The books of Tolkien

I've got nothing to add, really. "Fifty pages of describing a tree" is wrong indeed, but not much to say beyond that.

Tolkien may have failed at times to deliver a great storyline, but he always knew how to approach to his language, how to mold it and fit it to his vision and make a work of art from it. In this case, I don't ask for more.

As for it being a fantasy genre, that's a whole other thing. Over the years I've started to abhor fantasy more and more myself, but Tolkien will always have a place in my heart.

In any case, to return to my previous point - I find it....peculiar to call his writing boring. From a subjective viewpoint, that is totally valid, of course, as personal taste is personal taste, but I find it hard for anyone to deny Tolkien's ability with words.
Risking a bad comparison here, but that's like dissing Shakespeare's style - it may be hard to read, it may be "boring" - but his work is that of enduring linguistic quality, a testimony to the time and place when the book was written, to circumstances under which it was formed, and first and foremost, an enduring stamp, author's legacy and his achievement of artistic form.
Tolkien is no different than that, at least in theory.

But, like I said, tastes are tastes, opinions are opinions. Plus, I love Hass too much to actually be pissed off in any way, so I'll leave it at that.



Gaspard said:
Atomkilla said:
I've seen an old Soviet translation of Hobbit, with illustration. It's the single most beautiful take on Tolkien's work just because it is so unconventional. I can't seem to find it though, but it's floating the nets.
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Can you spot it in this list? http://www.kulichki.com/tolkien/arhiv/ugolok/ob_hobbit.shtml
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First row, the middle one, but I'm not 100% sure.
But man, seeing all these covers....wow. They're really great.

This one was full illustrated though, and I'm pretty sure I got the right one.



Edit:
Found the fucker.

http://flavorwire.com/305185/awesome-illustrations-from-a-1972-soviet-edition-of-the-hobbit/

Some of the images are there, I believe there are more.
 
Ah yes, nice style. Reminds me of dutch children's books.

I agree with Atomkilla on everything, but I wouldn't say that Tolkien ever failed to write a good story. Even in parts. Perhaps some drafts we never saw, or at least weren't read by me.
 
I'm not saying he failed to write a good story, far from that. I'm just saying his stories aren't perfect and are flawed, but on the other hand, what human creation is not?
 
Oh, snap, Atomkilla - that book has some really great illustrations in it. That is all gold: art & illustration in one. No discounts for a children's book either :seriouslyno:

Honestly? I got a full set of paperbacks from one publisher. All the books, but the Hobbit. I read through Silmarillion and Fellowship, but I had to stop there. The tone of writing really irked me by that point. I want to pick it up again, but haven't had the time/have had more pressing stuff on my reading list. I read most of the books several times as a teenager anyway :roll: so I'm in no hurry.
 
Atomkilla said:
I imagine elf chicks as having three boobs...
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You can imagine them any way you like, as far as I'm concerned. I'm just pointing out that some interpretations are based on the pre-conceived notions of the reader rather than the text itself.

Hassknecht said:
Also, it puts me in the great place of pissing Tolkien fans off...
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That's fine. I feel the same way about fans of Alan Moore, and Alan Moore fans are vastly more insufferable than Tolkien fans.

I've noticed that Tolkien seems to make an impact when you're a kid. If you missed reading it as a kid, you'll never appreciate it as much as someone who did.
 
I agree fully /w UW on both counts: the preconceived notions of the reader rather than the text and the reading as a kid bit :nod:
 
Gaspard said:
...the preconceived notions of the reader rather than the text...
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That's one of the things that annoys me the most about the movies, I think. The splendor of Tolkien lies in his light touch when it comes to specific description; your imagination is left free to fill out the pictures in whatever way it chooses. The movies destroy this internal freedom by making everything irritatingly concrete. What's worse, it's somebody else's interpretation (and an unsatisfactory one, in my opinion). If you were unfortunate enough watch the movies before you read the books, you'll never be able to experience them free from that outside influence.
 
That might be the reason why I don't have many problems with the look of the lotr movies. The only things I really do not like at all is the mouth of sauron, and some things I can not remember at the moment. And the fact that Smaug in the Hobbit movies has only 4 appendages including wings really cheeses me off greatly.
 
UniversalWolf said:
You can imagine them any way you like, as far as I'm concerned. I'm just pointing out that some interpretations are based on the pre-conceived notions of the reader rather than the text itself.
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Hey, I hear you man.
I think I wrote something similar a page or so back. But I am note sure. I might've thought about writing that, but never did...

