The aspect of Fallout 3 that i liked better then New Vegas

daemonofdecay said:
The Enclave 86 said:
Surf Solar said:
Yes, when it comes to the "creating a certain atmosphere", Fallout 3 really wasn't that bad. It was just not a good Roleplaying game, or Fallout game. If they'd have cut out all Fallout references and put more effort into the writing/RPG mechanics it would've been a very decent game, atleast for me.

I know right? I mean seriously, wouldn't it have been cheaper just to make an original title? Was the Fallout fanbase really that big as to justify all the licencing costs; especially when the game was made to appeal to Oblivion's fanbase - as I was apart of at the time - ?

Well one must also consider that there most likely were fans of Fallout 1/2 who did enjoy FO3. I know I was one of them myself. But then because my first Fallout experience was with Tactics back in Middle School and thus I was exposed to "lesser" Fallout games early on, perhaps I'm not such a purist. But I digress.

As Crni Vuk says, the Fallout franchise is one of those names that most gamers will have heard of even if they have never even seen or played the games. Look at pen and paper RPGs: everyone has heard of Dungeons & Dragons, even if they have never seen a rulebook or a game in progress.

Name recognition sells.
I think the whole "turn-based isometric" thing worked for FO1/2/Tactics and Bethesda decided that the only way to revive a franchise is to change the gameplay completely, change the location and improve on many aspects, such as the Repair, Medicine and Science skills. The new combat system still isn't perfect, but has its own merits. I personally much, much prefer it.

The only thing that annoyed me about the old turn-based system minus the length of each fight that made every encounter a chore, had to be a bug. A bug that affects a core gameplay element is a pretty big one. I'm talking about the one that lets enemies sequence more than once. It doesn't make the game more "interesting", just frustrating. Not to mention, what's with not being able to load a game in the middle of an enemy's turn? Goddamnit.

New Vegas polished on FO3's combat system further and made it better, minus being unable to make targeted attacks with melee and unarmed (godDAMNIT). They also made it so that you couldn't EASILY max out every skill and even then, you need 10 INT and all four DLCs. In Fallout 2, it took time but you could bring almost every skill (minus convenience skills or utterly useless ones) to a good level and tagged skills at 150% so by level 40 so you ended up with a pretty powerful character anyway.

The writing in Skyrim is supposed to be better so I actually have high hopes for FO4. It won't compare to NV on writing but if Bethesda learn from their mistakes, it will be a pretty good game. It won't stop fans from BAAAWWWING because they just want another Fallout 2. Well, that's gone and done now. Bethesda now have the rights and they can do what they want with it. Get the hell used to it.
 
JohnBrowning said:
What about the Enclave and their "master plan" to send off the occupants of the Vaults to colonize the moon. You mean, the ones they killed off in totally pointless social experiments? Oops. The only thing that makes FO3's story worse is that they COPIED a bad idea.

About everything else, I will not argue.
About this, man, you should pay more attention when you play.
Do you realize that idea is the vicepresident's only? The same vicepresident the game actually stands that is not very smart or sane? What about a crazy and idiotic man who had stupid ideas? Aren't the wasteland nor the Enclave allowed to have idiots inside?
Talk to the president and you will realize the idea is very different.
 
Oppen said:
About everything else, I will not argue.
About this, man, you should pay more attention when you play.
Do you realize that idea is the vicepresident's only? The same vicepresident the game actually stands that is not very smart or sane? What about a crazy and idiotic man who had stupid ideas? Aren't the wasteland nor the Enclave allowed to have idiots inside?
Talk to the president and you will realize the idea is very different.
Oh, you mean the changed plan to just wipe out all the "mutants" and start afresh? Then yeah, you're right. I got that wrong. I know Richardson didn't want to go ahead with it.

But the plan is still massively flawed and many of the scientists protested. I don't why he didn't consider the fact that slight mutation was going to be a standard thing to bear if you want to live out in the open rather than remain in bunkers. Dominating the wasteland in its current state rather than just wiping everything out would have been a more sensical move. The fact is that people ARE managing, so how is destroying them a necessary evil?

Regardless of how bad the story is, Fallout 2 got many things right and thanks to its awesome karma system and consequences for your actions. It's slowly rising up on my Favourite Games rank, even above 3 as the novelty has worn off. I just think it deserves as much criticism as FO3.
 
What about the Enclave and their "master plan" to send off the occupants of the Vaults to colonize the moon. You mean, the ones they killed off in totally pointless social experiments? Oops.

I thought that the plan was for the Enclave itself to go to the moon, and the vaults experiments were meant to collect data for that purpose. :?

I also love how many like to point out that you could purify water with a dirt filter. Those people fail to realise that dirt ain't gonna do much to radioactive particles which remain and could well kill a person. Uh, do your research?

"Filtering through earth removes essentially all of the fallout particles and more of the dissolved radioactive material than does boiling-water distillation, a generally impractical purification method that does not eliminate dangerous radioactive iodines. Earth filters are also more effective in removing radioactive iodines than are ordinary ion-exchange water softeners or charcoal filters. In areas of heavy fallout, about 99% of the radioactivity in water could be removed by filtering it through ordinary earth."

