Super Mutants

The thing is BOS Man, having the Super Mutants find a new way to reproduce, it being new vats, natural reproduction or cloning is like bringing back an old plot device.

I rather see these lain to rest while focusing on complete new plot devices.

Another reason why I don't want to see Super Mutants in large numbers again is because of earlier mentioned reasons; they have become some stereotype villain in the wasteland that exists for the sole reason to hate and shoot.

I rather see small surviving groups of Super Mutants that are sophisticated and can be talked/bartered with.
And if you do anger them that they are an enemy you don't want to mess with in large numbers, even with military armor and a heavy weapons.
 
if anything I would like them to be more like in Fallou 2. You had a whole village of them living together with ghouls but you could also get attacked by them outside in the wasteland. That way they havnt been simply generic enemies unlike Fallout 3 where they are just another filler.
 
I will back up ol cratchety Joe and say I also play on hard usually, so I am not exactly sure if it was hard or medium but I punched to death 3 SMs with combat shotguns, I had 6 STR and no armor on xD cool huh ?

Well as we all discussed F3 is trampling over the original games' canon so I am not at all surprised, just a game that relies on good graphics and good effects and has holes in the storyline.

Ol cratchety Joe was right about the old age they simply coud have survived till the tie of FNV on the other hand there were extermination missions in F1 and FOT to get rid of the super mutant pest.
 
Not completely Jax Sparrow.

Yes, you had the quest to remove the Super Mutants at the water shed in Necropolis, and the option of killing them at Mariposa Base, and the Cathedral.
But these weren't the majority of them.

In Tactics we again faced a large group of Super Mutants in various missions but after those quests the Mid West BOS could even recruit some Super Mutants so we can assume that there are still plenty left.

Then of course there are the second generation of Super Mutants that were accidentally created during the excavation of Mariposa Base.

Personally with all the losses in FO1, FOT, and FOBOS, I think there should be around a couple of hundreds left, perhaps less, but they are not completely wiped out yet.
 
What I meant, Dutch ghost, was that the majority should be long dead.

Otherwise yes I agree that there should be some left.
 
I don't really care how they ended up NV.

I just want to fear them like I used to in FO2 (I remember killing the muties in BH patrols before anything else on caravan runs).


But from what I saw in the gameplay video from IGN, I don't think they'll be much diferent from FO3...


Oh well... back to the caravan runs near Broken Hills...
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
The thing is BOS Man, having the Super Mutants find a new way to reproduce, it being new vats, natural reproduction or cloning is like bringing back an old plot device.

I rather see these lain to rest while focusing on complete new plot devices.

Another reason why I don't want to see Super Mutants in large numbers again is because of earlier mentioned reasons; they have become some stereotype villain in the wasteland that exists for the sole reason to hate and shoot.

I rather see small surviving groups of Super Mutants that are sophisticated and can be talked/bartered with.
And if you do anger them that they are an enemy you don't want to mess with in large numbers, even with military armor and a heavy weapons.
Click to expand...

what would you have replace them?

I would rather have some variance in ingame enemies, to avoid the oblivion bandit conundrum
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
The thing is BOS Man, having the Super Mutants find a new way to reproduce, it being new vats, natural reproduction or cloning is like bringing back an old plot device.

I rather see these lain to rest while focusing on complete new plot devices.

Another reason why I don't want to see Super Mutants in large numbers again is because of earlier mentioned reasons; they have become some stereotype villain in the wasteland that exists for the sole reason to hate and shoot.

I rather see small surviving groups of Super Mutants that are sophisticated and can be talked/bartered with.
And if you do anger them that they are an enemy you don't want to mess with in large numbers, even with military armor and a heavy weapons.
Click to expand...

what would you have replace them?

I would rather have some variance in ingame enemies, to avoid the oblivion bandit conundrum
 
A good question Allotrope.

Hmm, I am stuck with a complete new enemy, or perhaps the Lobotomites that had been planned for a canceled concept for Fallout 2.

In any case something unique and special.

Perhaps I would also have brought in the "Box" concept from Van Buren's Denver location.

In case riots would break out in Washington DC and the police and the National Guard would not be able to handle it, they would turn on this automated robot manufacturing and control complex that would manufacture and send out Eye bots and a variety of other anti riot robots that are programmed to capture or neutralize any aggressor.

