Terrorist attack on French satirical magazine

[Crni Vuk]

yes because apparently lunatics exist everywhere.

 

[Akratus]

Open up the Quran, read about what it says what one should do to infidels, and then come back to me and say again that mentioning the mere idea of violence inherent in islam is so wrong.

A religion is a lot more than its text -- a text which is full of contradictions and open to interpretation. This is a mistake the New Atheists make all the damn time.

If I had said: "I only need the quran to know islam has a problem with violence" you might have a point.

 

[Cyberfiend]

:'(

The text at the top writes: "Cabu, Wolinski, Tignous, Charb. A stupid and evil death."

God says: "Cabu? For once you're early."

 

[Hassknecht]

Could you translate that for us non-french speaking people?

 

[Cyberfiend]

Could you translate that for us non-french speaking people?

Absolutely! Sorry about that. I'll edit it now. If anyone wants anything translated, just let me know.

 

[MutantScalper]

I'm not entirely sure Cabu and those other guys would enjoy being drawn as going to a Christian heaven. You see I'm not sure they were that religious themselves.

 

[Cyberfiend]

On twitter now. A bunch of cartoonists around the word are posting their reactions and tributes. I'm going to add them all under the cut. I'll keep adding to this post as time goes on.

Spoiler

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

This, right here, is the attitude problem.

Attitudes, discourse and satirical cartoons aren't the problem at all. It's violent suppression of free speech.

If we're not free to blaspheme religion, what's the fucking point?

 

[Akratus]

https://twitter.com/Akratus_/status/552856142893043712

This, right here, is the attitude problem.

Attitudes, discourse and satirical cartoons aren't the problem at all. It's violent suppression of free speech.

If we're not free to blaspheme religion, what's the fucking point?

I would give this a 100 rads if I could.

 

[Sander]

For those inclined to speak of Muslims not understanding satire, it is used to mock extremists in Islamic countries, too. http://m.theglobeandmail.com/globe-...st-extremists/article22331032/?service=mobile

If I had said: "I only need the quran to know islam has a problem with violence" you might have a point.

You used "look at the text" as the only argument to call Islam an inherently violent religion. This is exactly the rhetoric used by many islamophobes. It is also hilariously wrong: there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, and almost all of them live peaceful lives. Islam is not inherently anything, it is what its practicioners make it.

I'm going to just keep repeating this because it is important: whoever did this, they are extremist who do not represent a religion, and are repudiated by almost all Muslims.

 

[No Man]

Rads, because you've just shown what may well be the worst pun in history. Great atrwork though. Dem MS Paint skillz, big time.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Yes, but you know how that goes Sander.

A person like Brevik is an individual and not to be exemplary for the mindset of all right wing nut-jobs out there.

A suicide bomber shouting Allahu Akbar though stands for his religion as whole.


- it is also a real tragedy that those cartoonists have been killed. The really sad thing is though that many people will exploit this situation again for their propaganda and agenda.

 

[1fps-warlock]

And when you mock their religion or call it into question, they don't go about calling you 'christophobe' or 'judeophobe' ad nauseam.

I doubt you've actually criticised for example Christianity to the faces of strict Christians. Unfortunately I have met such folks and they will attack you even without you criticising them.

You somehow missed the fact that there are no "christian extremists" for more than 700 years.
According to the wiki, Pope Clement V disbanded the Order in 1312.

 

[Akratus]

If I had said: "I only need the quran to know islam has a problem with violence" you might have a point.

You used "look at the text" as the only argument to call Islam an inherently violent religion.

I guess reading is hard. And being willfully ignorant is fun!

Yes, but you know how that goes Sander.

A person like Brevik is an individual and not to be exemplary for the mindset of all right wing nut-jobs out there.

A suicide bomber shouting Allahu Akbar though stands for his religion as whole.

Of course they don't. Because it's not the religion of islam I am criticising, and Anders Breivik was more of a fascist psychopath than a right wing nutjob.

You used "look at the text" as the only argument to call Islam an inherently violent religion. This is exactly the rhetoric used by many islamophobes. It is also hilariously wrong: there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, and almost all of them live peaceful lives. Islam is not inherently anything, it is what its practicioners make it.

