Submarine Mod

[Darek]

Point is, it doesn't fit, because the Emperor came from the Shih-huang-ti, indicating the sub was in an easy-to-reach spot, somewhere where the Shi were able to get heavy duty construction equipment to remove the monstrous mainframe. That's why it'd be located in the docks area.

You are basing your vision on:

1. The emperor mainframe comes from the sub, so it has to be in the harbor. -

What if it doesn't? Where has it ever been stated that the Emperor is from the sub? Ken Lee is the only one saying anything about parts from the sub, and he's talking about stripped metal. He also says some people don't believe that and they say there are no submarine.
Now don't you think if the sub is lying in the harbor, a few meters away from the tanker, everyone and their cat would know about it?

2. The Valdez tanker was used to establish the base in Navarro, so the auto defense systems have to be activated. -

The tanker was locked down after the war and Navarro wasn't established until much later, so it's not very likely it was used. Where did you get that from?



Also, in a bombed out city there would be plenty of scrap metal around, but that was not good enough for the Shi, they just had to take it from the sub because... why exactly?
Maybe as a cover story when they decided to scrap the sub from the game. Since they also have the Emperor saying the chances for the sub being in the game is 0%, I get that feeling.

My point is that nothing really fits with the sub. There is very little info in the game and in the bible, and what is there contradict each other anyway, so something will have to change from how it is now no matter what. And that leaves pretty much freedom to design this however one would want.
You have your vision, others have theirs, hopefully it will be possible to find a compromise, but please don't talk about "not fitting" other than in a general Fallout sense.

 

[Jesterka]

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Ha.

I'm laughing my ass of in this thread, guys.

To begin with, what Fallout Bible raping are you so furiously talking about, Mr. Vault Furry? You mean the one Bible that's already raped for million times to every possible holes?

If I got it right, you're referring to some Shi dialog matter, but hey, you have still present anti-falloutish horeshit of epic proportions in front of your doorstep, like talking Broken Hills flowers and radscorpions nearly counting algebra. I know, I nearly might make an answer alone: hey, this was made by Chris Cambell, and Chris Cambell was a fucking BIS Godhood member! Cause everything that BIS guys touched surely turns into a gold!

So, from the purely pragmatic angle: Contie's doing the art, thus Contie's, I'd say, a design leader, by reason of being completely irreplaceable (at least if you wanna have a sub). And because 95% of anything announced here on NMA (aka idle talk specialists place ) goes sooner or later to hell, he's actually walking on a pretty thin ice and maybe wasting his time for nothing. So, any offense on him is rather ridiculous.

Anyway, just saying. I'd myself give it a fuck. The more bad atmosphere, the higher chance for subbie to end up as a BGE property. At least the project has got some writers/programmers.

 

[Lexx]

I includet the boat into a map from SD2 and I love it.

 

[Jesterka]

Yey, fucking sweet, we're going to upload it on BGE's SVN today.

 

[Josan12]

Oh dear, well this project has become bogged down.

Well, personally, i just want this sub - however it manifests - to be an awesome, damn cool, inspiring location that i WANT to explore. I want it to make me as the player FEEL something when i explore it - scared, amazed, lost, amused, something like this. I want to feel immershun in the atmosphere, the environment - the setting. I want to feel like it's an insurmountable challenge that i'll have to use all my cunning and skills to overcome!!

The story so far:

a) Click on Conties very cool boat
b) talk to some Enclave technicians and get them to disarm the torpedo/missle (or kill them and do it yourself?)
c) go to the tanker

Deeply uninspiring. To me this just seems like the quickest way to get this project done. I mean - what's the design concept? It sounds like a day at work except you get there by boat! My original design doc suggested using the old classic concept of a 'ghost ship' as inspiration for the design. But unfortunately it seems Contie and i differ here as i believe (along with BIS it seems) that there is nothing wrong with using movie/book references and concepts - that in fact they can enrich and motivate the project.

While i love Contie's excellent boat (and artwork in general) i do find it ironic that we've ended up with a BOAT instead of a SUBMARINE. I guess that shows just how off-course this ship has sailed ..... i mean - where the hell did this boat come from anyway? Is it really that relevant to the project? It just seems like its distracting from the focus of the project which is to make a cool location the player can explore.

 

[Continuum]

Well, personally, i just want this sub - however it manifests - to be an awesome, damn cool, inspiring location that i WANT to explore. I want it to make me as the player FEEL something when i explore it - scared, amazed, lost, amused, something like this. I want to feel immershun in the atmosphere, the environment - the setting. I want to feel like it's an insurmountable challenge that i'll have to use all my cunning and skills to overcome!!

