Super Mutants and Enclave - Badass Decay?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Slaughter Manslaught, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    It's just me or the Super Mutants and the Enclave suffered a form of badass decay in relation to the previous games? Follow me now...

    Super Mutants:
    Fallout 1: They were retarded super-soldiers with military grade weaponry, a killing instinct, inhuman toughness, strength massive enough to shoot miniguns one-handed and super-intelligent leaders. Physhically, they ARE superior. Only Power Armor gave The Vault Dweller a chance to fight against those superhuman juggernaults of war. These guys would't even mind a shot by anything weaker than a combat shotgun burst. Their army is made of fanatic, disciplined Super Mutants with Centaurs and Floaters as "pets." They are many (around what, a thousand?) and dangerous.

    Fallout 2: They were stronger and more deadly than in the first game, although their army was broken down. Your first encounters with Super Mutants happen during the path between New Reno and NCR. There, the Remants of The Master's Army make mincemeat of anyone who passes near, and by anyone, I usually mean THE CHOSEN ONE. I know Super Mutants are usually supposed to be Super Humans, but seriously, the Remants of the Master's Army are pretty much the 3rd deadliest random encounter of the game, only topped by Bounty Hunters and Enclave Patrols. I swear to god they are cappable of killing my characters even when they wear Advanced Power Armor. And to further show how Super Mutants are badass, the Super Mutants Miners in Mariposa handly defeated ENCLAVE soldiers (lemme repeat that - ENCLAVE SOLDIERS WITH ADVANCED POWER ARMOR) and the survivors had to seal the entrance with explosives and run the fuck away. No one ever did that to the Enclave before The Chosen One. Not the NCR, nor the Shi. Certainly not the Brotherhood. But a bunch of Super Mutant miners managed to surprise and defeat a enclave squad. In Fallout 2, Super Mutants were so strong that anything weaker than a Pancor Jackhammer burs hardly scratched them.

    Fallout Tactics: Super Mutants were mid game enemies. Not the big bads, but strong as hell. I remember the Super Mutants were HAAAARD, and I'm not kidding here. Without armor, they could take a unnatural ammount of sniper rifle shots to the eyes. With amor, they were as resistant as someone in Power Armor. I'm not kidding, check the stats with the armor. Their weapons were usually absurdly strong big guns that could kill your squad before you saw them. They were your second harsh wake-up call (the first was Preoria... god, how I hated those MOTHERFUCKING laser turrets). They didn't had energy weapons, but they had something else: Some of them used miniguns and even the dreaded M2 Browing. My instant reaction to those monsters was to command all my squad members to MURDER those Super well-armed Mutants. That machinegun was so ubber-powerful that it had a 9 ST requirement and could kill any and all characters with one burst. Those guys were NOT pushovers, kids. I think the only reason they were defeated is that they were fighting a two-way war with the Brotherhood and The Calculator's robots.

    Fallout 3: Super Mutants are a bunch of orc-like mook monsters who decided to kill everyone for no reason. Ever. They were only threatening when the rare mutant with a minigun surprised you in the early game. A Super Mutant Brute with a minigun managed to defeat my character on my way to Arefu. My weapons were a 10mm pistol and some grenades. As soon as you get a hunting rifle and some skill, however, they turn into weak mooks to be killed em masse instead of the Super-Human juggernaults of war in the first two games and FOT. My first real battle with they was in the Roosevelt Library. Only Super Mutants with miniguns were sometimes threatening. Super Mutants with hunting rifles, assault rifles and nailboards? Bah, cannon fodder. When I came to washington, the only threat was in their numbers and those Masters with miniguns. Where the hell are the muties with Laser Rifles and rocket launchers? I only found muties with Rocket Launchers once or twice. That's that. Outside of that, the only TRULY threatening situation happened when I was getting out of a alley and saw two Talon Company Mercenaries. After almost being killed by those two, I killed and looted them. A Super Mutant with a hunting rifle appeared. I retreated to the alley and tried to finish this mutant off. Then another came. And another. AAAAND another. Soon, I was dealing with ten mutants shooting me inside a alley. And also a centaur. And some muties had MINIGUNS. I was forced to deal them with the Fatman. I washed my hand a lot after, as I felt impure. Very impure. Frankly, even Talon Company mercs are stronger. The roof of the statesman hotel proved how mooky they are: Reilly's Rangers, a crew of three people, managed to kill about twenty of them. WTF?!

    Enclave also was weakened, too.

    Fallout 2: Enclave had top-of-the-line equipament. No, scratch that, they were the most advanced faction of the world. The BOS looked like cavemen next to the Enclave. They were badasses with energy weapons, gauss guns and Advanced Power Armor. They would't even notice some noob with a Sniper Rifle and Power Armor as he atacked them with his primitive weapons. Fighting them with anything weaker than a Gauss Rifle, Plasma Rifle or Vindicator Minigun was like trying to destroy a concret building with an axe. They were the biggest threat the fallout world had ever seen. They almost killed every non-mutant humanoid in the world.

    Fallout 3: The Enclave is a bunch of lammers with Paper Mache Power Armor that can't take some combat shotgun (SINGLE) shots or some chinese assault rifle bullets without blacking out, permanently. Please tell me that they get stronger as I progress (I did not finish the game yet, so no spoilers please. I'm in the citadel). Also, their laser rifles suck.
     
  2. Leon

    Leon A Smooth-Skin

    680
    Oct 10, 2008
    What?
     
  3. Lhynn

    Lhynn First time out of the vault

    9
    Nov 16, 2008
    actually the enclave wanted to eliminate mutations, so they nearly kill every single mutant in the world.
    but yes, i guess i agree... a few days ago i killed a behemoth with a shotgun, wasn't really a challenge.
    but there is a different balance in fallout 3 as an important % of the dmg comes from your "X guns" skill points.
    when i was low on heavy weapons and had a nearly broken mini gun i could spend like a whole minute hitting a mutie on the face, and he wouldn't even flinch. but then again, with small guns at 100% a mutie falls with a few shots from most weapons.
     
