Suggestion thoughts now that you've seen the engine.

seeing oblivion, i dont doubt the abilities of Bethesda's engine. however, one thing may look great in another but placed in another setting may not. all that shininess of oblivion doesnt look authentic to me, altho its pretty to look at.

many people believe that what makes Fallout is this and that, but I say what makes Fallout is everything that we've experienced so far in both games- 2d, isometric, death animations, post-apoc 50s setting, the music, special, TB, consequences of actions....

people are forgetting that its not so much as what makes a great rpg, but what made Fallout, Fallout in the first place. its all the bits and pieces that made the whole game.

I am not against moving forward and improving it, but 3d graphics and first person/3rd person may not and will probably not stay true to the overall feel of the game. for example, i played Baldur's Gate (i know many of you hate it. hehe) and i liked the look and feel of it (other factors are not taken into consideration because their not relevant to the point). When Neverwitner Knights was coming out, i was excited to play it expecting it to have the same look and feel but in 3d. But when i played it, it lost the appeal i had. the 3d look was just plain and boring (and also the fact the story was uninspiring).

there are many things to tweak in Fallout, but there should be no major alterations. I believe changing the look and feel is a big thing. its like getting plasctic surgery, you're intentions are good but it just not right. the result does not blend in with the original piece. tweak the skillset, perks but not the look and feel please. i can compare it to someone getting a sex change... something's terribly gone wrong.

all im saying is, im scared that Bethesda is doing Fallout in 3d seeing what they done in Oblivion. I cant see them successfully imitating the look and feel of the original Fallouts (besides other things)
 
You know, just a thought here.... but is it really so bad for Fallout to be 3D? That's what everyone said about Mario until Mario 64 came out. Just a thought...
 
Kilocron said:
You know, just a thought here.... but is it really so bad for Fallout to be 3D? That's what everyone said about Mario until Mario 64 came out. Just a thought...
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very little people (almost none that i know of) have anything against FO3 being 3D Kilocron...

you're confusing things, i think. check my sig for instance:
"Isometric view (nothing against 3D)/SPECIAL/non-linear story/turn-based combat/dialog trees"
that's the view of most people here.
 
The scary thing is how many gamers want something easy with a crosshair. I was going through my game collection with my little brother (who is 13, same age as me when I started fallouting) and let me list the choices and his reasons against:

Fallout - no cross hair, wants to move with WASD. Need to actually engage in conversation with people (something he has trouble with this on an intelectual scale aswell)
Splinter Cell - too hard, not enough shooting, too much thinking
Homeworld - far too hard, requires patience
Jedi Acadamy - nearly but needs cheat codes
AOE2 - Duh, has swords n' old stuff - no guns
Stronghold - same, but why'd you wanna build a castle
Commandos - Woah tiger, slow down, that requires thinking, timing and understanding consequences
Creatures - God! Nurturing things - I wanna be killing them with my uber pwning gun.
Call of Duty 2 - Great, but only if i can play the easier setting: don't want to tax myself with getting killed more than once a hour

I was day dreaming about playing a demo of the up coming FO3 and realised half way through that what I was envisioning- pointy clicky red cursor with percentages to hit was probably not something I was going to see in this or anyother game in the near future. Essentially, we'll be lucky to get something 3rd person perhaps, maybe even with a click attack interface-like WOW but just remember we aren't really a large enough target audience to cater to our every whim (and damnit, as a community were a bunch or rabid deathclaws just waiting for something to kill)
 
Silent Storm did a great job of making a 3D turn based shooter. If they make the gameplay like that along with the SPECIAL system and some good dialog, there's nothing wrong with a "modern" FO3.
 
The problem with 3 D graphics is, that the developers try to bash all the other engines avalible... and totaly forgetting gameplay, atmosphere and all the necessery things for a good game.

Fallout 1 was SO well ballanced. The graphics were perfect for the purpose.

The gameplay was awesome.

The atmosphere was unique.

It was not JUST about SPECIAL, the dialouges, the setting... it was because of the harmony between all of the things.
Even Fallout 2 couldn't reach it, because there were different people involved.

So what do you expect of fallout 3? It'll BE different. There WILL be so many people disappointed... but that's life.
 
Vox said:
The problem with 3 D graphics is, that the developers try to bash all the other engines avalible... and totaly forgetting gameplay, atmosphere and all the necessery things for a good game.
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...
This is just stupid, this has absolutely nothing to do with 3d graphics but with the focus of the development teams. 3D graphics are not in any way at fault for this.

Vox said:
Fallout 1 was SO well ballanced. The graphics were perfect for the purpose.

The gameplay was awesome.

The atmosphere was unique.

It was not JUST about SPECIAL, the dialouges, the setting... it was because of the harmony between all of the things.
Even Fallout 2 couldn't reach it, because there were different people involved.

So what do you expect of fallout 3? It'll BE different. There WILL be so many people disappointed... but that's life.
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Weeee, yet another prophet. I really wonder where people get all this information.
 
Sander said:
Weeee, yet another prophet. I really wonder where people get all this information.
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Huh? All he's saying is it will be different there will be people dissapointed. This was true of Fallout 2 vis-a-vis 1 too. It's not prophecy, it's just...true.
 