If you want something then why don't you do it? What's the problem? I'm not going to blindly do something because YOU want. For more read previous pages.

Also, everything you said sounds like... Oblivion! Exploring empty world/locations filled with teh graphics and immershun! with no substance.

The story so far:

a) Click on Conties very cool boat
b) talk to some Enclave technicians and get them to disarm the torpedo/missle (or kill them and do it yourself?)
c) go to the tanker

Deeply uninspiring.

And your story sounds better?

- enter the sub,
- talk with ghost and talking missiles,
- go to the Tanker.

Does this sound soo deeply inspiring?

But unfortunately it seems Contie and i differ here as i believe (along with BIS it seems) that there is nothing wrong with using movie/book references and concepts

Stop with this BIS bullshit. They filled Fallout 2 with horseshit of epic proportions and I must follow by this type of RETARDED design? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

that in fact they can enrich and motivate the project.

Enrich with what? With idiocy?

and motivate the project.

I see something totally opposite to your statement: a total demotivation.

I guess that shows just how off-course this ship has sailed .....

Yep, the sub is definitely on the crash course.

i mean - where the hell did this boat come from anyway?

Well, from the Fallout Bible, written by your beloved design Gods? Because how do you want to reach the sub which is buried beneath in the waters? Maybe by using diving bell or by jumping on parachute from the Vertibird? Or by walking on sea floor?

Also, I make damn boat as a side effect of this whole sub debate, which is the only good thing so far... I didn't force anyone to include it in this particular mod (for more read previous pages).

It just seems like its distracting from the focus of the project which is to make a cool location the player can explore.

Then make the art, fill it with ghost, talking missiles, shitloads of references to every possible movie you have seen in your life and explorer it!

Have a nice day.

 

[Grayswandir]

Yep, the sub is definitely on the crash course.

What? Why?
Everything is going rather smoothly I think.
We are going to go on with you idea, which is has the merits to be realisable in a "short time" , you release the arts, and everyone can make whatever he wants using your idea as basis.


http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/184/submarinekq9.th.gif
By the way, will the 3 levels be ready to use? I mean, without much work? I don't really care if there isn't any tube in the 3 level, but the structure of the second, will you prolongate it?


Where are we at the moment ? as i said, I am working on the first script, i will tell you if I succeed with it.
So what would be next? I remember someone mentioning some cutting at the beginning of the thread...

 

[Continuum]

you release the arts, and everyone can make whatever he wants using your idea as basis.

Sub isn't a small piece of junk which you can put wherever you want. Art MUST be heavily integrated with the design (beached, submerged, deconstructed, etc.). Josan and Glovz (not to mention about others) want to make something totally different than I. And if you want to make three levels submarine it's better to use default walls, otherwise there'll be no consistency between levels: 1st round, the rest not. Even levels itself must be integrated with design (because the sub can be settled down, or just rusty and untouched, or scavenged from everything inside), the same goes for the scenery.

So, releasing the art as it is, is pointless, IMO.

By the way, will the 3 levels be ready to use? I mean, without much work? I don't really care if there isn't any tube in the 3 level, but the structure of the second, will you prolongate it?

No. As I said I'm not going to make 2nd and 3rd level, because they're totally unnecessary, it's only a time wasting.

Where are we at the moment ?

I don't know where we are. To be honest: I'm sick of this whole shit. And I'm going to quit it. There's no ANY compromise in fundamental things. And I'm not going to force anyone to accept my way of thinking/approach to the game and no one is going to force me to accept his way of thinking. Also, no matter what you'll script whatever you want!

And since,

i'd be willing to make the 3D model of the sub exterior

so, third time I'm saying about this compromise: Josan will make whole exterior (whatever he wants), I'll make a default FO's walls and you'll implement whatever design you want (ghosts, talking missiles or shitload of references to movies). You'll use existing scenery or Jotisz will make a custom one.

Everyone will be happy.

 

[Ravager69]

OK people, I propose to do it like this - the sub has been beached close to the tankerand turned into a settlement, just like the tanker was. People ripped a hole in the side of the tanker for easy access.

Something like this (no laughing):


Now, the electricity on the sub was busted, but some hired Shi techs managed to get the thing to work. Unfortunatly, this triggered some alarm and the sub's last operational warhead (the rest was rendered useless during the beaching) is armed and ready to fire at ANY big target that'll move - i.e. the tanker. Disarming the warhead is beyond what even Shi techs can do and will require some ancient pre-war device, as well as high science skill and some rare books\help from a genius (Myron?).

This way you can put loads of content into the sub ( a city is perfect for this ) AND have neat artwork to look at.

 

[Demonslayer]

The sub will have only one level?

