The first Season of the Fallout tv show is out

[CT Phipps]

Hey folks, just wanted to share a story from the AV Club on Fallout that I found disturbing, largely because of the low regard given Fallout 1. https://www.avclub.com/which-fallout-game-should-you-play-after-the-show-1851418327 . To me, Fallout 1 is the centerpiece of the Fallout universe and none of the sequels do it justice. I get it is an old game and the game play is ancient. So I have to admit feeling deeply disappointed that it does not get the respect it deserves.

Fallout 2 is it's superior in every way.

 

[Nodder]

Hey folks, just wanted to share a story from the AV Club on Fallout that I found disturbing, largely because of the low regard given Fallout 1. https://www.avclub.com/which-fallout-game-should-you-play-after-the-show-1851418327 . To me, Fallout 1 is the centerpiece of the Fallout universe and none of the sequels do it justice. I get it is an old game and the game play is ancient. So I have to admit feeling deeply disappointed that it does not get the respect it deserves.

At least they admit these:

We’ll be honest: If this was a ranking of the best Fallout games, 2008 series reset button Fallout 3 would be a lot further down the list. The first Fallout game created by current owners Bethesda, Fallout 3 contains many of the flaws endemic to the company’s games: Simplistic plotting and relatively weak writing; occasionally grind-y gameplay; a willingness to ignore player choice in favor of easy resolutions and big spectacle.

Fallout 4 is a strange beast. An attempt to put some of the “survival” elements back into a series ostensibly about post-apocalyptic survival, the game’s story of a parent hunting for their kidnapped child commits at least one unforgivable Fallout sin: Reducing the franchise’s gorgeously convoluted conversation trees down to a series of simplistic button prompts. The result is to cut Fallout 4 off from some of the biggest strengths of the series it’s building on—the writing, and the reactivity to player choice—forcing it to instead stand as a thing apart.

 

[SquidWard]

To me, Fallout 1 is the centerpiece of the Fallout universe and none of the sequels do it justice. I get it is an old game and the game play is ancient. So I have to admit feeling deeply disappointed that it does not get the respect it deserves.

While, I agree it is disappointing you point exactly why people are afraid to recommend it. I've recommended it to people for a long time and they never seemed interested in it until recently (before the show) probably due to Baldur's Gate 3 proving that cRPGs are fine. If they do play it, they'll find it rough around the edges I'm sure but I've offered to help with any questions or frustrations they might get like not understanding the UI or which skills that you should avoid for a first playthrough, if they want that is.

Based on what they mention how they don't think it's a great starting point (assuming most players) is probably true. They might find it too unwieldly and bounce off of it to never revisit it. Give them something easier to understand through modern design and the fact that it shares elements with other games they've likely played. So all the Fallouts starting with 3 would be the easiest. I don't agree with their order still, I think New Vegas is the best one to play or if you just want to get them to try the games while also seeing what they can really be about.

If I had to order a list like that, it'd be New Vegas > any Bethesda title > 1 > 2. If they're not ready and wanting to play a 90s cRPG, then it won't stick. The only way I'd want to bump up the older titles is if I know they've played BG3 and DOS2 and/or other popular cRPGs from more recent times. That ordering has nothing to do with which I think are the best games but if you're introducing someone to a series it's best to try and make it as easy as possible on them. Interest in the series will carry them the furthest though as with anything like this.

Fallout 2 is it's superior in every way.

It's superior in content and that's about it. It has more to do.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Mad Max 1 was during societal collapse with the Main Force Patrol acting as the last vestige of law and order. The second movie is set after societal collapse and into the apocalypse. The third movie is set after a nuclear holocaust that occurs after the second movie.

Where is it established in BTD that the nuclear exchange occurred between the events of it and Road Warrior? Obviously radiation is not explicitly mentioned in Road Warrior whereas it is in BTD (irradiated water at the beginning and nuked Sydney), but it doesn't seem like that rules out a nuclear exchange.

 

[Hassknecht]

Gotta rewatch all the movies that inspired Fallout, and compare them to the Fallout TV show.

I think the main one Bethesda used as a basis was "Radioactive Dreams".
/edit:

Where is it established in BTD that the nuclear exchange occurred between the events of it and Road Warrior? Obviously radiation is not explicitly mentioned in Road Warrior whereas it is in BTD (irradiated water at the beginning and nuked Sydney), but it doesn't seem like that rules out a nuclear exchange.

