on what is happening in this sub?
I suppose we need a script (script 1) to get into the sub.
Then there are 3 levels, what happen inside it? Do we have to reactivate some water pump (script 2) to get in the level below?

Do we reuse the traps (script 4)from the sierra base?
Do we have to restore power/repair powerplant (script 5)
Will there be computers? What their purpose? (script 6...)
Will we be able to fire the torpedo? (Script 7 + map without tankers)

Thats the sort of questions that need answers in my opinion...
And i think only what Continum and Josan think on the matter are important...

 

[Continuum]

Still, i am in love with your boat, Continuum, whatever is choosen don't you dare deleting it without putting it in the repositery.

Are you sure you want to delete 'submarine'? some pop up is asking me...

*clicking 'Yes'*

Then there are 3 levels, what happen inside it?

In my version with boat is only one. So, there will be only one computer where you can enter deactivation codes and some other computer?/machinery? for disarming torpedoes without proper skills/playing as dumb/without deactivation codes which may cause the explosion. Player is dead. The game is over. No traps, no repairing, etc.

And i think only what Continum and Josan think on the matter are important...

In my previous post I presented another sort of compromise for people who want to explore whole interior and see large part of exterior. I'm waiting for the answer. Also, I don't know if you still want to use my version with boat and one level only...




Anyway, something longer for the version with boat:


Story

- there's a Chinese sub,
- ruder is broken/reactor damaged and needs to be shut down,
- slowly is starting to drift,
- Shi left the sub,
- they're returning back few times to take some of hi-tech stuff (to build their talking computer),
- targeting systems left on the board are disabled/are stripped,
- they're making the sub submerged to prevent any unauthorized access to it and to forget about whole incident (you may insert that "dark" story I mentioned earlier),
- only small of part of the sail is visible over the water,
- Enclave is spotting the sub,
- they're slowly starting to adding/enabling all systems inside,
- they're doing all necessary conservation to prevent flooding, etc.
- no talking and thinking computers on the board,
- after Tanker was used to establish the Navarro base targeting system/sonar is on,
- active sonar in pinging for searching potential targets,
- signature of Tanker's signal in entered into the data base,
- if Tanker's signature detected torpedoes are launched to sink the Tanker.

Feel free to modify it/add something, it's just a way I see it...



What to do in SF?

a) find out where sub is located (SF or Navarro),
b) get deactivation codes in Navarro maybe? (not essential, since player may try to disarm without them),
c) find missing parts for the boat, because engine is broken (possibly),
d) find out some missing guy (why? explained later),
e) pay the owner/make something for him or kill him (some negative consequences) to get the boat.

Feel free to modify it/add something, it's just a way I see it...



What we can do after player will enter the sub?

Simple variant:

a) player must only disarm targeting systems,
b) without proper skills/playing as dumb/without deactivation codes any attempts to disarm warheads may cause explosion (or maybe Luck check?).

Feel free to modify it/add something, it's just a way I see it...



NPCs on the board (shoot them all variant):

a) two or three (or more) Enclave guys,
b) player is eliminating the opposition,
c) player must disarm targeting systems,
d) without proper skills/playing as dumb/without deactivation codes any attempts to disarm warheads may cause explosion (or maybe Luck check?).


NPCs on the board (diplomatic and shoot them all variant):

a) two or three (or more) Enclave guys,
b) one engineer who is working for Enclave on targeting systems,
c) player can lie (high speech) that he was sent to check how everything is going,
d) player may convince (high speech) that engineer to such thing: signature of Tanker's signal is wrong, change this immediately!,
e) player must kill Enclave guys and engineer who is working for Enclave if fail to convince them (low speech) or if he wants,
f) if engineer is dead player must disarm targeting systems,
g) without proper skills/playing as dumb/without deactivation codes any attempts to disarm warheads may cause explosion (or maybe Luck check?).

