The Elder Scrolls Online

Akratus

Bleep bloop.
Here's a post I made on the Bethesda forums in a topic on classes:

Really I think some kind of progression limiting process should be implemented. For example, that you would choose at the beginning whether your character has physical or magical talent. Then the skill rates for one or the other would be higher, and the other quite lower. And what I have always wanted to see in an mmo (that isn't eve) is a system where you can train in anything, but the rate at which you can do that decreases the more you learn. So if I have mastered all combat skills it would take maybe 10 times as long for me to maximize one magical skill. All in the interest of balance of course.

But this seems to all come down to the question of balance. And I would ask:

Is it truly in our best interest to make sure that the playing field is always level? Could we not simply segregate the more powerful players from the less powerful ones? This really seems to be an issue of making everything convenient and easy. That one would complain in an mmo that the world is full of characters more powerful than your level 1 character. And that a player expects the same rewards in avatar strength every single time they accomplish something. But that is only a symptom of a game where there are so many conveniences that these powerful players can even roam around and kill whomever in the first place. I do not think that players shouldn't be able to become powerful but the world should react to it. If you become a serial killer for instance there should be forces around trained in dealing with that sort of thing. Like in EVE, players can become pirates but this results in them being hunted by both players and an ingame police force. Sure, you might get killed whilst out in open space by a pirate and you might hate the game for letting a more powerful player barge into your work as you try to find your place in the world but that does not happen to everyone all the time, the player has options of dealing with it and the player who chose to harass a weaker player will have consequences attached to that. It's funny that a game with far more freedom is actually fairer than the game that tries to give every player the same experience.

MMO's hate to enforce consequences for actions, and want to box everything in. This is the crux of the themepark mmo genre and to me it is extremely simplistic and dull. If you go too far in the other direction people will see the mmo as having a steep learning curve and little user friendliness or friendliness to beginners, but that can be abated by making sure that low level players get into the game gradually. That is what eve does not do for example. I've heard of many players simply finishing or even skipping the tutorial, playing a few missions and then getting bored and quiting. They couldn't ease into the larger universe because the game does not make the players aware of it and give them a path to it, if they wish to be led in that way.

Now how does this apply to teso? Perhaps one could create two different worlds in this game. Not physically seperate places but sociological circles. For example, one could make large stretches of space were players begin simple themepark like questing and leveling areas. Then once someone has had their fill of that and progressed with their character they could for example move to the capital city of the land the player is in. This would be a place more seperate from the surrounding areas but it would have a direct connection to the politics (player directed and otherwise), pvp, endgame etc. of the experienced playerbase and rest of the gameworld. (The pvp area of cyrodill would be the perfect playing ground for this playerbase, and be the thing that seperates the activities of lower level and higher level players.)

This is comparable to what themepark mmo's already have, but the difference here is that there is no difference in complexity between those two things in a regular themepark mmo. Once you have reached the maximum level in say world of warcraft you go around from city to city taking part in pvp events or organizing your guild/a group to do pve events. But the complexity of the overal scheme of gameplay options and depth does not expand a whole lot. But it should. Immensely. You might say that it does in world of warcraft as endgame instances are far more complex than low level grinding. But they are not more complex as much as they are more time consuming and difficult. There is a difference. It is as though the developer holds this complexity back out of a fear that players are too simple minded to accept this but I do not believe it is so. In any case players shouldn't be restricted to simply more challenging versions of what they can already do at a lower level, that being pvp and pve. I say we get rid of those terms alltogether, for the good of gameplay complexity in mmo's. Take a look at this: http://swiftandbitte...wtd/eve-wtd.jpg

This is the thought that holds back mmo design, that the game can not be something too unknown, a thing that is not familiar at all for newcomers. This being so that someone who enjoys world of warcraft can far easier step over to this one. But that logic is broken. World of warcraft players already have world of warcraft. Nobody will ever want to lose all their progress only to switch over to something extremely similar. They will only switch over to something that is better.
 
As long as MMOs, and games in general, continue to deliver to the lowest common denominator, there won't be much change in the industry. Themeparks and classes are easy, people whine when they're outplayed by someone else, and so there's the neverending effort to provide balance.

I can't see a company like Bethesda as being one to buck the trends today. They can't even be assed to have effective dialog, let alone in-depth, intelligent gameplay.
 
I said that in my opening post, too.

The Elder Scrolls online is made by Zenimax Online Studios, however.

I give Bethesda a lot of crap for their games, but honestly there are worse games out there. So now that Zenimax has seen fit to grab some people that worked on mmo's or generic shooter/action adventure type titles, they have found a way to make an even more generic game that insults the rpg genre even more. It kind of puts things into perspective. A bigger, suckier perspective.
 
Do they really intend to implement classes in this next game ? I thought their goal was to erase the notion of classes, as they were inexistant in Skyrim, and not very consistant the way they implemented it in Oblivion (same for Morrowind).
 
Rimoan said:
Do they really intend to implement classes in this next game ? I thought their goal was to erase the notion of classes, as they were inexistant in Skyrim, and not very consistant the way they implemented it in Oblivion (same for Morrowind).

Well they are adding classes in The Elder Scrolls Online. From what I've heard they will be more like templates however. Like, it determines what you start with/what quests you can do/what items you get/how fast skills level, maybe things like that. Information is sparse however so take all of this with a grain of salt.
 
I don't think that Bethesda would choose to work seriously on something new and smart about classes. This is business for little companies to expose some creativity/originality, not for a big monster sitting on his well secured crowd of fans from which Bethesda won't need to put too much efforts to make them buy the game.