George Miller said so, but beyond the tribal kids retelling that there was a nuclear war, nothing is explicit.

 

[PaxVenire]

Where is it established in BTD that the nuclear exchange occurred between the events of it and Road Warrior? Obviously radiation is not explicitly mentioned in Road Warrior whereas it is in BTD (irradiated water at the beginning and nuked Sydney), but it doesn't seem like that rules out a nuclear exchange.

It was George Miller’s original intent, but according to the wiki, it’s since been retconned in a Fury Road comic to take place shortly after Mad Max 1. Though I’m not sure weather to trust a comic over the creator.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

We are the Star Wars OT fans when the Prequels were coming out.

Now hold on, I was barely old enough to read when The Phantom Menace came out so I wasn’t hooked into Star Wars fandom, but through cultural osmosis I gathered that it seemed like every Star Wars fan hated the prequels when they were coming out. Kids like me liked it, but it wasn’t until the PrequelMemes era that a significant portion of the fandom started admitting to liking them. People that preferred Fallout 1 and 2 were a minority when Fallout 3 came out, only growing in size after the release of NV to a vocal minority.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

It was George Miller’s original intent, but according to the wiki, it’s since been retconned in a Fury Road comic to take place shortly after Mad Max 1. Though I’m not sure weather to trust a comic over the creator.

View attachment 28526

Eh, I think I prefer this reading. Doesn't really make a tremendous amount of sense to me that civilization could be AS far gone as it is in the Road Warrior and have a full nuclear exchange afterwards. The idea of a social collapse purely on the back of peak oil crisis is interesting, but if you're going to have a nuclear exchange too then it makes sense that those two events should be tied together.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

Eh, I think I prefer this reading. Doesn't really make a tremendous amount of sense to me that civilization could be AS far gone as it is in the Road Warrior and have a full nuclear exchange afterwards. The idea of a social collapse purely on the back of peak oil crisis is interesting, but if you're going to have a nuclear exchange too then it makes sense that those two events should be tied together.

Yeah, I’ve always thought this too. It really only makes sense if they’re saying that only Australia has completely collapsed by the time of Road Warrior, and then the remaining world powers wiped each other out afterward, but that makes the nuclear war rather pointless since the movies only take place in Australia anyway.

 

[PaxVenire]

Now hold on, I was barely old enough to read when The Phantom Menace came out so I wasn’t hooked into Star Wars fandom, but through cultural osmosis I gathered that it seemed like every Star Wars fan hated the prequels when they were coming out. Kids like me liked it, but it wasn’t until the PrequelMemes era that a significant portion of the fandom started admitting to liking them. People that preferred Fallout 1 and 2 were a minority when Fallout 3 came out, only growing in size after the release of NV to a vocal minority.

Man I really make myself sound like an old man, huh? I wasn’t even born when The Phantom Menace came out, I’m only 23. I do admit I like the prequel setting, especially the Clone Wars series. I mainly used Star Wars as an example of a fandom whose new entries forgot its root’s entirety and divided the fandom (which has since happened again with the Sequels).

 

[Norzan]

Now hold on, I was barely old enough to read when The Phantom Menace came out so I wasn’t hooked into Star Wars fandom, but through cultural osmosis I gathered that it seemed like every Star Wars fan hated the prequels when they were coming out. Kids like me liked it, but it wasn’t until the PrequelMemes era that a significant portion of the fandom started admitting to liking them. People that preferred Fallout 1 and 2 were a minority when Fallout 3 came out, only growing in size after the release of NV to a vocal minority.

Growing up as a teenager during the prequels, it was basically the delayed disappointment. People were genuinely hyped for the Phantom Menace and that hype was so big that they had to like the movie. It was when Attack of the Clones came out that people that started to notice the prequels were actually kind of bad all along, and by Revenge of the Sith people were memeing on how bad they are.

I vividly recall that in an episode of House (the TV show about a doctor with a busted leg), he was talking with a dude that had just out of a coma and the dude asks about Star Wars. House says that prequels had come out between the time he had fallen into coma and woken up, the dude asks if the movies were good, and House basically said they sucked. It was kind of funny.

