The brother hood of Steel in FO3

Public said:
I think it would be much better if they used the new BoS as an "Outcasts". Then the real BoS would still be the same.
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That's pretty much exactly how it is. If you took the time to read (or actually play it) you could see this.

The new BoS are the outcasts. They are recognized as being part of the BoS but they are cut off from the west coast because they aren't following their plan.

The old BoS who are called "Outcasts" call themselves that to spite Elder Lyons. They know it bothers him to think that holding to the original principles has forced them on their own. Now they are trying to establish comm. with the BoS back home.

But this would require actually trying to understand it to get it, so I can see why some don't. It's much easier to just say 'Beth wants paladins so they screwed up teh lore!'
 
You didn't get me dude.

The BoS in FO3 should be called the "Outcasts", and the "Outcasts" should be called BoS.

And I played the game, very deeply trust me...

...and your explenations are stupid like you were 10 years old. You're just covering Beth's ass, you know that?
 
I'm not sure what an "explenation" is. Sorry. :(

And no, you still didn't get it. At all. And you never will because you obviously don't want to.

But for anyone else halfway open-minded, yes.. the Outcasts know they should be the BoS and they call themselves Outcasts to spite Lyons. For the 4th and last time. Play the game and you too can find this out for yourself.
 
Cut the personal insults and play the game, Public. betamonkey is right.

Yes, the Outcasts are the real BoS. The game recognises this, and notes that the Outcasts only called themselves the Outcasts on an ironic note.
 
Eh I didn't really like the BoS as they are at the Pentagon, all goody goody for the most part. I was curious to check out the Outcast guys, but slipped my mind - do they offer anything interesting lore or quest wise ?

And I think Public's point was just doing away with that ironic twist with the name switch, I can't see the game suffering that much for it.
 
Ulysses said:
Eh I didn't really like the BoS as they are at the Pentagon, all goody goody for the most part. I was curious to check out the Outcast guys, but slipped my mind - do they offer anything interesting lore or quest wise ?

And I think Public's point was just doing away with that ironic twist with the name switch, I can't see the game suffering that much for it.
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The Outcasts, true to the original BoS from Fallout 1, are xenophobes and asshats. As such, even if you come to them wearing more advanced power armor than theirs and wield alien technology, they still ask "shouldn't you be banging rocks together?" So no, you can't join them. All you can do is "sell" them technology.
 
Enough lurking. Why I didn't join NMA years ago is beyond me.

Personally, the schism isn't too difficult a concept to follow, except that it should make Lyons' group the outcasts, not those who follow the original ethos. Yes, they call themselves Outcasts out of spite, but still.

Furthurmore, the representation of the BoS as a bunch of macho soldier-types bugs me.

But more than anything else, I was irritated at the fact the main quest railroads you into working with them. Bethsoft can't write for shit, so they rely on attaching you to a powerful faction to tell the story for them. And Liberty Prime. Oh god. Oblivion all over again.
 
I read an interesting post on another forum that drew a comparison between Elder Lyons and the original Vault Dweller. He made the point that it was an example of two people being removed from their isolationist, dogmatic social environments and into an unfamiliar place where they had little to no contact with their former associates, and the need to make their own decisions on how to interact with the world around them.

I can understand how Elder Lyons, when in the presence of his fellow Elders, could be groupthinked into turning a blind eye to the suffering of the wastelanders. I can also understand that when thrust into a position of sole authority and removed from that isolationist mindset, his suppressed sense of honour and willingness to act in the defense of others would come to the fore.

Actually, I think the idea of the Outcasts is quite interesting. I would think it unrealistic to imagine that the East Coast BoS would accept this new policy to a man. It's a pretty realistic notion that some would be opposed to any change of status quo.
 
Brotherhood at your service

So I jut got to the brotherhood's main complex and all the soldiers were like.. we are honored that your with us, and the Brotherhood at your service. It made me sick to no belief that they made the brotherhood a bunch of sissy girls wanting to defend the weak? Ooo, a clan of knights who are valorous, and honorable. It just really bust my nuts that they changed the brotherhood so drastically.
So I think I like the outcast more then the "brotherhood" in number three. They seem more like the brotherhood from the first game and I like that.
I think if Bethseda really wanted to make their main quest amazing they should have kept a brotherhood as they normally were. It would have added some kind of twist in the quest.