or:

a) two or three (or more) Enclave guys,
b) one engineer who was forced to work for Enclave on targeting systems (that missing guy),
c) player can lie (high speech) that he was sent to check how everything is going,
d) player must kill Enclave guys if fail to convince them (low speech),
e) if d) = true then Enclave guys will try to kill the engineer who was forced to work for Enclave (that missing guy),
f) player can rescue that engineer (take him back to the docks) if he'll disable targeting systems,
g) if engineer will disable targeting systems and if d) = false then Enclave guys will try to kill that engineer,
h) if player wants may kill the engineer, if he do that and if d) = false then Enclave guys will try to kill the player,
i) if player wants may kill all NPCs,
j) if engineer is dead player must disarm targeting systems,
k) without proper skills/playing as dumb/without deactivation codes any attempts to disarm warheads may cause explosion (or maybe Luck check?).

Feel free to modify it/add something, it's just a way I see it...



What to do if player will rescue that missing guy?

- some kind of reward (karma +).

Feel free to modify it/add something, it's just a way I see it...



What to do if player will fail to rescue that missing guy?

- nothing.

Feel free to modify it/add something, it's just a way I see it...



What to do if player will kill missing guy?

- player can lie that he was shoot by Enclave guys (karma -):
a) if fail to convince to his version (low speech) then combat begins,
b) if succeed to convince (high speech) then some kind of reward.

Feel free to modify it/add something, it's just a way I see it...




BTW. Yesterday I figured out some sub specific quests (just a variations about bad ass monsters in the "basement" at the Tanker):

"Kill bad ass monsters that occupied engines room and because they're damn noisy, guys right behind to them can't sleep in night."
or
"Save poor girlfriend of some guy from 1st level, because that bitch was stupid enough to go inside torpedo tube and some fucktard from 2nd level is running on Jet and he wants to fire that tube and send the bitch on the moon!"

 

[Grayswandir]

Okay, now that's serious talking.

a) find out where sub is located (SF or Navarro), in the same script as the emperor
b) get deactivation codes in Navarro maybe? (from a shi official?)
(c) find missing parts for the boat, because engine is broken (possibly),
d) find out some missing guy (why? explained later),
e) pay the owner/make something for him or kill him (some negative consequences) to get the boat.

That i can do.


So to make it compatible with Josan version, there is just to make it with 3 levels (that contie already made i think?)

First floor is the computer room, wich has been stripped of its talking IA (the Emperor); So you would have to go to the torpedo room to enter the code manualy. There are also some NPC you can talk to/ kill, If you have very high speech skill, the engineer do it for you.
Second floor is full of trap left behind by the shi, there you reactivate the machine room to have some power.
In the 3 floor, you find the journal of one of the people trapped/left behind, contradicting the story the shi told you. And you have a computer where you can desactivate the torpedo.

Josan, could you agree to that?

My only modification would be about the enclave presence. but I suppose you did it to make it compatible with the navarro thing, right?
I personaly would go with the Shi controling the sub, with a little shitty story about how they got scarred by the power of the enclave, when they saw them using the tanker building navarro. So they decided to use their trump card, their sub. They repair and reactivated the sub (after the enclave left the tanker at SF) to prevent the enclave using it to atack them by sea. The tanker become a target when you activate the enclave Fob(or because of signature, whatever).
You get aware that there is a menace against the tanker because some shi get sarcastic about the tanker never being used again without their autorisation.

The only difference is that the npc in the sub are Shi guards instead, i know its a lousy excuse, but it is as good as the enclave targeting a ship they might want to reuse I think.

About the sub in water versus sub stranded at shore, I personaly couldn't care less, so long a decision is taken. With a 1 week poll maybe? The winner get to do the exterior map he wants...

 

[Ravager69]

OK I have an idea.