 

[PaxVenire]

Eh, I think I prefer this reading. Doesn't really make a tremendous amount of sense to me that civilization could be AS far gone as it is in the Road Warrior and have a full nuclear exchange afterwards. The idea of a social collapse purely on the back of peak oil crisis is interesting, but if you're going to have a nuclear exchange too then it makes sense that those two events should be tied together.

Correct me if I’m wrong but it was Beyond Thunder Dome and Fury Road that introduced things like Master/Blaster, two headed lizards, tribals, nuked Sydney as you said, and the irradiated water. I think it’s fair that the nuking of the world be moved up, but in terms of what we’re shown with the movies it seems to be after Road Warrior. The intro to Road Warrior didn’t mention nukes either and it’s a weird thing to leave out. I don’t mind the change though, not complaining.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Yeah, I’ve always thought this too. It really only makes sense if they’re saying that only Australia has completely collapsed by the time of Road Warrior, and then the remaining world powers wiped each other out afterward, but that makes the nuclear war rather pointless since the movies only take place in Australia anyway.

I guess not totally pointless, Australia would get radiated somewhat from drifting fallout, and I guess there is something interesting in the idea that the whole world didn't fall at once, history proceeded for a while before coming to a more climactic end shortly thereafter.

But it just feels conceptually like a bit of a hat on a hat, and also there's the problem that in Beyond Thunder Dome Australia didn't just receive drifting fallout, it was nuked directly: Sydney was destroyed by nukes, and I believe that it was nukes that brought down the plane that the child tribe came from. If things in the interior of Australia had already devolved into the neotribal Gigarape-and-Carnage Rock n' Roll BDSM Motorocalypse, how could there have been anything worth nuking left in Sydney? There are some ways that can be made to fit, but it's rather ungainly and it's cleanest to just say the total social collapse we see in Road Warrior came some time after both Peak Oil and a nuclear exchange.

Correct me if I’m wrong but it was Beyond Thunder Dome and Fury Road that introduced things like Master/Blaster, two headed lizards, tribals, nuked Sydney as you said, and the irradiated water. I think it’s fair that the nuking of the world be moved up, but in terms of what we’re shown with the movies it seems to be after Road Warrior. The intro to Road Warrior didn’t mention nukes either and it’s a weird thing to leave out. I don’t mind the change though, not complaining.

You're right, evidence of nuclear war is mostly confined to Beyond Thunder Dome, though perhaps with one exception - I do recall Lord Humungous having weird growths or tumors or something despite otherwise being in excellent physical shape, which I always took to be from radiation. But otherwise there's not much evidence, and perhaps I'm misremembering, so perhaps that was Miller's original intention.

 

[Hassknecht]

It was George Miller’s original intent, but according to the wiki, it’s since been retconned in a Fury Road comic to take place shortly after Mad Max 1. Though I’m not sure weather to trust a comic over the creator.

View attachment 28526

Personally I see Fury Road as a sort of soft reboot and not really part of the original trilogy.

Now hold on, I was barely old enough to read when The Phantom Menace came out so I wasn’t hooked into Star Wars fandom, but through cultural osmosis I gathered that it seemed like every Star Wars fan hated the prequels when they were coming out. Kids like me liked it, but it wasn’t until the PrequelMemes era that a significant portion of the fandom started admitting to liking them. People that preferred Fallout 1 and 2 were a minority when Fallout 3 came out, only growing in size after the release of NV to a vocal minority.

Man, I was massively into Star Wars when the prequels came out and had devoured the EU books I could get from the library. I was already disappointed when the Clone Wars were less cool than the Zahn books hinted at them to be.
I played Fallout 1 first and was already disappointed by 2 to some degree, and more and more disappointed when Van Buren was pushed back in favour of other games.
I loved Star Trek and then they rebooted the movies and they suckes. Then they did a new show and it sucked.
I loved Morrowind back then and was disappointed by Oblivion. When Bethesda went to do Fallout 3 I knew what was going to happen.
All my favourite franchises ended up disappointing me.

I guess not totally pointless, Australia would get radiated somewhat from drifting fallout, and I guess there is something interesting in the idea that the whole world didn't fall at once, history proceeded for a while before coming to a more climactic end shortly thereafter.