Some time before the start of the game someone scavenger though there was something special inside the Box and made a hole with explosives.
Only this turned the security program on and made it send out loads of patrol robots that are now after everybody.
 
there should be less but they really need to bring up the difficulty on the supermutants way to easy to kill in fallout 3
 
And why Nightkins are using clubs etc? They should be equiped with best energy weapons avaliable for SM!
 
Boy, Lucas you can say that again. I remember the fear which I prevailed in me before every battle with SMs back in tactics.

The last big mission with SMs in tactics, there I left I patch that I didn't carnage, simply because I couldn't until the last missions. Even then i had a hard time fighting them mine fields and a couple of mutants bursting with their browning M2s.

Now those are super mutants not those sorry excuses for SMs in F3

And the nightkins, boy were they challenge. In the cathedral in F1 equipped with a power armour and a winchester I couldn't fight them.
 
Even friendly SMs are dangerous...


Giving Marcus a Bozar is like a luck roll everytime he shots... He'll either wipe out the whole enemy party or YOUR party XD
 
cratchety ol joe said:
To touch on both previous posts, at the revised end of FO3, paladin Tristramcakes, or whatever his name was.. the guy that takes over the pryde for a while... anyway, whatever his name, He says in one of his little conversation pieces (around when he gives you the blood sampler thingy) he says something to the tune of:

"the supermutants are multiplying at an alarming rate..."

What the hairy fuck?! multiplying?! where? how? what the fuck are you on about Paladin Tedious-plot??

This is just shockingly poor game 'cannon' and its clear that the writers of FO3 do not understand the history of the SM...

This may be only a tiny snippet of information, but to me it speaks volumes of what the creators of FO3 see in SM's ... and to simplify my otherwise ranty bit that would normal be here...

Orc's ...

sorry folks had to edit this, due to photo-fuckit, delorting my picure
Click to expand...
Considering how different super mutants are in Fallout 3 in comparison to Fallout 1 and 2, it's probably a good thing they ignored the original cannon rather than built off of it. It's also better if you consider these Super Mutants to be of a different "species."

Fallout 3's Super Mutants originate from Vault 87, which is actually really plausible if you think about it. West Tek and the Vault experiment were both contracted by the Government and thus the Enclave. When seizing all of the FEV prior to the war, it is possible for the Enclave to have an undocumented transfer of some FEV into Vault 87. Considering Vault 87's location, aka nowhere near the rest of the supply, they can avoid the Pearl Harbor syndrome of having all of it in one tightly locked giant target. Most likely, FEV is stored elsewhere in the country as well. After all, the Enclave was a clearly paranoid lot if they considered the idea of leaving the planet a solution.

Anyways, Super mutants in Fallout 3 behave different than Fallout 1 and 2 muties. Gameplay wise, they try to kill everything they see. Story-wise, they're apparently brutally smart. What they'll do is capture people, bring them back to Vault 87, and then use them to create more Super Mutants (Hence, reproducing like rabbits.) Sometimes they'll use people as food too and then throw the leftovers into FEV (hence the creation of Fallout 3's very human Centaurs, which fit the name a bit better than Fallout 1/2's Centaurs). Apparently they're not COMPLETELY dumb, just... in a permanent state of roid rage.

And they're weaker due to gameplay differences I'd say. Bethesda took an awesome rare enemy in Fallout 1/2 and made it a common slaughterfest in Fallout 3. This is true about Raiders too as well as Deathclaws sometimes. It's just simply the fact that they have no idea of how to handle level scaling I'd say, or enemy AI. If they actually made their enemies scale properly, it'd be better. (such as having Super Mutants in certain areas spawn 5 levels above you always or something, but in fewer numbers.)
 
Goddammit, how often do I have to repeat myself and point you to the facts of the original.

After FEV1 was developed it was transferred to the Mariposa base for further refining and mass manufacturing there, and there FEV2 was developed which the Master used to create the Super Mutants.

THERE WERE NO BLOODY FEV RESEARCH AND MASS MANUFACTURING CENTERS ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES!

There is absolutely no point in having some FEV experiment taking place in a Vault as all experiments in these were of a social nature, and not to create super soldiers.

Another thing, why would the Enclave transfer some FEV to a Vault and not to their own headquarters, instead of having to rediscover Mariposa base from old government documents and the nature of the FEV research.