Suffer said:
Huh? All he's saying is it will be different there will be people dissapointed. This was true of Fallout 2 vis-a-vis 1 too. It's not prophecy, it's just...true.
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Yes, it won't be exactly the same. But he's not just implying that there will be differences, he's also implying that those differences will be negative and would all dissappoint us. Furthermore, he doesn't offer it as an opinion, but as a statement of fact, which is silly and quite impossible to know at this point.

And no, Vox, I don't suffer from delusions. I do suffer from the concept that nothing yet is known and hence very little can be known.
 
Vox never stated we would all be disappointed.
There WILL be so many people disappointed
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People don't like seeing the things they love changed radically, hence the large doses of disappointment. Regardless of the decision they make, let's face it, there will be at least one niggling point that will disappoint. hell, everyone's already dissapointed about news of the engine. Vox isn't prophecising, he's going on what other members of the board have said. Whilst he was wrong to tell you you're delusional, you have a tenedncy to attack other members of the board for expressing similar views to the ones Vox has.
 
Changes are practically guaranteed to be for the worse. A sequel that redefines a certain aspect of the predecessor is almost *always* considered inferior by fans of the predecessor. That fact has been empirically proven numerous times.

It remains to be seen how radically BethSoft will alter the Fallout formula. Personally, I have no doubt that Fallout 3 will be a tremendous disappointment for me. I have good reasons for such confidence and something really major will need to happen to dissuade me or prove me wrong.
 
RPGenius said:
Vox never stated we would all be disappointed.
There WILL be so many people disappointed
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I never stated that he did. I did state that he was implying that we'd be disappointed, though.

RPGenius said:
People don't like seeing the things they love changed radically, hence the large doses of disappointment. Regardless of the decision they make, let's face it, there will be at least one niggling point that will disappoint. hell, everyone's already dissapointed about news of the engine.
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Ehm, who?
RPGenius said:
Vox isn't prophecising, he's going on what other members of the board have said. Whilst he was wrong to tell you you're delusional, you have a tenedncy to attack other members of the board for expressing similar views to the ones Vox has.
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Yes, because there is nothing to know so far.
How is this so hard to understand? There are no facts out there about what is happening now, so everything that is said is pure speculation. Speculation based on previous experiences, perhaps, but still speculation. Speculation stated as fact is prophecizing. Really.
 
Vox said:
And what's so wrong about speculation?
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Urgh.
Have you even read what I've been writing here?
Speculation is fine, but stating your speculations as fact is silly, which is exactly what you were doing.
 
Sander said:
Yes, because there is nothing to know so far.
How is this so hard to understand? There are no facts out there about what is happening now, so everything that is said is pure speculation. Speculation based on previous experiences, perhaps, but still speculation. Speculation stated as fact is prophecizing. Really.
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Unfortunately, I have to go by what Pete and Todd both say, and what my own contacts tell me (might be the same ones as VDweller's). Simply put, in the current development state, and in early prototype plans, don't plan on ANYTHING from SuAside's sig.

Not a single fucking thing. Including SPECIAL being fucked over into TES-like stat operation.

That doesn't even remotely sound like Fallout 3 to me, instead it sounds like what gameart3d thinks would be "fun" for themselves, which is Bethesda's target audience - those too stupid to enjoy solid design and instead just moo at graphics and shallow gameplay. They might have the TES fanboys who think it's the "best RPG evar" despite being their "first one" on the X-Brick (as if the X-Brick has anything other than shitty action games limited by console controls), and if they can do the same with a different setting flavor, maybe a little different mechanics style, they could churn out the game without doing much real effort that a CRPG requires. Take a look at Oblivion and how they neglected their own IP and trashed it, and you expect them to do better with something they picked up without really knowing what they were getting into, or decided to do the same thing as Chuck Cuevas and say "fuck the fans, we'll sell the 'post-apocalyptic pirates' to the console crowd". That didn't work. Now consider that Bethesda's target audience is Pure Lowest Common Denominator. Empirical evidence and design talent both are working against Bethesda right now.

As people expecting a sequel, I believe that it isn't too hard of a logical extrapolation that if Bethesda is developing Fallout 3 according to their own whim, and also for consoles, it's not going to be anything we could even halfway hope to expect to be good, or even Fallout. So, the Fallout series now goes from a CRPG, to a crappy tactical game, to an adventure shooter, to a dungeon crawler.

Do not downplay "TES with guns" so much, because that's where the alpha state is heading towards. And that's why myself and others are collecting up Todd and Pete's lies, so we can publicly call them out on them when the public sees these details as well. We will do so extensively and brutally, and as publicly as we can. I even have a news post made partially ready, "Todd Howard and Pete Hines are liars." as one possible headline.

I wonder if they will try the same lies, bullshit, and spin as Chuck, too. I anxiously await that day.
 
Tycell said:
If F3 is a FPS, I am going to smash the shelfing unit I see it stacked on, I swear to god.
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Wow, I hope this isn't a giant kick to the balls then.

Pete Hines said:
We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well.
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