So who do you all like better, Outcast, or The Brotherhood Of Steel?
 
I like the Outcasts. I found their base and got a cool pair of armor from them.
 
I talked to an Outcast leader at Fort Independence who was saying how wussy and soft the Brotherhood at the Citadel has gotten, and that's why they broke off from them. So they definitely included the old-fashioned apathetic Brotherhood in the game, but as part of the Outcasts.
 
I prefer Enclave. They have more style and tech. And 'president Eden' is cool :)
 
Re: Brotherhood at your service

DoctorMorbid12 said:
So I jut got to the brotherhood's main complex and all the soldiers were like.. we are honored that your with us, and the Brotherhood at your service. It made me sick to no belief that they made the brotherhood a bunch of sissy girls wanting to defend the weak? Ooo, a clan of knights who are valorous, and honorable. It just really bust my nuts that they changed the brotherhood so drastically.
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They did not "change" the Brotherhood, They are an offshoot of the Western Brotherhood who decided helping the weak in the waste land was a noble thing to do.

It is even explained in the game that while recognized they get no official support from the west. Also the outcast even throw in jabs about how they are traitors and blah blah blah.

Point being I see absolutely nothing wrong with what they did here. Is it so unlikely that there might have been those in the Brotherhood who wanted to try and be a force of good in the waste?
 
It feels... unfitting in the realm of Fallout. I don't think the "heroic" BoS is terribly pulled off, and it's interesting that Elder Lyons have doubts about his actions (which you can find in his log).
But from a gamedesign point of view, it feels as if Bethesda really wanted to introduce something heroic for the player (the hero of the wasteland!) to cling onto.

In the games own context, the Outcasts (while explained) are largely a counterpoint to the heroic BoS. They even have evil fingers and darkened armors. It's also a fairly useless conflict since nothing ever comes of it ingame, no confrontations or whatever.

It feels as though the Outcasts are tacked on to provide a link to the older Fallouts, but the player is supposed to accept this new heroic BoS as the real one.
 
the outcast are the true brotherhood there, the others are a bunch of arrogants idiots trying to save the day, from all favorite freaks the super mutants
 
While I would have loved to see more of the "Outcasts" in FO3, realistically, what else could they have done? The Outcasts clearly don't want anything to do with anyone else, unless it involves them gathering tech - which is what is exactly done in FO3, more or less. So unless they got pulled into more far-reaching story arc, their current exposure in the game is fine, albeit small.
 
Gooscar said:
To be honest, the Enclave have one thing going for them:

Malcolm Motherfucking McDowell
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All we need now is Mark "Skywalker" "Blair" Hammil to make appearance on BOS side telling them their force is storng and price of freedom is eternal vigilance. :mrgreen:
 
I liked the Outcasts, but it would've been better to be able to join them, in the classic brotherhood way...

SUICIAL WANNABE-KILLING MISSION!

"So you want to join the brotherhood? We only accept the best. Well, there's this Talon Company camp that has been sending atacks against us, but we have no time to deal with their pityful offensives with outdated weaponry. I want you to kill all those raiders *takes the player's inventory, EVERYTHING he has* wiiiiith... A Zip Gun, a baseball club and a spiked knuckles! *gives Zip Gun, 72 10mm bullets, a spiked knuckles and a baseball club to the player* I'll send some of my men to watch you. When every Talon merc is dead and rotting, and you return with all their energy weapons, I will reward you and give you your second mission. If you complete both missions, you are strong enough to be with the brotherhood. Good luck. *the guard nearby laughs*

"You did it?! I can't believe it. Now here's the next mission. There's a secret laboratory near Murder Pass. We sent one of our squads there, but even prepared, they died somehow. You need to go there and return with proof of your passage there. If possible, recover any technology from our fallen brothers, specially their armor. Buy lots of Rad-X and Rad-Away, good luck."
 
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