 

[Luigibacsi]

OK people, I propose to do it like this - the sub has been beached close to the tankerand turned into a settlement, just like the tanker was. People ripped a hole in the side of the tanker for easy access.

Something like this (no laughing):


Now, the electricity on the sub was busted, but some hired Shi techs managed to get the thing to work. Unfortunatly, this triggered some alarm and the sub's last operational warhead (the rest was rendered useless during the beaching) is armed and ready to fire at ANY big target that'll move - i.e. the tanker. Disarming the warhead is beyond what even Shi techs can do and will require some ancient pre-war device, as well as high science skill and some rare books\help from a genius (Myron?).

This way you can put loads of content into the sub ( a city is perfect for this ) AND have neat artwork to look at.

Continuum had a similar idea on the previous page. I think this is how it should be made.

 

[Tom9k]

Aw, that boat is sooooo cute

 

[agris]

Is there any design document posted or proposed? seems this sub project is becoming a battle of egos. obviously the community is grateful for any additions made to the game in the spirit of the originals, but ingratiating ourselves to anyone to continue work on this isn't a sustainable plan. there should be a posted, updated, and _perhaps_ commented on design document from the minds putting it all together.

my 2 cents.

 

[Jesterka]

DD? What exactly for? This is a kind of fake-project.

 

[Ravager69]

DD? What exactly for? This is a kind of fake-project.

And this is kind of a spam-post.


Anyway, I could write the docs as soon as we'll reach a compromise on how to do it more or less.

 

[Josan12]

Is there any design document posted or proposed?

Yes i wrote a Design Doc ages ago but it got ignored. It was intended to be added to as it was just a start. It really needs updating as ideas like the talking bombs (from the movie 'Dark Star') have been thrown out. Also it won't be situated on the docks anymore. Continuum hates the ghosts - etc etc. Here's the text posted:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

San Fransisco Submarine design doc

THE SUBMARINE

The CSS SHI-HUANG-TI is a 1955 nuclear submarine named after China's first true emperor. At the time of the great nuclear war, she had been out on patrol off the coast of Japan. Her crew stood on deck and watched as Japan was consumed in flames and radiation. She lost contact with the Chinese Naval Command shortly after and drifted at sea fearing to go near the devastated, irradiated landmasses.

Some time later, the subs reactor developed a leak while far out in the Pacific, and had to be shut down. The lowest floor became badly contaminated and had to be quickly evacuated and sealed, cutting the crew off from their main supply store before they had time to salvage supplies. Later it was discovered a few crew members were unaccounted for and the rest of the crew realised they had probably been trapped inside the lowest floor. She drifted for a long time at sea under the darkening skies of a nuclear winter, and the crew survived by fishing and improvised trawling, and collecting rainwater on deck. Eventually one of the crew spotted land and the Shi-Huang-Ti limped into San Fransisco bay on her deisel backup engine 1 year and 2 months after the nuclear holocaust. The Chinese crew on board then formed the Shi and chinese population of SF.

The tanker was stripped by the Shi of it's 6 nukes which were squirreled away, and the hull was partially deconstructed for it's steel and other resources.
The ship was then abandoned and the people avoided it, fearing it's poisionous gases and insidious radiation. Left for many years, the rusting hulk of the Shi-Huang-Ti slowly started to sink. The rusting process of the ships underbelly, significantly speeded up by the leaking toxic waste from the reactor had breached the hull. Noxious gases leaked up into the second floor.

Early in the Shi's development as a society, men turned up in specialized armour suits and started work on the Shi-Huang-Ti with the help of robots. They shored up the sub's hull to stop it sinking any further, and then went deep into it's belly. They sent robots into the dark, flooded recesses of the highly radioactive lower floor into the torpedo room and set up an automated system that set the torpedo's to fire at the tanker or any other boat should it try to leave. They rigged the torpedo's with AI to enable them to respond independantly to threats. Over the many years in-between then and the arrival of the chosen one, the 3 torpedos refined their AI circuitry and developed quite a high level of intelligence and develped their own personalities. Number 5 went completely mad. Number 13 so englightened it says nothing. Number 3 highly philosophical but annoying. Number 3 is rigged to fire, and the player will have to disarm it one way or another in order to safely take the Tanker to the Enclave Rig. (see movie 'Dark Star' quote below)

The Enclave men left and sealed the Sub for good, rigging it with traps and devices to make sure the Shi or anyone else wouldn't interfere with their security system.

THE DOCKS

1) Some of the people on the dock will talk about the ghost of a child that emerges from the guts of the ship.

2) The retina scanner in the dock room is a secondary way into the 2nd floor.

3) Ming:

Ming is one of the fishermen who lives and works around the dock. He is located in the shack with the retinal scanner in it.
He knows a little about the Shi-Huang-Ti and will give the player some practical information.