A lot of the turmoil IS explained by the Talon Company who's ultimate goal is to keep DC in that state. I'll go back to this later.

I must have missed it. Where it was said and why they would do that?

I don't why he didn't consider the fact that slight mutation was going to be a standard thing to bear if you want to live out in the open rather than remain in bunkers.

Because it was just an excuse, obviously.
 
JohnBrowning said:
Oppen said:
About everything else, I will not argue.
About this, man, you should pay more attention when you play.
Do you realize that idea is the vicepresident's only? The same vicepresident the game actually stands that is not very smart or sane? What about a crazy and idiotic man who had stupid ideas? Aren't the wasteland nor the Enclave allowed to have idiots inside?
Talk to the president and you will realize the idea is very different.
Oh, you mean the changed plan to just wipe out all the "mutants" and start afresh? Then yeah, you're right. I got that wrong. I know Richardson didn't want to go ahead with it.

But the plan is still massively flawed and many of the scientists protested. I don't why he didn't consider the fact that slight mutation was going to be a standard thing to bear if you want to live out in the open rather than remain in bunkers. Dominating the wasteland in its current state rather than just wiping everything out would have been a more sensical move. The fact is that people ARE managing, so how is destroying them a necessary evil?

Regardless of how bad the story is, Fallout 2 got many things right and thanks to its awesome karma system and consequences for your actions. It's slowly rising up on my Favourite Games rank, even above 3 as the novelty has worn off. I just think it deserves as much criticism as FO3.
As I said, I don't think you're wrong in anything but the thing I pointed out. The plan is just to commit genocide because they think they're superior, and because they want to rule easy. It's not as silly as a plot if you consider people tried similar things through history.
 
The writing in Skyrim is supposed to be better so I actually have high hopes for FO4. It won't compare to NV on writing but if Bethesda learn from their mistakes, it will be a pretty good game. It won't stop fans from BAAAWWWING because they just want another Fallout 2. Well, that's gone and done now. Bethesda now have the rights and they can do what they want with it. Get the hell used to it.

The consensus, even among many Elder Scrolls fans, is that Skyrim is generally better than Oblvion, but may not be as good as Morrowind. This does not mean Skyim's "good" writing, just that it's better than Oblivion. I could go on about the plot holes and inconsistencies in Skyrim myself. We are talking about Elder Scrolls, afterall, which has a long history of being inconsistent and oftentimes contradictory.

And a final note, just because Bethesda owns the franchise now doesn't mean that someone won't complain about it. It's their opinion, and they can say what they want. Get used to that.

Regardless of how bad the story is, Fallout 2 got many things right and thanks to its awesome karma system and consequences for your actions. It's slowly rising up on my Favourite Games rank, even above 3 as the novelty has worn off. I just think it deserves as much criticism as FO3.

All works must be subject to criticism. Fallout 2 is no exception, but this is also why Fallout 2 holds up better than 3. In criticism, one also has to apply critical thinking in several different ways, other than just form or function.

On a constructive level, Fallout 2 supported even it's bad ideas within the context of the game. For example, there's a clear infrastructure even to Arroyo, despite the idea, as you say, that tribals don't really make sense in context with the time period - there's at least a reason and explanation. The game actually explains why even the bad ideas are there.

In Fallout 3, you tend to have to make up reasons yourself. Like your explanation for Talon Company, which isn't really supported by anything in-game.

There really isn't much of an excuse for Talon Company except to be as karmic foes. They were pretty much purposefully made ambiguous just as more cannon fodder to fight. It's right up there with just about everything that Daniel Littlehorn says and does.

It's even very likely that Littlehorn is the go-between for Talon Company and whomever this supposed malignant force trying to keep the Wasteland down.

That, however, doesn't answer who they work for? Littlehorn and Talon Company both say the same thing, but you never hear or are told anything beyond the "good people need to die" bit.

"What if" it's the Enclave? Perhaps the Enclave use Talon Company as a third party "wasteland disposal unit", in need of warm bodies to eliminate the "do-gooders" who interfere with their plans without risking themselves

Then again, "what if" it's the Slavers? Remember, if you're the kind of guy running around giving water to the downtrodden and having Three Dog sing your praises over the radio, then word will spread. That's exactly the kind of legend the Slavers can't have inspiring their captives, that's why they are so big on eradicating the memory of Abraham Lincoln.

The big problem is that these are "What ifs" and there's no deeper investigation allowed. The same "What if" scenarios have to be represented for a great number of other inconsistencies in Fallout 3.

As far as I can tell, Talon Company and the Regulators are pretty much an attempt to mirror the rivalry between the Rangers and the Slavers, as seen in Fallout 2. The problem is that it doesn't go into more detail than that relationship, but there is often more play to even a simple rivalry like that in Fallout 2.
 
Back
Top