But it just feels conceptually like a bit of a hat on a hat, and also there's the problem that in Beyond Thunder Dome Australia didn't just receive drifting fallout, it was nuked directly: Sydney was destroyed by nukes, and I believe that it was nukes that brought down the plane that the child tribe came from. If things in the interior of Australia had already devolved into the neotribal Gigarape-and-Carnage Rock n' Roll BDSM Motorocalypse, how could there have been anything worth nuking left in Sydney? There are some ways that can be made to fit, but it's rather ungainly and it's cleanest to just say the total social collapse we see in Road Warrior came some time after both Peak Oil and a nuclear exchange.


You're right, evidence of nuclear war is mostly confined to Beyond Thunder Dome, though perhaps with one exception - I do recall Lord Humungous having weird growths or tumors or something despite otherwise being in excellent physical shape, which I always took to be from radiation. But otherwise there's not much evidence, and perhaps I'm misremembering, so perhaps that was Miller's original intention.

I think he was just burned under the mask.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

I guess not totally pointless, Australia would get radiated somewhat from drifting fallout

Yeah, after I posted I was thinking it could be like an On The Beach scenario. Except, you know, not everyone dies.

I think he was just burned under the mask.

This is it. Fun fact, he was originally supposed to be Goose from the first movie, who we last see (well, who Max last sees) horribly burnt in a hospital. This is also why a lot of his gang drives police cruisers. They were supposed to mostly be made up of the remaining cops from their police department. I’m not really sure why Miller eventually decided against this.

 

[Hassknecht]

Yeah, after I posted I was thinking it could be like an On The Beach scenario. Except, you know, not everyone dies.

This is it. Fun fact, he was originally supposed to be Goose from the first movie, who we last see (well, who Max last sees) horribly burnt in a hospital. This is also why a lot of his gang drives police cruisers. They were supposed to mostly be made up of the remaining cops from their police department. I’m not really sure why Miller eventually decided against this.

Humungus gang was pretty cool. Lots of details in all the different gang subgroups. Former cops, former military... generally the costume design had some insane details. Love the movies.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

This is it. Fun fact, he was originally supposed to be Goose from the first movie, who we last see (well, who Max last sees) horribly burnt in a hospital. This is also why a lot of his gang drives police cruisers. They were supposed to mostly be made up of the remaining cops from their police department. I’m not really sure why Miller eventually decided against this.

Yeah I recalled the Goose theory when Hassknecht posted that.

I do think it was good that it wasn't officially Goose - that would have ended up turning the franchise into something about Max personally, rather than having Max as this wandering hero visiting diverse locales and getting in new adventures, which is what the franchise became first with BTD, and cemented with Fury Road. Maybe it would have been fine if it had gone for a more "narrative" and Max-focused approach (and indeed that would have aligned better with the first Mad Max, which is a very personal story and really quite dissonant with the rest of the franchise), but I like what it ended up being.

 

[PaxVenire]

Fun fact, he was originally supposed to be Goose from the first movie, who we last see (well, who Max last sees) horribly burnt in a hospital. This is also why a lot of his gang drives police cruisers. They were supposed to mostly be made up of the remaining cops from their police department. I’m not really sure why Miller eventually decided against this.

I’m glad he decided against this. It’s too tropey, a former good cop gone evil and would’ve been a hell of a stretch. Besides I doubt the guy who almost killed Johnny Boy in the MFP station for raping that one girl in Mad Max 1 would be okay with running a gang of rapists in Road Warrior.

 

[Hawkwing74]

Now hold on, I was barely old enough to read when The Phantom Menace came out so I wasn’t hooked into Star Wars fandom, but through cultural osmosis I gathered that it seemed like every Star Wars fan hated the prequels when they were coming out. Kids like me liked it, but it wasn’t until the PrequelMemes era that a significant portion of the fandom started admitting to liking them. People that preferred Fallout 1 and 2 were a minority when Fallout 3 came out, only growing in size after the release of NV to a vocal minority.

I used to serve tables at a local restaurant when Phantom Menace came out. A 10 year old kid who, with his mother, was a regular, came in, and was gushing that Phantom Menace was the greatest movie ever made.

I could remember at the time thinking it was plodding, Jar Jar was extremely annoying, but I liked the stuff with Darth Maul. Now, I can barely watch it. But it's still superior to 7-9.

I like parts of Ep 2 and I actually really like Ep 3 but I know that position is not popular. I stopped watching before Ep. 8 when it became clear that they were wrecking the whole thing.

 

[PaxVenire]

I actually really like Ep 3 but I know that position is not popular.

It's actually very popular, at least nowadays.