Triple Alliance
First time out of the vault
I'm curious, do you think the election was stolen from Trump because more counties voted for him?
First time out of the vault
Triple Alliance
First time out of the vault
Somehow the political structure of the fictional NCR resembles the real life USA, but also any resemblance isn't valid.
PaxVenire
Wasteland Peacemaker
Dude what? Reddit is the most anti-opinionated echo chamber of a website you can find. I've legitimately seen more diversity of opinions regarding this series on this site than I have on Reddit. There's literally a feature baked into Reddit where after a certain amount of downvotes your comment just gets shoved to the bottom of the thread and censored to where you have to click the expand option to even see what was said. I'll grant you that yes, Reddit does have a lot more users than a niche fan website from 1996, but like you're having a laugh if you genuinely believe they represent anything but their own echo chamber.
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Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I said the most, not the same. Doesn't change the fact that the setting of Fallout has a completely different context to ours and trying to apply real world politics to it makes no sense. The setting of Fallout requires completely different measures to ours if it needs changing.
Cambragol
Been in and out of the vault a few times
The 'best' moral dilemma will likely be determined by how conflicted your moral system is. Liberals will be especially conflicted here.
Also, why the focus on 'moral dilemma'? I can understand it makes for fun gameplay, but does the original Fallout really have thaaaaat much moral dilemna? Just fucking kill the Master. Duh.
Also, why the focus on 'moral dilemma'? I can understand it makes for fun gameplay, but does the original Fallout really have thaaaaat much moral dilemna? Just fucking kill the Master. Duh.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
...and not kill the Necropolis ghouls by stealing their water purification chip?
Cambragol
Been in and out of the vault a few times
Exactly. Just kill those fucking ghouls already. Hahaha
But seriously, is there really a dilemma there? No. None whatsoever.
But seriously, is there really a dilemma there? No. None whatsoever.
PaxVenire
Wasteland Peacemaker
Fallout 1 definitely had moral dilemmas. It wasn’t as gray as Fallout New Vegas but they’re there. Killian or Gizmo in Junktown, steal the water chip from Necropolis for your Vault, send water caravans to your Vault potentially exposing its location, and working for Decker or reporting him come to mind.
Cambragol
Been in and out of the vault a few times
Sure. Not exactly 'Moral Dilemmas' though. More just...tactical decisions.
Triple Alliance
First time out of the vault
Agree to disagree. New Vegas has a lot of cut content that would have made choosing the NCR more morally compromising, but were cut, because obviously the developers are biased for the NCR.
they cut ncr trooper shooting water beggars.
also, its pretty telling that bitter springs is "no one knows what really happened" if the developers wanted some moral nuance, it should have been portrayed more like the My Lai massacre and not just "shit happens"
Triple Alliance
First time out of the vault
You're conflating diversity of opinion versus the quantity of people that hold the same opinion. An echo chamber with more people still represents a larger portion of the NV's player's base than a smaller site.
PaxVenire
Wasteland Peacemaker
What am I even agreeing/disagreeing with? That response was for the guy above my reply.
I mean I guess, but it's not like the NCR is presented as shiny and picturesque to begin with. They're shown to be incompetent, hiring a fuckup like Fantastic at Helios One, they have you shoot to kill three crucified soldiers in Nelson because they don't want to attempt a rescue, Thomas Hildern has sent who knows how many people to die in Vault 22 all for some Operation Paperclip-like research, pretty much everyone talks about how the government is ran by Brahmin barons and how they're expansion into the Mojave is basically just an ego trip for Kimball, they literally are set to lose to the Legion without Courier intervention because General Oliver let the first battle of Hoover Dam get to their head, General Oliver is a fool who's only General over Hsu because of favoritism from Kimball, they sit by and watch Primm get sacked by raiders because they're stretched too thin, they want to slaughter the Khans in Boulder City regardless if the Courier set up a deal to let them and the hostages go. I can go on. The NCR is full of good people ruled by pathetic corrupt weirdos, that's the point. Just because they don't overtly shoot water drinkers doesn't make them wholly innocent.
I don't know how to explain this to you, but diversity of opinion is literally how you measure the average opinion. The quantity of people in an echo chamber doesn't matter when your aim is that of the general consensus. That's like going to the DNC and saying most Americans are Democrats because there's barely any Republicans there. What you're saying makes no sense.
Triple Alliance
First time out of the vault
There are actually more registered Democrats than Registered Republicans, and Independents lean more towards Democrats . I wouldn't say a majority of Americans are Democrats, but's it a plurality.
The general consensus is cumulative, not weighted. We don't give more weight to NMA just because it has more diverse opinions. If there's a 100 people on this site and only 5 people support NCR, vs 10,000 Redditors and 9,000 of them support NCR, the consensus is the NV player base leans towards NCR.
Triple Alliance
First time out of the vault
That NV is more morally gray than Fallout 1. The developers clearly nudged you in the direction that Legion = Irredeemably Evil. All Human Companions have conflict with the PC siding with Legion. The NCR faction allows the PC freedom to do with they wish with any faction like Independent, not forcing any choices like Caesar and Mr. House wanting to kill the BOS.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
People either ignore this or think democracy is better for the wasteland when it's clearly not working.
What people also miss is that the NCR is commiting the same exact mistakes the old world did and those mistakes led to the end of that world. This is why someone can make a strong against the NCR and pick other factions, NCR's path will most likely lead to yet another nuclear war and a second apocalypse. Hence why thinking the wasteland's context is the same as real world is stupid, the game sets it up and then the player is supposed to make a choice that is the best for the wasteland and not for the real world. And of course it's easier if you are NCR, they control the area at the start of the game and the Legion arrived recently at the Mojave and are the biggest enemy of the NCR.
So, no, the devs aren't more biased towards the NCR. The fact that the NCR has more content is solely because it was the first faction to be worked on and the limited time caused to take an axe to other factions. The Legion actually had quests where the player would see how life is in Legion territory, so i very much doubt Obsidian was trying to make Legion pure evil.
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Resardiv
Herr
I like the NCR because they have expeditionary capabilities and sophisticated logistics.
You like the NCR because muh democracy.
We're not the same.
You like the NCR because muh democracy.
We're not the same.
Iprovidelittlepianos
Vault Senior Citizen
That’s not fair, every faction will inevitably lead to a second apocalypse according to the Master.
PaxVenire
Wasteland Peacemaker
I agree that the NCR content is a little more one-sided compared to the Legion or House (something I blame on the short development cycle), however New Vegas is objectively more morally gray than Fallout 1. There are more moral quandaries to be found in NV than there are with FO1, in which I can only really count two: the Necropolis water chip and sending the water caravans to Vault 13. Fallout 1 was a more bleak game than New Vegas because it was closer to the post-apocalypse and the wasteland felt scarier and more isolated than New Vegas in which civilization has reached a point of normality, but New Vegas has way more morally gray side quests.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
The interesting moral dilemma in Fallout [1] was when people found out the consequence of their actions in the end—and immediately replayed the game to undo their actions to avoid having those consequences happen. I don't know of that happening with Fallout 2, and would scarcely believe it of FO3 or beyond.
Triple Alliance
First time out of the vault
Funny cause that sounds like the plot of the Fallout TV show.