S
Stag
Guest
Poison Ivy Catwoman Bane Azrael.
That is the next movie.
That is the next movie.
The Dark Knight
- Thread starter UniversalWolf
- Start date
Moving Target
Mildly Dipped
If handled correctly, the Bane/Azrael/New Batman storyline would be AMAZING. Though Christian Bale's a bit young for that story, so if the next movie's set even a few years after The Dark Knight, it'd stretch credibility, to put it mildly.
Which is sort of ironic, considering that Christian Bale was a bit too old to play "young" Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins.
Which is sort of ironic, considering that Christian Bale was a bit too old to play "young" Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins.
S
Stag
Guest
Allstar Batman and Robin Boy Wonder, then.
Disclaimer: Beware of Batman spoilers of all time in this post.
Saw TDK today and really liked it. I didn't know much about it going in, save for that there was (is) a massive hype about it, and that Ledger's dead.
Anyway, I especially liked how they developed Batmans character. In the next movie, I would like to see them stretch this further, and make him go even further away from his 'original intentions' - let him sell out what is left of his morals in Order to achieve the 'greater good' that he is fighting for. I mean, the duder is operating above the law and is using violence to prove his point. Even though I know that Batman is 'good', he really doesn't have to be. I would for starters like to see him deliberately kill a man, and by kill, I mean execute. It wouldn't be that far a stretch, really. He did deliberately (though one could argue somewhat "indirectly") kill Ra's al Ghul in Batman Begins by not saving him. "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you." The mega-good Batman would have saved Ghul and sent him behind bars, but the new Batman realized that Ghul would then find a way, like the dinosaurs did in Jurassic Park. Instead of deliberately letting a man plummet to his ultimate demise, as he's done already, I would like to see Batman kill someone in the aftermath of close combat. Not by accident, but by "You are too evil to continue to live". Consider the potential circumstances; Batman could have the life of the perhaps most evil guy in the universe in his grasp, knowing that if he lets the villain go, he'll just get out of jail by contacts and continue to spread his evil. I say; leave Batman with death by execution as the only just solution left to a vexing predicament. Then, if he'd become bat-shit crazy and start to slay younglings and shit, he could go all Anakin on Gothham.
Saw TDK today and really liked it. I didn't know much about it going in, save for that there was (is) a massive hype about it, and that Ledger's dead.
Anyway, I especially liked how they developed Batmans character. In the next movie, I would like to see them stretch this further, and make him go even further away from his 'original intentions' - let him sell out what is left of his morals in Order to achieve the 'greater good' that he is fighting for. I mean, the duder is operating above the law and is using violence to prove his point. Even though I know that Batman is 'good', he really doesn't have to be. I would for starters like to see him deliberately kill a man, and by kill, I mean execute. It wouldn't be that far a stretch, really. He did deliberately (though one could argue somewhat "indirectly") kill Ra's al Ghul in Batman Begins by not saving him. "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you." The mega-good Batman would have saved Ghul and sent him behind bars, but the new Batman realized that Ghul would then find a way, like the dinosaurs did in Jurassic Park. Instead of deliberately letting a man plummet to his ultimate demise, as he's done already, I would like to see Batman kill someone in the aftermath of close combat. Not by accident, but by "You are too evil to continue to live". Consider the potential circumstances; Batman could have the life of the perhaps most evil guy in the universe in his grasp, knowing that if he lets the villain go, he'll just get out of jail by contacts and continue to spread his evil. I say; leave Batman with death by execution as the only just solution left to a vexing predicament. Then, if he'd become bat-shit crazy and start to slay younglings and shit, he could go all Anakin on Gothham.
S
Stag
Guest
Or they could do Allstar right now.
S
Stag
Guest
I'm the goddamn Nexus6.
I mean, hell, they're already going for "Look, our Batman is edgy!", so why not go all the way through with it?
I mean, hell, they're already going for "Look, our Batman is edgy!", so why not go all the way through with it?
Luke said:
He already passed up that opportunity by letting the Joker live. If he's not going to execute the Joker for being too evil, I don't think he can do that to anyone.
But yeah. You get to see the back of Gordon's daughter's head. That's riveting.
Spoilers/
Also where is it suggested that Two-Face is dead? I seem to have missed that. Last time I checked he was just taking a dirt nap. HES JSTU SLEEPING!1 No, but seriously.
Edit: Yeah so Two-face isn't dead you dicks.
He isn't Venom you guys.
