The aspect of Fallout 3 that i liked better then New Vegas
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The Enclave 86
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
I appologise if I was a little rude old sport, a lot of people on other forums are pretty anti-House for reasons easily disproven; I too like the guy, shame I can't help him. I see what you mean, rhetoric perhaps but launch capabilites are close-by and House does definately have technologically progressive ambitions.
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
I don't think that there's any coming out of that stasis chamber, IIRC that helmet is connected directly to his brain like a Robobrain that allows him control over all of his systems; we can see that 200 year old rockets can take off and land again successfully but the level of surgury must surely be centuries away until the specialist equipment - surely made for that sole purpose - can be made again.
I know he's a control freak but the guy is clever, logical and methodical; he would need to be President Eden levels of deluded to do it all for some for power/ego trip.
Wintermind
Vault Senior Citizen
I'm pretty sure the immediate risk of removing him from his little chamber, never mind bed/slab, is him dying from an infection that his body has no capability of fighting off.
Secondly, he's like over two hundred years old. Anybody else in the wasteland that old that isn't a mutant?
Secondly, he's like over two hundred years old. Anybody else in the wasteland that old that isn't a mutant?
daemonofdecay
First time out of the vault
Really, the only thing I truly liked more in FO3 was the setting (in loose terms). I liked the more destroyed and post-apocalyptic grimdark look and feel of many of the locations. Even those that weren't (Lamplight...) were still very visually interesting (even when the "cities" were "populated" by half a dozen people).
FNV, for all its progress, still leaves us with a pretty drab and unexciting environment. It has more content to be sure, but the DC ruins were more visually interesting than a vast majority of New Vegas.
FNV, for all its progress, still leaves us with a pretty drab and unexciting environment. It has more content to be sure, but the DC ruins were more visually interesting than a vast majority of New Vegas.
UnidentifiedFlyingTard
Vault Fossil
Its just too bad F3's world design made no sense whatsoever.
daemonofdecay
First time out of the vault
UnidentifiedFlyingTard said:
True, but then I guess I see it as being in the same vein as the AT-ATs from Star Wars: they might have tried to provide some weak "logic" for their design years after the movies came out, but the real reason they were there was because they were visually striking (aka "cool") machines.
FO3 was not dissimilar: you could try and craft some weak "logic" to explain many of the design choices for the way the world was set up, but the simple reasoning often had to do simply with things being interesting (aka "cool") to look at and facilitating gameplay.
Thus why Megaton is right outside a Vault, yet not really aware of its presence after a couple of centuries: it was there to allow the player to arrive in town relatively quickly, and provide a distant landmark for the player to move towards. Logical? Hardly. But when you first came out into the bright light and saw it on the horizon, it most certainly was interesting visually.
This doesn't excuse poor design choices, of course, but in my eyes the fact that FO3 had "settlements" (a difficult word to use for two buildings with three people) with a lack of logic behind their placement and design was a negligible fault of the game. Indeed, it never once gave me any grief while playing.
The faults of FO3 that bothered me were in the areas of writing and problems with the game engine itself: nothing like simplistic choices and glitchy animations to break any sense of immersion. But the fact that most of the settlements had no means of feeding themselves? It truly wasn't an issue for me. FNV tried to provide some of that missing logic to the game, which is both admirable and something I can appreciate, but often it was disappointing in practice. Just look at the pathetic size and state of the NCR sharecroppers farm.
New Vegas was a better game in my eyes overall, but there was still something very great about the feeling and setting of FO3. Logical? Hardly. Yet like the first time I saw those monstrous quadrupedal machines marching across the matte painted snows of Hoth, the illogical nature was of little concern initially.
Nowadays FO3's lack of reasoning behind the placement and design of settlements and locations can be a bit of annoyance, especially when compared against FNV, but the visual design and striking character of the capital wasteland were still greater than FNV's drab, rustic world. FNV is more logical, more believable, but its just not as visually interesting.
Despite its (many) faults, the visual appeal of FO3 is where it beats FNV. I've lived in the desert and it looks pretty much like FNV: brown and boring. FO3, in comparison was new and different: it was a new experience to go traipsing through a ruined city at will, simple exploring because I wanted to explore. Both games suffered from the use of color filters, but despite FO3's use of that hideous green it still came off as more appealing to the eyes.
So for those of you keeping track of the scores its FO3 with 1 point, to FNV's 968.
