welsh said:
Honestly, I don't care if the Korean missile can't hit crap.
I do care that the Koreans do have nuclear weapons.
If the North Koreans were to launch they could hit a target in Alaska or Europe, fine. Future generations of missiles will be more accurate. You may doubt that, but then people were saying tha the North Koreans were going to build the bomb, then short-range missiles, than long range missiles.
Not if they are using SCUD technology, which is really laughable in expecting the guidance to go past 1Kkm. Old Russian surplus is ALL KIM CAN REALLY AFFORD.
And while Europe might not be taking the US concerns about North Korean missile seriously, fuck them. Europe had its own missiles and atomic weapons during the Cold War so it also had the ability to deter aggression.
Euro armaments, compared to Soviet Union, were pathetic in number and as I pointed out before, only served to have the other side aim more nukes at the country. Deter aggression, my ass. Most of those sites were on a procedural system to launch if the US did, and really not much else in stand-alone orders.
That the Europeans would prefer not to worry about what happens in Asia is fine. It's not there sphere of influence and if Europe would prefer to hide its head in the sand because it lacks the capacity for imperial ambitions, fine.
That, and the Euros are already living with the effects and other bullshit the US has recently caused/stirred up, again, like Afghanistan in the 80's. There's a huge pond between the US and the other side of the world and somehow that seems to fuck up with the US' perception, or the US simply doesn't care
because "it's all happening on the other side of the pond".
And I also agree that W is a prick and has really fucked up the North Korean situation.
Understatement of the year.
So fuck North Korea. They want to develop nuclear armed missiles, let's just say that's provocation.
Ah, just like the US' manufacture of weapons are "provocation" as well? Funny how the US seems to think they're the only ones who should have anything.
We can argue that the Korean War never really ended- there was no real peace treaty. Sooner or later the North Koreans are going to provoke something or do something stupid- another assassination effort in Burma, the tunneling of commandos into South Korea.
THAT would be provocation. Development of weapons, aside from those specifically banned, is not provocation. And if banned weapons are the problem, there's routes for that.
Nuke them now and get it over with. You can threaten to nuke them now and then follow it up. Send a message- do not play a nuclear game unless you are willing to pay the price. Let the North Koreans and everyone else remember that this is a serious and bloody business.
Amusing that people have this idea when there isn't a few hundred nukes pointed back. Kim is trying to overextend the range of a SCUD guidance system by over 6x times to *just* make it to Hawaii, and Hawaii is a few thousand kilometers from the US, and so that justifies severe NK civilian casualties.
And yeah, so what the US nuked Japan. They deserved it. I think the US should have dropped every bomb they had until the Japanese surrendered. I feel no guilt for that at all.
How about this? For those that don't want to cross legally, pay taxes, do their fair part of living in this country, and for the source government's actions in aiding these illegals in crossing to invade the US, we should simply nuke Mexico? Hey, they deserved it, as the actions of a few in power turned the civilians meaningless, and you just fell into the trap Hitler was trying to get the Allies to play regularly - reciprocal actions that would kill many innocents. In some cases, the US did, and it wasn't just because of Germany that the Geneva Conventions were expanded upon. Then, when the reciprocal actions are taken and kill loved ones, that breeds up a whole new generation anti-US, and it's just like the new generation of Taliban from Afghanistan, who grew up in the US-sponsored parking lots, and you've now just bred some fanatics bent on destroying you no matter what.
And your shitty handling of the situation just bred a likely cause of why your boy comes home in a box when the next inbred cowboy of a President decides to wage a war for war profiteers on the excuse of those fanatics. Versus...doing the job right, like in certain parts of WWII, that make the US look noble for coming to the aid of those the aggressors were attacking. Now the US are the aggressors, and not surprisingly Kim would be a little nervous and try to form up some deterrance, no matter how laughable it is, or he knows that if there was a financial excuse, W would be all over NK.
Plus, there's a reason why we can't easily nuke NK. The fallout wouldn't be that kind to Japan or China.
Are the Russians going to risk nuclear oblivion for North Korea? Are the Chinese? Probably not. Those regimes have too much self-interest. Counting on them for partnership and support is just a waste of time, and looking for support from the Europeans is not going to help.
Yet if the US goes back to that whole "killing of innocents" thing, who is the worst country in the world's eyes? A selfish tinpot king that looks out for his interests at the expense of his country's welfare, and who is mildly antagonistic at best in the scope of the world right now, and who *might* someday get the ability to use nukes and *might* someday get a missile to travel halfway around the world on antiquidated Soviet technology - careful, if aimed towards a large land mass, it could actually hit land!; or an oil baron who decides to attack countries at whim and without regard to any form of protocol, has already re-fucked Aghanistan into another generation of fanatics ready to stir this shit up again in about decade or two, fucked up Iraq, ALREADY sends missiles into uninvolved countries as FAILED assassination attempts without any form of diplomacy while killing innocents, who wages a war that gets many of his own countrymen killed over numerous lies for the sake of personal profit for his VP and cabinet, and who already has nukes.
The US wouldn't have a shred of the "good-guy" image left anymore.
Don't play to European sense of moral ethics. The Europeans have their own national interests. They are not the ones at risk, the US is. The Europeans want to hide their head in the sand and play the morally superior game, fine.
I really don't see why the Euros should have to deal with any more short-sightedness and selfishness of the US. So really, why the hell should Europe care when the US makes a mess and has to deal with it? The selfishness is extremely evident when it seems the Euros are EXPECTED to care and follow along with the US in its selfish desires, no matter what it means to their home country. Again, this is an issue that has been going on since the Cold War, has never improved, and in fact has gotten far worse under Dubya.
In fact, the US STILL owes Europe aid for dealing with the long-term effects of the operations in the 80s (but never will), and Afghanistan is still a mess.
So really, why should normal people come to the aid of a really stupid kid that keeps whacking on a bee hive with a stick?
Let the North Koreans know that they are due to feel the hot end of a nuclear exchange.
Well, it's great that innocents mean something to you. And here you were getting upset at my idea of using those illegally invading the US as target practice, who are by nature not just committing a crime, but are invading a country
en masse.
Funny how the scope of consideration changes when it's about something you care for, hm? Now put yourself in the shoes of the Euros. They've had to deal with the US' shit for decades, and that was with the US being kind and friendly to them, if the US couldn't bother to be wholly supportive in turn. Now the US is acting like a spoiled child, and for once the Euros can sit back and take a breather, as the US hasn't ever really given a fuck about the IRA or anything else the Euros had to deal with - unless it involved US interests.
So what else do you expect?
To win at nuclear diplomacy, one must be willing to go all the way or at least convince your opponent that you will.
Kim's a whacko, the regime is corrupt, the people suffer famine for his ambitions and now the guys is developing a posture to launch attacks outside his region. He's a drama whore. Time to slap him down and shut him up, once and for all.
And nuke those poor hungry people so you don't have to worry about sending them a token crate or two of Pop-Tarts and Twinkies, as if being malnourished while eating junk food is supposed to help them like the people in Afghanistan.
Nukeular (using the Dubya spelling) weapons have only one clear target. Civilians.