SPOILERS:
MORE SPOILERS:
I think it's interesting that they left the Joker alive at the end. This goes completely against the common movie flow. I think before Ledger died, they were intending to bring him back as a recurring villain which, despite being a staple of comic books, has never been done in a superhero movie (Scarecrow barley counts). Personally, even without Ledger's fantastic performance, I'd still like to to see more of the Joker, assuming they can keep the character fresh. We'd have to be kidding ourselves to think there is no other actor in Hollywood who could pull off the Joker as well as Ledger did. Nolan's proven that he's willing to recast characters, like with Rachel and I'm told the Scarecrow is just an amazing lookalike. Personally, I desperately want to see Harley Quinn in a movie. Can you imagine a bubbly, giggling, psychopathic bimbo with pigtails and clown makeup in a dark setting like this? If done right, she could be downright terrifying! But plenty of other villains would be good too. Nolan has put a good twist on existing characters, so I could picture the Riddler becoming something akin to Jigsaw (from Saw, not the Punisher). Poison Ivy as an eco-terrorist would make sense (no giant man-eating plant though). Catwoman is a must. I think the Penguin would be good as a minor character or a cameo, but he couldn't hold together an entire movie as a main villain when his main gimmick is just killer umbrellas. I think Ahnuld pretty much euthanized Mr. Freeze, though he wouldn't fit anyway. IGN did an interesting article on possible future villains (though I personally found part two kind of useless):
http://comics.ign.com/articles/888/888464p1.html
http://comics.ign.com/articles/891/891521p1.html
I think any rumors about Batman 3 this early on are pretty unlikely to be true, but regardless, here's the latest on who's picked to play the next villains:
http://movies.ign.com/articles/895/895689p1.html
EDIT:
More proof Venom isn't dead:
http://movies.ign.com/articles/895/895369p1.html
He looked pretty dead to me. I mean, typically I believe that unless you see the body with it's eyes open or it's head cut off or something then the character is not dead (sci-fi resurrections like Spock notwithstanding). They pull that trick too many times in movies to fool me anymore. But they did have a eulogy for him and this new Batman series doesn't strike me as the type to go for miraculous resurrections. I think Two-Face's story is over and given how they developed the character for this movie I think turning him into a mob boss like in the comics is a bit of a stretch. Venom, on the other hand, is very much alive. Killing a major villain like him so quickly would be downright stupid and if you watch just before the explosion he gets "sucked in." I think he merged with the symbiote just long enough to web-zip away. Again, no body, no corpse.
MORE SPOILERS:
I think it's interesting that they left the Joker alive at the end. This goes completely against the common movie flow. I think before Ledger died, they were intending to bring him back as a recurring villain which, despite being a staple of comic books, has never been done in a superhero movie (Scarecrow barley counts). Personally, even without Ledger's fantastic performance, I'd still like to to see more of the Joker, assuming they can keep the character fresh. We'd have to be kidding ourselves to think there is no other actor in Hollywood who could pull off the Joker as well as Ledger did. Nolan's proven that he's willing to recast characters, like with Rachel and I'm told the Scarecrow is just an amazing lookalike. Personally, I desperately want to see Harley Quinn in a movie. Can you imagine a bubbly, giggling, psychopathic bimbo with pigtails and clown makeup in a dark setting like this? If done right, she could be downright terrifying! But plenty of other villains would be good too. Nolan has put a good twist on existing characters, so I could picture the Riddler becoming something akin to Jigsaw (from Saw, not the Punisher). Poison Ivy as an eco-terrorist would make sense (no giant man-eating plant though). Catwoman is a must. I think the Penguin would be good as a minor character or a cameo, but he couldn't hold together an entire movie as a main villain when his main gimmick is just killer umbrellas. I think Ahnuld pretty much euthanized Mr. Freeze, though he wouldn't fit anyway. IGN did an interesting article on possible future villains (though I personally found part two kind of useless):
http://comics.ign.com/articles/888/888464p1.html
http://comics.ign.com/articles/891/891521p1.html
I think any rumors about Batman 3 this early on are pretty unlikely to be true, but regardless, here's the latest on who's picked to play the next villains:
http://movies.ign.com/articles/895/895689p1.html
EDIT:
More proof Venom isn't dead:
http://movies.ign.com/articles/895/895369p1.html
saw it
Saw it. Liked it a lot. I agree that I was worried about all the hype around Ledgers Joker but thankfully he definitely fulfilled the hype.
I didn't have to many problems with the movie. I do dig the fact this Batman is hard and gritty. I agree that it's a gritty movie. IT WAS supposed TO BE.
I'm also the one who said "Oh shit" during the "magic trick" and then laughed before having to explain it to teh wife.
Saw it. Liked it a lot. I agree that I was worried about all the hype around Ledgers Joker but thankfully he definitely fulfilled the hype.