Wintermind
Vault Senior Citizen
So wait grey and washed out green is an acceptable substitute for colors? Shocking!
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I never had any problem with the green (FO3) or orange (NV) filters. I understand that it's a measure somewhat limiting the color palette to receive some certain atmosphere. Not sure what's so bad about it.
The Enclave 86
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Surf Solar said:
Same, if a place is supposed to be after a nuclear war - maybe not 200 years but I digress - then I have no problem with it being a littloe rundown and grey; it's part of the territory.
To be honest, I liked those color filters. Especially in New Vegas.
Green around high radiation area (that town full of ghouls), or dark orange, almost red (Forlorn Hope) and so on.
Also in 3, I didn't really mind that greenish-grey filter. It was okay. Many people would disagree, but I personally liked the design of some part of the D.C. area, and that filter was really good for it.
Green around high radiation area (that town full of ghouls), or dark orange, almost red (Forlorn Hope) and so on.
Also in 3, I didn't really mind that greenish-grey filter. It was okay. Many people would disagree, but I personally liked the design of some part of the D.C. area, and that filter was really good for it.
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Yes, when it comes to the "creating a certain atmosphere", Fallout 3 really wasn't that bad. It was just not a good Roleplaying game, or Fallout game. If they'd have cut out all Fallout references and put more effort into the writing/RPG mechanics it would've been a very decent game, atleast for me.
The Enclave 86
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Surf Solar said:
I know right? I mean seriously, wouldn't it have been cheaper just to make an original title? Was the Fallout fanbase really that big as to justify all the licencing costs; especially when the game was made to appeal to Oblivion's fanbase - as I was apart of at the time - ?
it is not so much about the fanbase but the name and creative work.
The franchise has proved it self and is a very popular name among gamers - even if people never played Fallout but they have at least read about it once probably. It is very easy to go for it from a marketing point of view.
To get a completely new franchise is a very time consuming creative process. Not just because of sketches and working on a frame for the world but think about all the details. And then you have the risk that the franchise might not be succesful.
The franchise has proved it self and is a very popular name among gamers - even if people never played Fallout but they have at least read about it once probably. It is very easy to go for it from a marketing point of view.
To get a completely new franchise is a very time consuming creative process. Not just because of sketches and working on a frame for the world but think about all the details. And then you have the risk that the franchise might not be succesful.
daemonofdecay
First time out of the vault
The Enclave 86 said:
Well one must also consider that there most likely were fans of Fallout 1/2 who did enjoy FO3. I know I was one of them myself. But then because my first Fallout experience was with Tactics back in Middle School and thus I was exposed to "lesser" Fallout games early on, perhaps I'm not such a purist. But I digress.
As Crni Vuk says, the Fallout franchise is one of those names that most gamers will have heard of even if they have never even seen or played the games. Look at pen and paper RPGs: everyone has heard of Dungeons & Dragons, even if they have never seen a rulebook or a game in progress.
Name recognition sells.
The Enclave 86
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
daemonofdecay said:
I'm kind of odd in this regard, if I may say so, only heard of Fallout because of Fallout 3 but bought, played and loved Fallout 2 before Fallout 3 then hit the shelves.
ramessesjones
It Wandered In From the Wastes
As retarded as Fallout 3 is at certain points, I did mostly like it for a short term distraction. There was a certain charm to running the Mall wearing Power Armor and Abraham Lincoln's Hat and just killing whatever mindless bullet sponge came my way and the amount of pointless caves, tunnels and buildings with things to kill was really impressive. Also, the game art was good, even if it was illogical at times or clashed with reality (hate that metal frame in the Washington Monument so hard!).
Despite its stupidity though, I liked Fallout better than the vast majority of games on the market, although I greatly prefer New Vegas, Fallout and Fallout 2 by leaps and bounds, as they are much more mentally engaging, but to be fair Fallout 3 doesn't even try to do that, so its really an apples and oranges comparison.
Despite its stupidity though, I liked Fallout better than the vast majority of games on the market, although I greatly prefer New Vegas, Fallout and Fallout 2 by leaps and bounds, as they are much more mentally engaging, but to be fair Fallout 3 doesn't even try to do that, so its really an apples and oranges comparison.
Wintermind
Vault Senior Citizen
I only ever noticed the filter in Searchlight and thought that was dumb as hell. If there's a constant filter color it's subtle and I haven't noticed it.