  4. Roflcore

    Roflcore Mildly Dipped

    579
    Nov 2, 2008
    I was able to kill a mutie with a 10mm and smallguns at 25%..
     
  5. Zetsuei

    Zetsuei First time out of the vault

    37
    Oct 10, 2008
    yeah, I'm disappointed when I found a mutie at lvl 5 and shoot him to death with an assault rifle.. I was like "wtf that easy??"
     
  6. Deadman87

    Deadman87 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    182
    Nov 7, 2008
    This game is made to be easy, both gameplaywise and lore wise. And no, the Enclave doesn't get stronger. They will always remain pussies in Fallout 3, until someone comes along and mods the shit out of them.
     
  7. Erny

    Erny It Wandered In From the Wastes

    179
    Nov 2, 2008
    Beth: taking "super" out of the "supermutants"
    They are made into early-mid game enemies (see how little XP you get from them)

    But Enclave... they are quite easy to kill for a high lvl char and you get bunch of xp, its not even funny. They were meant to be tough end-game opposition, but I guess no one at Beth thought of that!
     
  8. Sorrow

    Sorrow So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Feb 9, 2006
    Supermutants in Necropolis were pretty easy to take out - Nightkins were the tough ones.
     
  9. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    I'll admit that FO1 Super Mutants weren't as strong as FO2's Super Mutants (FO2 was a harder game, to tell the truth), but they could still surprise you, specially in the first play though. Harry's Laser Rifle was lethal, it was a strong laser weapon, like a strong laser weapon should be. Those mutants using flamers were also VERY worrysome, I remember being taken out by those nasty often. If you didn't had Combat Armor, man, I swear to god that a unarmed Super Mutant punched me to death once.

    FO2 Super Mutants were much, much more deadly. Remants of the Master's Army. Mention them to Iron Man players. Watch as they go into fetal position and start to whimper. I hate those fucking bastards, I remember few things brought me (and still bring me) more joy than brutally murdering them and salting the ground they walked on. Brutal sonnuvas had it coming. Bastards.
     
  10. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    I killed 5 super muties on level 6, on a high difficult level in FO3.

    In FO2 usually after 2nd turn I was dead, or something like that (on the same level, lower difficult level).

    In FO3 they don't even handle a minigun with one hand!
     
  11. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    That is because the minigun in FO2 was a real minigun. In FO2, being hit by a burst meant instant death. With Combat Armor, it meant that you were going to die in the next turn. Only with Power Armor you could really take it like a man. The Minigun in FO3 seems to be a BB Minigun they gave for kids during christmas. And that's for someone with a Armored Vault Suit. With a Talon Combat Armor, only three miniguns firing at the same time will get your atention.
     
  12. Oddball_E8

    Oddball_E8 First time out of the vault

    58
    Jun 13, 2004
    oooooh but think of all the little kids what would run crying to their mommy if they died everytime someone used the über-cool minigun on them...
    they would have to make it rare, and then the little kiddies couldnt run around going "look at me i roxor your soxor!" :roll:
     
  13. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    Exactly! :D Even in previous Fallouts (with 2D graphics) a minigun looked tougher, kinda badass when you're wearing Enclave's PA (both, monigun and PA are black).

    In FO3 the minigun looks and holds like those ones from Fallout Tactics.
     
  14. Sorrow

    Sorrow So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Feb 9, 2006
    I often got very low damage with miniguns in vanilla Fo/Fo2.

    IMO Enclave in Fo2 was overpowered - I understand energy weapons and APA, but super-soldiers with 200 HP were too much.
     
  15. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    But they were not very numerous, and were only around Navarro and the Oil Rig.
     
  16. Erny

    Erny It Wandered In From the Wastes

    179
    Nov 2, 2008
    They were balanced against a high-level well equipped charachter

    They are hard, but it makes all the levelling up and upgrades and perks worth it. And much more satisfying to kill them.

    When you confront Fo3 enclave for the first time all you feel is dissapointmet - no challenge whatsoever :/
    Maybe they are meant for people who rush the main quest and encounter enclave at lvl 6-8 or smth?

    My fave fight in fo3 was when I ran into a bunch of mutants/brutes at lvl5 and died several times. So I had to use tactics, lay mines and use drugs to defeat them. Because that was challenging.
     
  17. Sorrow

    Sorrow So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Feb 9, 2006
    So?
    Their average grunts were more powerful than Fo1 Mutant Lieutenant.
     
  18. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Well, they DO walk around in super-resistant Advanced Power Armor... besides, if you want to go to that line, the average Robber in Fallout 2 has the same HP of the average Super Mutant grunt in Fallout. And remember Kane had 110 HP, which is the equivalent to two Super Mutants. Fallout 2 combat is harder and feels more challenging, which makes it rewarding to kill off your enemies. I wish Bethesda made Fallout 3 harder, but NOOOOO, "let's make it easy..."
     
  19. Sorrow

    Sorrow So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Feb 9, 2006
    Walking in super-resistant APA is represented by DT and DR of the said armour. 200 HP isn't necessary.

    Also, Fallout 2 had some insane almost instant-kill encounters like the Enclave patrol, which isn't "hard" but poorly balanced.
     
  20. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    ^ Well, you've got to agree though, that it made Enclave look badass, and made you feel like you're going against something very strong. What's the point to make them into whimps?

    Besides, Enclave patrols are quite possible to kill. They kill all your companions, but wth.