No nemetoad, Vault 87 and its Super Mutants make no sense in Fallout whatsoever.

The super orks were thrown in because Bethesda was obsessed with recycling Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 elements, even if they had to force the concept.
 
Valid points, Dutch Ghost. Valid points. I admit myself wrong and walk away then.

However, I really wouldn't say Vault 87 isn't completely off-base from the original concepts. Probably just another excuse to use FEV though, The midichlorin to all things normally unexplainable in Fallout :P
 
On that I can agree with you, they needed some damn plot device to put the Super Mutants on the East coast without them being connected to the West coast Super Mutants.
 
The trouble is the fact that Fallout has been plagued with cheap plot devices from the beginning. FEV was used to pretty much explain everything in Fallout 1 and continued to play a major role in threats in Fallout 2. Why? Because it's a fictional chemical. Why create three thousand fictional chemicals to explain each and every origin when one works fine to begin with?

And also, they didn't have to design their mutants in Fallout 3 to be similar to Super Mutants and named as such. However, assume they did change say.... skin color and origins enough that they weren't involving FEV but still resulted in a mutated human. How are you going to make that enemy feel like it isn't based off the original concepts in any way? Really, it's hard because the original Super Mutant is so generic. Much like the Brotherhood of Steel has become the generic users of power armor and energy weapons. Sure, you could mix it up a bit and create a new faction that uses similar things, but how could you make it feel "Unique" ?

The biggest example of this is Trogs in the Pitt DLC. Sure, I'm not thrilled they used the name and a very small amount of the design of the Van Buren counterparts. The result though was humans degraded into mindless enemies that have had their skin burned away quite a bit and their minds a bit demented due to radiation. Sounds... strikingly similar to the mindless Ghouls from prior Fallout games. But it was an attempt to be original. It's just... ya know, quite hard when generic roles are already filled.
 
Perhaps the idea of making a generic enemy is sort of outdated.

Do we really need anymore mutant types that are humans devolved into some kind of animalistic state?

The original idea behind it was that is a genuine fear some if not all of us might have, loosing our intelligence, our senses, our awareness of who we are and become nothing than some creature driven by instincts and rage.

The idea behind the Super Mutants would or could have been that they are physically and mentally our superiors; better adapted at the wasteland conditions, more intelligent and perhaps less prone to act on emotion or anything regular human motivation driven.

Of course that was not mostly the case as most Super Mutants were either regular intelligent or somewhat dim witted after the change, but when it turned out right, like the Lieutenant, wow then we are talking about a whole new kind of fear; facing our superiors! (superior as in a being above us humans)

Imagine if all the Super Mutants in Fallout 3 had been like the Lieutenant, instead of Super Orcs, a bunch of very powerful geniuses working together to bring us backwards humans into the light, saddened and perhaps frustrated by the fact of our childish resistance.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Imagine if all the Super Mutants in Fallout 3 had been like the Lieutenant, instead of Super Orcs, a bunch of very powerful geniuses working together to bring us backwards humans into the light, saddened and perhaps frustrated by the fact of our childish resistance.
Click to expand...

While the idea sounds a lot more interesting then generic hate-all Super Mutants that are already present, that would cause more issues in regards to their origin. Fallout 1 and 2 have both established the rarity of an intelligent Super Mutant - Lou and Marcus coming to mind. Frank too, but he was insane - and also established what it takes to make one: An unadulterated human and FEV after modifications by the Master, el super intelligent goo man (With more adjustments by the Enclave, which...still didn't help the brains of Wastelanders-turned-mutants.) In the scenario of Fallout 3, you have adulterated humans due to radiation (Vault 87's door was busted and let radiation in. Everyone inside was to some degree "mutated" prior to experiments) and you also don't have the FEV up to par with the Master changing it. That said, it's actually more appropriate that the Super Mutants in Fallout 3 are both dumb and also different from Fallout 1 and 2.

New Vegas? Most likely we'll still have Generic Jim and the army of hatefest Super Mutants due to AI limitations. Maybe we'll have some smart ones, but who knows? As others have said, they can suffer dementia and most likely most would have it by then.

And also, you have to hand it to Bethesda in one regard. They've released 5 DLCs thus-far and the only one to continue using Super Mutants was Broken Steel, the only DC-area only addon. Either they realise the mutants shouldn't exist everywhere or they didn't care for their creation as much either D:
 
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