How about crazy-ass ghouls taking over the sub and threating to nuke SF and other towns if they won't get supplies or something? The sub is now heavily irradiated so no one can go there and negotiate\kill them and the Shi employ you to reach a compromise or eliminate them. This would prove a threat to the tanker, because the ghouls will fire at anything big approaching them. The sub is somewhere on a beach, partially in the water \ in a dry dock, whatever. The player needs either a PA or shitload of Rad-X, then he has to get there and either convince them to leave or disarm it without their permission and kill them.

So, what do you think?

 

[Darek]

@ Continuum and anyone else who are interested:
You totally missed my point with what I was trying to say with the tanker being used in Navarro.
I don't think that ever happened. And unless someone (looking at Mikael Grizzly) can back it up somehow, it should be totally disregarded. The Tanker was used pre-wartime by Poseidon Oil. Navarro was a refinery for said company. After the war the the tanker was locked down by the Enclave and years later the Navarro base was established as their primary main base and vertibird refueling station. But not with the help of the tanker as far as I've been able to see.

Also, I haven't been able too find anything official that says the Emperor was ever on board the submarine or even built from scavenged electronics from it, the only thing mentioned is the stripped steel.
So there is no need to include anything about that unless you want to.


Anyway I'm with Grayswandir in that I don't really care where the sub is located, as long as it's not at the docks, but I think it has already been agreed to not be the case.
As for deconstructed or not, I'm fine with both. I would prefer not or as intact as possible, since it leaves more room for content/quests and would make more sense to me.
What I do have a problem with is involving the Enclave here. Why? Just because you need a badguy/enemy?
It's a Chinese defense system against the Americans, it is active and has been since the shi abandoned it.
The tanker was not used to establish Navarro, so no need to worry about that.
Why would the Enclave feel the need for the extra protection against the tanker? As far as they are concerned the tanker is inoperable. No fuel, no nav comp part and most importantly the FOB is in safe hands back in Navarro.

If the Enclave have to be on the sub, I would rather do it this way:

a) find out where sub is located (SF), from the Emperor? (needs to be looked into)
b) get deactivation codes in SF. (from a shi official, emperor, Shi related to the old captain or hidden somewhere on the sub?)
c) find missing parts for the boat, because engine is broken (possibly),
d) find out some missing guy (why? explained later)
e) pay the owner/make something for him or kill him (some negative consequences) to get the boat.

Hop in the boat to deactivate the sub, but When the player arrives he/she finds the Enclave there.
The sub is not fully operational but the enclave are working on restoring it.
They only found it recently and haven't been there long.
Why are they there and what do they want with the sub? I don't know. Research of some kind?
And then go from there...

Other than that I would probably vote for Grayswandir's compromise suggestion.

Oh also, if the sub is in the waters and being partially repaired, maybe it's possible to get it unstuck and/or afloat, and then towed back to the docks, much to the happiness of the Shi and the people who wants to see the exterior of the sub.

 

[Continuum]

So to make it compatible with Josan version, there is just to make it with 3 levels (that contie already made i think?)

What do you mean, round walls or default FO's walls (because they're a totally different things)?

Also, is compatible only with the boat, small map with the sail, because sub is under the water and because of that you need the boat to get into the sail, which top part is visible over the water. In any other case boat is simply useless. And Josan and others want to see large part of exterior beached somewhere/etc. So, I don't see any compatibility here!

First floor is the computer room, wich has been stripped of its talking IA (the Emperor); So you would have to go to the torpedo room to enter the code manualy. There are also some NPC you can talk to/ kill, If you have very high speech skill, the engineer do it for you.
Second floor is full of trap left behind by the shi, there you reactivate the machine room to have some power.
In the 3 floor, you find the journal of one of the people trapped/left behind, contradicting the story the shi told you. And you have a computer where you can desactivate the torpedo.

Once again, what's the point? Just to explore empty interior (or filled with bad ass monsters or Enclave guys, so you can start shooting to them/they'll start shooting to you)? You can include everything what is needed on the one level only.