And my point was that everything FO3 was pretty much either grey or some color horrible twisted by the ugly green-yellow tint they applied to everything. It had less variance in color than Gears of War, which atleast spices it up a bit with some fire or blood.
And my point was that everything FO3 was pretty much either grey or some color horrible twisted by the ugly green-yellow tint they applied to everything. It had less variance in color than Gears of War, which atleast spices it up a bit with some fire or blood.
James Snowscoran
Still Mildly Glowing
The filter is more subtle in NV (it's not green) but it's still there.
Big image:
[spoiler:56142cf5fd]
[/spoiler:56142cf5fd]
Big image:
[spoiler:56142cf5fd]
JohnBrowning
First time out of the vault
Okay, I'm going to rant here, but before I do that, I will say this: the writing in Fallout 3 is awful. There is just no debating that.
But what really irks me is when many compare FO3's story and compare it to FO2's story. Because - and yes, I really mean it - FO2's story is utterly stupid and nonsensical. The mere existence of tribals is a low point and it's beyond me how, after that amount of time after the war and with access to traders the village or Arroyo is in an utterly backward state. They could have passed the technological know-how of the Vault Dweller and the functionality of technological devices down the generations but instead chose to worship him and these devices as mere artifacts, abandoning technology for tribal spirituality. And now they're dying out because of the nonsensical and pointless devolution?! Surprise. Don't get me started on Now Reno and the talking deathclaws either!
What about the Enclave and their "master plan" to send off the occupants of the Vaults to colonize the moon. You mean, the ones they killed off in totally pointless social experiments? Oops. The only thing that makes FO3's story worse is that they COPIED a bad idea.
I also love how many like to point out that you could purify water with a dirt filter. Those people fail to realise that dirt ain't gonna do much to radioactive particles which remain and could well kill a person. Uh, do your research?
As for communities that aren't very self-sustaining? Well, yeah. They do make little sense. The addition of hunters and scavengers would have been good. Actual farming would have been a nice addition. A lot of the turmoil IS explained by the Talon Company who's ultimate goal is to keep DC in that state. I'll go back to this later.
Don't get me started on the radiation too. DC wasn't hit enough to completely destroy the Washington penis, so why do you get irradiated by the water when you're just standing next to it after 200 years? Why is the entrance to Vault 87 irradiated at all?
Myself and many smart people love Fallout 3's world depth. That alone is fascinating and if you don't play the game several times in a row and leave a year between each playthrough, it never gets boring. The immense detail is enough to make the game good, but not great. NV is definitely better.
It's a real shame about the writing. You know what would improve Fallout 3?
Make Super Mutants fewer and far between, just another group from the West fighting for a bit of DC and get rid of them from Vault 87 alongside the mere existence of FEV in the East Coast. Make the Talon Company the main foe, keeping the other enemies.
Make the Outcasts the true BoS and rename the BoS, only giving PA to the highest ranking soldiers and make them less... Brotherhood like. They can remain altruistic but now have a more practical means to gain control. They can still originate from the BoS and that civil war could still occur.
Get rid of the Enclave and replace them with a group that formed from a few survivors of the old group who moved East, gaining new recruits, stumbling upon DC and deciding to make use of the purifier as a means of control, NOT genocide. Make them perform questionable actions that would put DC in a progressive direction but make power their ultimate goal, not altruism. Make is so when they intercept you at Vault 87 and choose you to give the real code, you set aside the events and a new questline where you take their side. Why shoot someone for helping you? Make it so that they are harsh and ruthless but their plan isn't STUPID.
Remember what I said about the Talon Mercs? Their employer is unknown. But what if their employer was the New Enclave who hired them to keep the DC in turmoil and make the New Elcnalve appear as heroes as grounds for power? What if you could actually join the Talon Company by being a jerk and gaining some reputation by helping them in their ultimate goal? These quests could conflict with or build on that aim to help some settlements. There could be conflicting quests with Reilly's Rangers and as an optional part of their quest, you can report them to the leader at Fort Bannister to have them killed and further their agenda. By doing the good quests or choosing the good options, these will be noted by by the new BoS spies. If you support the Talon Company, fetching the GECK and giving a fake code, or just flat-out refusal at Raven Rock would be your last chance before you devote yourself to the New Enclave.