4) Wiyagi:

Wiyagi is a crazy old man who is a reference to Mr Miyagi from 'Karate Kid'. He will talk about 'waxing on', and loves to play Tragic. The player wil have to beat him at the game to get any information about the sub from him.

He knows a great deal about the sub and claims to be one of the orginal crew. He can give the player the key to the weapons locker and tell him about the story of the sub, the radiation leak etc. He will also rant on about the I Ching.

FIRST FLOOR

1) The top floor is inhabited by the ghosts of 3 children (brothers) that got trapped and died in there.

- THe player can talk to one of them - and take a message from his body to the boys mother who lives on the beach in a tent.
- One of the boys will give hints about the dangers that lie in wait for the player further below.

2) This floor has been almost completely looted. There are maps and papers lying around (all in chinese) and the player can find the launch key for the Nukes. Unfortunately there are no nukes to launch.

3) The store at the far end is locked. Inside are the bodies of 3 children. A bunch of grenades. A 'Dao' (chinese sword) and a 'Quiang' (chinese spear)

-) In the weapons locker the player will find a number of useless corroded 'Chinese assault rifles' - a reference to FO3.

When the player uses the hatch down to the second floor, they will get a message saying "you smell some kind of foul-smelling gas emanating from below the hatch"

SECOND FLOOR

1) This is the primary crew floor. It is filled with invisible, noxious, explosive gases that will:

a) cause the player and everyone around him/her to explode should they create a spark
b) Increase the players poison level every game tick unless they are wearing an enviro-suit or PA.

2) It is home to a bunch of centaurs and floaters (descendents of the trapped crewmen or left there by the Enclave - who knows?). They will attack the player at close-quarters in the cramped spaces making for a difficult fight without guns.

3) The player can find a journal kept by the trapped crew - it illustrates their horrible descent into mutation as their minds are twisted into that of a foul, animal-like nature (or not)

THIRD FLOOR

1) The player will be able to use science to somehow get the deactivation code. Or get it from an NPC (the Shi?)

2) The first challenge confronting the player will be to repair and restart the ships backup diesel engine. This will restore light to some parts of the ship and activate the water pumps.

3) The next challenge will be a small maze of compartments - some flooded and some not. The player will have to use the pump controller to pump out some rooms and allow others to flood behind him/her cutting off his/her escape should the centaurs/floaters become too difficult to fight. Some of the pumps will be broken and players with a repair skill will be able to repair them to make the challenge easier.

4) (OPTIONAL) The player could even potentially find a way to get out of the ship through one of the hull breaches and walk around on the sea bed

5) the player will suffer 4 radiation damage per game tick on this floor (a similar level to that of the Gecko reactor)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

As i said - this is only a start

http://www.badongo.com/file/13092870

I also made floorplans but again they seem to be largley ignored:




@ Continuum: as a compromise how about you decide on the exterior and i decide on the interior??. As i said i would prefer that the sub is beached, and the player walks to it but i don't mind that much. So you would also decide on how much of the exterior is shown. But for the record i prefer this one:



This art is just too good to go to waste

For the interior i suggest we start with the info i wrote in the DD (modified for location of course) and then everyone who wants can add to it as a wiki page (is this possible?) The same goes for the floorplans. We could put the number of levels to a vote - but if the consensus decides there's only going to be 1 where the player just asks some enclave techs to disarm the torpedo then someone else can make the map as i would find that - as i said - uninspirational.
If the vote decides on 3 levels i would make the maps (or possibly a team of 3 making one level each that is then edited by the others)

How's that for a compromise?

 

[Ravager69]

Well, if the people will decide to make three levels and Conti will agree to the beached sub, I'd love to see lower levels partially buried in sand and some mutated beach monsters dwelling in the lower level.

 

[Glovz]

Not a fan of:
1- Ghosts on the sub (just don't see a need)
2- Any AI on the sub (the Emporer was the ships AI)
3- The Enclave knowing about the sub (this just doesn't seem to fit in)

All this is just my opinion.

Personally I've started to give up hope for this mod.

 

[Grayswandir]

i kinda just would like to get my hand on the files for a personal project of mine...
Without exterior view of the sub, torpedo thing, flooded/ stranded, etc, etc...

So Continum, can i haz the files pliz ?

I don't care if there are not finished... Full credit on your arts as usual...

 

[earthdude]

If we really need to have people on the sub, why not a) a madman or b) the Brotherhood of Steel. Both would have reasons to be interested in it and to keep it very quiet from everyone else. I'm with the others that don't like the Enclave or even the Shi involved with it. Just my 2 coins worth (not that anyone was asking).