As for the traps: if Enclave is controlling (garrison like thing) the sub why do they need the traps inside? The best way would be to put sea mines around the sub, but it's pointless, because you can't walk on the water... So, the only thing which could be trapped is the hatch on the sail (because I consider to click on the hatch - player is standing on the sail, instead of the boat).

I personaly would go with the Shi controling the sub, with a little shitty story about how they got scarred by the power of the enclave, when they saw them using the tanker building navarro. So they decided to use their trump card, their sub. They repair and reactivated the sub (after the enclave left the tanker at SF) to prevent the enclave using it to atack them by sea. The tanker become a target when you activate the enclave Fob(or because of signature, whatever).

Sure, it may also work... but, since Shi are giving you the fuel, so why they shouldn't help you to disable targeting systems/disarm torpedoes since they're controlling the sub? When they're going to help you then forget about exploding submarine or shooting to someone, or diplomatic/science character options, or saving poor guy... Also, why do you need any new art - just talk with their stupid computer: "Click damn button and deactivate targeting systems, because I'm going to destroy Enclave, the bad assess you're fearing of!". It's just a way I see it... if my way of thinking is wrong then correct me

About the sub in water versus sub stranded at shore, I personaly couldn't care less, so long a decision is taken. With a 1 week poll maybe? The winner get to do the exterior map he wants...

Once again, I don't care about the the polls, since we already know what the result will be - I want to see large part of exterior!

Most people only see/need a sub as a cool radiated/dangerous place to explore and finally disarming torpedoes, nothing more, so I followed by this "patch" and because I don't see any single reason to make shitload of work only for that, I decided to make a top part of the sail, nothing more, since the rest is underwater. Everything else inside the sub can be done at the 1st level (one level only submarine).

And I'm not going to change my mind because I'm totally demotivated because of endless, pointless discussions about bible raping, reading about more and more crazy ideas (walking on sea floor, walking inside flooded level, making deconstructed part visible on outside and from inside) or how big disappointment would be to not see deconstructed exterior, etc. because almost everyone focused on the visuals and forgot about everything else. What a bad luck...


Sure, if someone else wants to make whole exterior feel free do it, I already wrote about it twice

What I do have a problem with is involving the Enclave here. Why? Just because you need a badguy/enemy?

No, no, no, no. I'm not obsessed with Enclave or just because I need a bad assess. I simply find this as the most fitting story for the boat, small map with the sail, interior with one level only and disarm torpedoes thing, because they will sink the Tanker which will be used by the player to get into Oil Rig (threat to Enclave), and because of that I'm able to included an option for a diplomatic character and for science/repair character (if you'll fail to get deactivation codes) and the idea about player's dead if he'll try to disarm torpedoes without proper skills (when fail to get deactivation codes) or playing as a dumb + an option to rescue some poor guy...

If someone will figure out something better then feel free to alter it. The same goes for the quests, or "I haven't been able too find anything official that says the Emperor was ever on board the submarine or even built from scavenged electronics from it", or "the submarine is kind of unfitting, because the tanker has been used previously, to establish the Navarro base. Why wasn't it destroyed then?", etc.

I just want to move things little a bit forward, and to came up with something other than the pointless debates I mentioned above...

It's a Chinese defense system against the Americans, it is active and has been since the shi abandoned it.

Sure, it can done in this way, just empty and old sub with no NPCs on the board. I have no problem with this You can keep things simplified as possible. We can even skip the boat, to not complicate things too much:

- start talking with some NPC,
- get information where sub is,
- click on the take me to the sub line in dialogue options,
- new map with small interior is loaded.

Why would the Enclave feel the need for the extra protection against the tanker? As far as they are concerned the tanker is inoperable. No fuel, no nav comp part and most importantly the FOB is in safe hands back in Navarro.

If not protection against the Tanker then maybe: sub has a warheads on the board, so why damn militarists shouldn't pick the easy opportunity to scavenge them? And because of that their presence there.