I'm going to just keep repeating this because it is important: whoever did this, they are extremist who do not represent a religion, and are repudiated by almost all Muslims.

The funny thing is: you're right. But the entire religion is not being criticized. The violent content of their writings, and the masses that condone and spread those messages are the problem. Do you see buddhists commiting suicide attacks in Tibet? Whilst they too have been opressed, and suffered under military occupation and many other terrible things.

You can't make a strawmen like that and pretend you're refuting anything. When violent, extremist islam culture exists it's not a shield for criticism when most islam people are peaceful or how the religion as a whole isn't entirely violent or extreme.

This very debate has been had already, by the way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vln9D81eO60

Another thing: Where do you think the repression of non-believers and women in a great amount of muslim countries originates from?

 

[Hassknecht]

I like how there's basically exactly the same arguments in the Gamergate thread being made
"Don't judge a group of people by their extremists!" -"But the masses condone evil stuff!" -"But it's not what they believe in!" -"But we need to criticise them!"

 

[Crni Vuk]

But you can and should criticise the islam, just as any crazy right-wing group.

The issue but I can only talk about Germany is the imbalance. See our crazy neo-nazis kill people for years, decades now, probably more then 200 since 1990. But, no one seems to be really upset about it. Or that we should maybe start to talk about this as it is really methodical, see there are whole lawyer's offices dedicated to defending Neo-Nazis in curt.

But than of course one Salafi follower stabs a policeofficers, which is horrobile and its all over the islam again how dangerous it is to the west and we have to talk about it and discuss this and that about it and should we do something and how is our stance on immigration and that shanebambe.

And it simply stinks. It's tiresome. Formulaic. Doesnt help the victims. And totally silly.

Yet, people buy in to it.

No one will argue about the fact that extremists should be punished and watched or that we should not talk about the Islam and its role in Europe. But please, let us be at least equal here. A few 100 Salafi are more dangerous then thousands of Neo-Nazi groups of which some are big enough to controll already whole towns/areas? Literaly. Com on.

I like how there's basically exactly the same arguments in the Gamergate thread being made

"Don't judge a group of people by their extremists!" -"But the masses condone evil stuff!" -"But it's not what they believe in!" -"But we need to criticise them!"

Yeah, but at least this is a topic worth to talk about. And I guess the Islam is a tad more complex than GamerGate

Let us be at least happy that Sander hasn't brought up Feminism into it. Yet

 

[TheWesDude]

are there pictures of IRA attacks with bible verses or mottos spray painted or something?

when the IRA was attacking the british were they shouting religious epitaphs?

i am genuinely curious as i do not recall seeing that.

and from what i understand the order for those sweedish things

unknown people firebombed empty mosques
unknown people firebombed christian churches and jewish synogouges when people were present

i object to any building being firebombed for any reason. of course i know that should go without saying but you never know what kind of argument will get thrown out there.

my issue with immigration was that you have to do it slow enough so people have time to acclimatize to their new "culture" because if you dont, you get immigration without assimilation.

-EDIT-

the title should be corrected.

4 satirists
6 misc staff
2 cops

 

[Akratus]

Sorry, don't have the privilege of editing the title. Could a mod change it to something like: "Murder of french satire magazine staff"?

 

[No Man]

Or 'No one expects the Mutant Inquisition!'? If it's going to end up as a jab at the opposing side, at least make it a classy one.

 

[Nas92]

my issue with immigration was that you have to do it slow enough so people have time to acclimatize to their new "culture" because if you dont, you get immigration without assimilation.

Today's tolerant view does not allow room for assimilation, which I find extremely strange. How the hell are you gonna live next to people who are so blind that they think their way of life must apply everywhere they go and everyone should play by their rules? These people need to get a good hard wake up call, but then you'd have a few well-intentioned fools crying about how they're people too.
This is not a muslim problem, this is about every single problematic minority group. They don't even have to be immigrants, gypsies are rarely immigrants and they are one of the biggest, most problematic people ever. But that's another topic entirely.