I didn't have to many problems with the movie. I do dig the fact this Batman is hard and gritty. I agree that it's a gritty movie. IT WAS supposed TO BE.
I'm also the one who said "Oh shit" during the "magic trick" and then laughed before having to explain it to teh wife.
maximaz
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Saw it last night. Let me first say that I LOVED Batman Begins and expected TDK to be better. Unfortunately, it wasn't. I thought it was a great movie and I intend to see it again in IMAX but it just didn't do for me what Begins did.
One of the cool things about Begins was that the focus was mainly on Batman. That was what differentiated it from the previous Batmans. They all focused on the villains, while Batman was more of a secondary character. It changed in Begins and it changed back in TDK. Batman was probably the least interesting character in TDK.
The Joker was very interesting and Ledger did a great job but it wasn't the most amazing performance, if you forget that Ledger died. I know it was intended to be so but the character did not seem developed enough to me. There was no background or any motives behind his actions, which was probably done on purpose but I'd like to know SOMETHING about him. He can have no motivation other than madness but then where the f did he come from? I don't know, maybe Ledger in fact didn't complete all his scenes.
Two-Face was fantastic. The whole story with him was amazing considering its connection to Joker's intentions. The background of the movie, including the Joker, make his story very dramatic and the most complete.
While I'm on the subject, I'm 99% sure Dent didn't die considering the background of the movie. A big theme of the confrontation between the Joker and Batman was whether he would kill. Batman went through great lengths not to kill, while Joker wanted him to kill. Dent's funeral could be organized just like Gordon's was. He was probably locked up and held in secret in Arkham or whatever. At the same time, the Joker did say that Batman would break his rule so who knows but I just don't think he died.
The Bat-tech in the movie bothered me the most. It reminded me of Batman & Robin for some reason. He seemed to have a gadget handy for every situation and the gadgets were a bit silly. The sounds they made and the way they looked were a bit ridiculous. What was up with that sonar thing?
OHhh, how about the new Rachel? I don't care what anyone says, she was painful to look at. She wasn't just ugly, she was gross.
It was a grat movie but didn't live up to the hype. I'll give it another go though.
One of the cool things about Begins was that the focus was mainly on Batman. That was what differentiated it from the previous Batmans. They all focused on the villains, while Batman was more of a secondary character. It changed in Begins and it changed back in TDK. Batman was probably the least interesting character in TDK.
The Joker was very interesting and Ledger did a great job but it wasn't the most amazing performance, if you forget that Ledger died. I know it was intended to be so but the character did not seem developed enough to me. There was no background or any motives behind his actions, which was probably done on purpose but I'd like to know SOMETHING about him. He can have no motivation other than madness but then where the f did he come from? I don't know, maybe Ledger in fact didn't complete all his scenes.
Two-Face was fantastic. The whole story with him was amazing considering its connection to Joker's intentions. The background of the movie, including the Joker, make his story very dramatic and the most complete.
While I'm on the subject, I'm 99% sure Dent didn't die considering the background of the movie. A big theme of the confrontation between the Joker and Batman was whether he would kill. Batman went through great lengths not to kill, while Joker wanted him to kill. Dent's funeral could be organized just like Gordon's was. He was probably locked up and held in secret in Arkham or whatever. At the same time, the Joker did say that Batman would break his rule so who knows but I just don't think he died.
The Bat-tech in the movie bothered me the most. It reminded me of Batman & Robin for some reason. He seemed to have a gadget handy for every situation and the gadgets were a bit silly. The sounds they made and the way they looked were a bit ridiculous. What was up with that sonar thing?
OHhh, how about the new Rachel? I don't care what anyone says, she was painful to look at. She wasn't just ugly, she was gross.
It was a grat movie but didn't live up to the hype. I'll give it another go though.
Paladin Solo
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
maximaz said:
There was a scene where Alfred recalled the story of the gem-thief in Burma to Bruce. Not everyone needs a motive to do something. Plenty of people do things just because they can. It's nothing new, especially in criminal elements. The Joker, himself had many lines in which he explains he does things just because he can.
"I'm an agent of chaos."
maximaz said:
Filming had ended and the movie was in post-production when Ledger died.
Anyways, Nolan said he'd rather leave the background of the Joker up to speculation.
maximaz said:
How do you think bats find their way around?
"Sonar... like a (bat)..."
"Like a submarine, Mr. Wayne. Like a submarine."
iridium_ionizer
Mildly Dipped
It was interesting (and quite tragic) that the Bruce Wayne character really seemed to want a way to stop being Batman. And in order to do that he really had all of his eggs in one basket - Rachel marrying him and Harvey Dent cleaning up the rest of Gotham. When she died and Harvey went bad, psychologically he didn't have another way that he could quit in good conscious.