I don't think at all that Bethesda will be able to catch WOW or Diablo 3 players. This is funny, today I was chatting with a new co-worker, telling he played WOW and then Diablo 3 (I played Diablo 3 too, not for long) after having shown me some Warhammer figurines he painted. I told him that yesterday I had updated my mods on Skyrim. The fact is that he didn't know at all what Skyrim was, I was saying to myself "WTF, is he really a geek?". End of the parenthesis.

In the end I'm really dubious about the Elder Scrolls Online. I was the same about WOW and it ended a big success. I'm not fond of MMORPG, but I'm really curious about this game and what will happen of it. Considering the success of the franchise I wouldn't be surprised that Bethesda makes some money from it.
 
Man, where's that image with all the canon contradictions this shitball has spit out so far?

Funny stuff.
 
Rimoan said:
I don't think that Bethesda would choose to work seriously on something new and smart about classes. This is business for little companies to expose some creativity/originality, not for a big monster sitting on his well secured crowd of fans from which Bethesda won't need to put too much efforts to make them buy the game.

I don't think at all that Bethesda will be able to catch WOW or Diablo 3 players. This is funny, today I was chatting with a new co-worker, telling he played WOW and then Diablo 3 (I played Diablo 3 too, not for long) after having shown me some Warhammer figurines he painted. I told him that yesterday I had updated my mods on Skyrim. The fact is that he didn't know at all what Skyrim was, I was saying to myself "WTF, is he really a geek?". End of the parenthesis.

In the end I'm really dubious about the Elder Scrolls Online. I was the same about WOW and it ended a big success. I'm not fond of MMORPG, but I'm really curious about this game and what will happen of it. Considering the success of the franchise I wouldn't be surprised that Bethesda makes some money from it.

It's Zenimax Online Studios that is making this. Not Bethesda.

Wumbology said:
Man, where's that image with all the canon contradictions this shitball has spit out so far?

Funny stuff.

There's many, but here's the one I could find:

http://i.imgur.com/EEu2oHM.jpg
 
Bethesda doesnt care about something like "lore" because they believe its only in the way of "fun". And sine Zenimax and Bethead a very close. You can be pretty sure that they will not care about that either.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Bethesda doesnt care about something like "lore" because they believe its only in the way of "fun". And sine Zenimax and Bethead a very close. You can be pretty sure that they will not care about that either.

It's surprising actually how well they kept the lore, although not in the foreground. That counts for skyrim, but not oblivion obviously.

That makes me anticipate a complete wreck from these random people pulled together, with no prior experience working on the elder scrolls. And from the looks of it, no prior knowledge of it's complexities either.
 
heh yeah ... but I consider Oblivion a train wreck. I still dont get it how some people can actually ... like that. And I mean as RPG, as good RPG.
 
Because they are too lazy to play actuall RPG?
They play oblivion and it's sequels(fo3, skyrim) because walkthrough is in game. they don't want to play RPG but want to read poor novel and play poor shooter.
 
Man, (some) Bethesda fans are not happy with this it seems. The Scrollocaust, really? I mean, after Morrowind made of a mockery of Daggerfall's ending choices and Oblivion retconned the geography of an entire province, you'd figure they would understand lore and continuity is secondary to gameplay in the series, even if said lore is indeed fairly deep.

Oh well. I guess they now understand what some people thought about Fallout 3. Myself I will certainly be passing on this. I'm done with MMOs for a lifetime, I think, and in this age of free to play demanding a WoW-like suscription seems a bit suicidal to me.
 
Crni Vuk said:
heh yeah ... but I consider Oblivion a train wreck. I still dont get it how some people can actually ... like that. And I mean as RPG, as good RPG.

Well I said that oblivion was weak lore-wise, it is also otherwise the lowpoint for the elder scrolls.

Ilosar said:
Man, (some) Bethesda fans are not happy with this it seems. The Scrollocaust, really? I mean, after Morrowind made of a mockery of Daggerfall's ending choices and Oblivion retconned the geography of an entire province, you'd figure they would understand lore and continuity is secondary to gameplay in the series, even if said lore is indeed fairly deep.

Oh well. I guess they now understand what some people thought about Fallout 3. Myself I will certainly be passing on this. I'm done with MMOs for a lifetime, I think, and in this age of free to play demanding a WoW-like suscription seems a bit suicidal to me.

The Elder Scrolls online seems to take things in an even more radical direction. It is really trying to make this just another fantasy mmo just like any other, but with a few gimmicks thrown in. The problem is that the Elder Scrolls online changes fundamental things in the lore. That is not the same as changing the appearance of a land we've not seen before, like cyrodill. I mean, you fucking capture elder scrolls like you capture a flag, to get a 5% damage bonus or whatever. And there's a CHIM temple! So this game is really wrecking the entirety of the lore rather than a few debatably important things.
 
well the change of the landscape was pretty drastic when you consider that it was supposed to be some kind of jungle if I remember correctly. But what do you expect if people say things like "fantasy is for us a guy fighting stuff from a horse back" or something like "there are Demons! We have a dark game now!"
 
I know it's not what you were suggesting but the two separate worlds comment brought back traumatic memories of Felucca and Trammel.

And that's a shame they're talking about classes. I do recall UO having preset classes you could use but it was just as easy to create your own, maybe it's something like that. If not, oh well, yet another WoW.
 
It looks like it'll be more of a world of warcraft/dark age of camelot hybrid. What with the 3 factions and all. Besides, I believe that zenimax online studios is made up of mostly old ea mythic employees.
 
isnt the guy who is in charge of the MMO not also someone who worked on Dark Age of Camelot?
 
Could be. Well at least they have that going for them. The feeling of producer/publisher/TRENDS© meddling can't escape me with this game however.

They should also fire their armor artists, I can't find the picture but I saw one of different racial designs of heavy armor sets and they were of low quality with blurry textures and horribly designed.
 
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