I'm too lazy to check, anyway.
 
My girlfriend and I tried out the idea where I read the silmarillion to her. I think I read as far as page 3, before we got tired. But her reaction was basically to stop with it. She's no fan of ye olde english with thine's and thy's.

I gave her the Hobbit instead, a far superior idea.
 
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Yeah, I could see The Silmarillion being a tough sell in that circumstance. The Hobbit should be way more relationship friendly.
 
I've reached the chapter "Of Turin Turambar" in the Silmarillion today. So. . should I grab The Children of Hurin now? Does it fit there, chronologically?

Edit: http://www.timelineuniverse.net/MiddleEarth/MiddleEarthChronology.htm That says yes. So I guess I'll just book up that book, once I get home. So excited.

Edit 2: So how unfinished is Unfinished Tales really? It seems to tell more of the istari, of isildur and numenor and those things make me damn excited. Should I buy it? Any fans here?
 
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Akratus said:
So how unfinished is Unfinished Tales really?
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It's been some time since I read it, but since you're into Tolkien I think you'd like it. It's not "unfinished" in the sense that you get halfway through the stories and then they end; it's more like a bunch of short stories, episodes, and poems that don't necessarily fit anywhere else. Some of them are re-tellings of parts of other stories, but in more detail.

EDIT: I took a quick look at my copy of Unfinished Tales. There's some pretty good stuff in there. I remember liking the first story, which is about how Tuor found his way to Nevrast and found the armor Turgon had left there when he departed for Gondolin. Then Ulmo rises from the sea and talks to Tuor, and he finds his way to Gondolin.
 
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I've finished the Children of Hurin last week. What an amazing book, as all of Tolkien's books are. But this one had a certain specialty to it that set it apart. I don't mean that it's better than the rest, but it certainly is unique. I've reached the final part of the Silmarillion as well, about the forging of the rings of power. After that I'll start on the Hobbit. The silmarillion has a special quality of it's own as well, and all of Tolkien's books do. It's such a delight to read these books.

I'm really a complete newbie when it comes to reading, but I think that it'll take a lot for anything to dethrone Tolkien's books as my favorite writings of all time.
 
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Akratus said:
I'm really a complete newbie when it comes to reading, but I think that it'll take a lot for anything to dethrone Tolkien's books as my favorite writings of all time.
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Dethrone him from being your favorite epic fantasy writer? Yep, that is hard.
But dethrone him in general? Just wait a few years and few more books. Trust me, that will happen.

Glad you enjoyed Silmarilion. It's the best by Tolkien, in my humble opinion.
 
Atomkilla said:
Akratus said:
I'm really a complete newbie when it comes to reading, but I think that it'll take a lot for anything to dethrone Tolkien's books as my favorite writings of all time.
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Dethrone him from being your favorite epic fantasy writer? Yep, that is hard.
But dethrone him in general? Just wait a few years and few more books. Trust me, that will happen.

Glad you enjoyed Silmarilion. It's the best by Tolkien, in my humble opinion.
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Yes I meant in a personal sense. I didn't even think about how long it might take for anyone to become the next greatest fantasy author. I think it'll take a bit longer than a few years and a few books, since Tolkien basically made fantasy as we know it today and his influence is so incredibly strong in all of fantasy. But it is inevitable indeed.

For me personally, the Lord of the Rings trilogy will remain as the books I enjoy most from Tolkien. Although the Silmarillion, Children of Hurin and The Hobbit are all unique in their own way and fantastic books as well, they lag only slightly behind LotR in my sheer enjoyment of reading them.

I would rank them:
1. LotR
2. Shared spot for Children of Hurin and Silmarillion
3. The Hobbit

I simply can't decide whether I like Children of Hurin or the Silmarillion better. Children of Hurin is more personal, with more character focus but the Silmarillion is bigger in scope and better in a sheer fantastical sense. It really evokes that feeling as though I am reading a historical text hundreds of years old. But the Children of Hurin is also a uniquely tragic tale. It is a pickle, no doubt about it.

But the ranking is only slightly useful and trying to discern which is better is useless, since if I were to rate them with numbers they would all get a 5/5 or a 10/10.

EDIT: Yep, no. Finished the Silmarillion just now. It's so beautiful. That last sentence, that last chapter. Perfect. It shares the top spot with LotR for me now.
 
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