As for the hopefully pending Batman 3 (Anyone got any good name ideas?), I really hope they use Catwoman and the Riddler, not as a team-up but as two halves with a slight overlap. And they should be used as the characters were intended. If you watch the first season of the 1990's Batman Animated Series then you will know what I mean. Catwoman isn't a true villain, she just looks after her own interests without much regard for the law.
In the animated she steals (as a cat burglar) to finance a wild cat sanctuary. Batman kind of goes easy on her because she is a woman, but she is almost a match for him in agility. And simultaneously Bruce Wayne falls for her as Selina Kyle. And the kicker is that Selina isn't interested in Bruce, but as Catwoman she is very attracted to Batman. Batman finds out her identity, but doesn't reveal his. And eventually he reluctantly turns her over to the law, while Bruce Wayne actually acts as a character witness on her behalf.
The Riddler needs to tax Batman intellectually. Scarecrow pushed his sense of fear. The Joker challenge his sense of order - that his villains and the world at large could have some underlying pattern or reason behind them. The Riddler puts Batman's intellect to the test, and makes him earn the title of World's Greatest Detective. His riddles aren't a couple of goofy brainteasers like you find on the back of a cereal box, like the Jim Carey version would have you believe. The Riddler is cunning, deadly, and smart. His riddles are hard - they use trivia and wordplay, but require the keenest of minds to solve. And to catch the Riddler in his hideout is to face some of the deadliest traps ever devised.
As for the hopefully pending Batman 3 (Anyone got any good name ideas?), I really hope they use Catwoman and the Riddler, not as a team-up but as two halves with a slight overlap. And they should be used as the characters were intended. If you watch the first season of the 1990's Batman Animated Series then you will know what I mean. Catwoman isn't a true villain, she just looks after her own interests without much regard for the law.
In the animated she steals (as a cat burglar) to finance a wild cat sanctuary. Batman kind of goes easy on her because she is a woman, but she is almost a match for him in agility. And simultaneously Bruce Wayne falls for her as Selina Kyle. And the kicker is that Selina isn't interested in Bruce, but as Catwoman she is very attracted to Batman. Batman finds out her identity, but doesn't reveal his. And eventually he reluctantly turns her over to the law, while Bruce Wayne actually acts as a character witness on her behalf.
The Riddler needs to tax Batman intellectually. Scarecrow pushed his sense of fear. The Joker challenge his sense of order - that his villains and the world at large could have some underlying pattern or reason behind them. The Riddler puts Batman's intellect to the test, and makes him earn the title of World's Greatest Detective. His riddles aren't a couple of goofy brainteasers like you find on the back of a cereal box, like the Jim Carey version would have you believe. The Riddler is cunning, deadly, and smart. His riddles are hard - they use trivia and wordplay, but require the keenest of minds to solve. And to catch the Riddler in his hideout is to face some of the deadliest traps ever devised.
maximaz
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Paladin, I understand that the Joker was meant to have no explanation but I just don't like it, considering how much effort this new restart is putting into character development. That was mainly my point. I'm glad they didn't do a Joker's origins story; I was actually afraid of that, but I'd like to know something more about him than the fact that he's mad. I'd, at least, like to know where he'd been and what he'd been doing before he decided to get noticed in Gotham or put on his war paint; not necesserily what originally drove him crazy or gave him scars. I was sitting there aching for some sort of revelation about him towards the end but it never came. He was just a psychopath who popped up for whatever reason. There was a bit of The Killing Joke towards the end as he was trying to prove that anyone had it in them to do something evil but it didn't do anything of great importance for the character really.
As far as sonar. I was talking about the way it looked. The whole thing looked a bit out of place in the movie. Batman was way high tech to my liking.
I'm by no means saying that it was a bad movie. It was a great movie and I will watch it again at IMAX and will buy the dvd. It's far from perfect though and did not live up to the hype for me. I'm positive I'll like it more after watching it again but the first time didn't blow me away the same way Begins did.
As far as sonar. I was talking about the way it looked. The whole thing looked a bit out of place in the movie. Batman was way high tech to my liking.
I'm by no means saying that it was a bad movie. It was a great movie and I will watch it again at IMAX and will buy the dvd. It's far from perfect though and did not live up to the hype for me. I'm positive I'll like it more after watching it again but the first time didn't blow me away the same way Begins did.
SimpleMinded
Vault Fossil
Maximaz, I just don't feel like the joker needs any sort of background as keeping his history mysterious IS part of his character development. The way he had a new, grotesque story about his scars everytime he threatened someone reflected the way that he didn't even know who he was as a normal person and instead, was just some ape shit crazy guy who sought to kill.