What if there were final bosses. With the New BoS, you have to destroy President Eden after taking over the purifier and he could (somehow) summon powerful robots into the battle and there are various ways to destroy the computer? How about making the final boss in the New Enclave storyline Liberty Prime at the Citadel but was undergoing charging and you could destroy the power generators to make your battle easier?
What about getting on both faction's bad sides by giving the New Enclave the read code AND asking Eden to destroy Raven Rock and go indie?
Damn, wasted opportunities.
But what really irks me is when many compare FO3's story and compare it to FO2's story. Because - and yes, I really mean it - FO2's story is utterly stupid and nonsensical. The mere existence of tribals is a low point and it's beyond me how, after that amount of time after the war and with access to traders the village or Arroyo is in an utterly backward state. They could have passed the technological know-how of the Vault Dweller and the functionality of technological devices down the generations but instead chose to worship him and these devices as mere artifacts, abandoning technology for tribal spirituality. And now they're dying out because of the nonsensical and pointless devolution?! Surprise. Don't get me started on Now Reno and the talking deathclaws either!
What about the Enclave and their "master plan" to send off the occupants of the Vaults to colonize the moon. You mean, the ones they killed off in totally pointless social experiments? Oops. The only thing that makes FO3's story worse is that they COPIED a bad idea.
I also love how many like to point out that you could purify water with a dirt filter. Those people fail to realise that dirt ain't gonna do much to radioactive particles which remain and could well kill a person. Uh, do your research?
As for communities that aren't very self-sustaining? Well, yeah. They do make little sense. The addition of hunters and scavengers would have been good. Actual farming would have been a nice addition. A lot of the turmoil IS explained by the Talon Company who's ultimate goal is to keep DC in that state. I'll go back to this later.
Don't get me started on the radiation too. DC wasn't hit enough to completely destroy the Washington penis, so why do you get irradiated by the water when you're just standing next to it after 200 years? Why is the entrance to Vault 87 irradiated at all?
Myself and many smart people love Fallout 3's world depth. That alone is fascinating and if you don't play the game several times in a row and leave a year between each playthrough, it never gets boring. The immense detail is enough to make the game good, but not great. NV is definitely better.
It's a real shame about the writing. You know what would improve Fallout 3?
Make Super Mutants fewer and far between, just another group from the West fighting for a bit of DC and get rid of them from Vault 87 alongside the mere existence of FEV in the East Coast. Make the Talon Company the main foe, keeping the other enemies.
Make the Outcasts the true BoS and rename the BoS, only giving PA to the highest ranking soldiers and make them less... Brotherhood like. They can remain altruistic but now have a more practical means to gain control. They can still originate from the BoS and that civil war could still occur.
Get rid of the Enclave and replace them with a group that formed from a few survivors of the old group who moved East, gaining new recruits, stumbling upon DC and deciding to make use of the purifier as a means of control, NOT genocide. Make them perform questionable actions that would put DC in a progressive direction but make power their ultimate goal, not altruism. Make is so when they intercept you at Vault 87 and choose you to give the real code, you set aside the events and a new questline where you take their side. Why shoot someone for helping you? Make it so that they are harsh and ruthless but their plan isn't STUPID.
Remember what I said about the Talon Mercs? Their employer is unknown. But what if their employer was the New Enclave who hired them to keep the DC in turmoil and make the New Elcnalve appear as heroes as grounds for power? What if you could actually join the Talon Company by being a jerk and gaining some reputation by helping them in their ultimate goal? These quests could conflict with or build on that aim to help some settlements. There could be conflicting quests with Reilly's Rangers and as an optional part of their quest, you can report them to the leader at Fort Bannister to have them killed and further their agenda. By doing the good quests or choosing the good options, these will be noted by by the new BoS spies. If you support the Talon Company, fetching the GECK and giving a fake code, or just flat-out refusal at Raven Rock would be your last chance before you devote yourself to the New Enclave.
What if there were final bosses. With the New BoS, you have to destroy President Eden after taking over the purifier and he could (somehow) summon powerful robots into the battle and there are various ways to destroy the computer? How about making the final boss in the New Enclave storyline Liberty Prime at the Citadel but was undergoing charging and you could destroy the power generators to make your battle easier?
What about getting on both faction's bad sides by giving the New Enclave the read code AND asking Eden to destroy Raven Rock and go indie?
Damn, wasted opportunities.