The Forests in Oblivion, The Wastes in Fallout

[thefatness]

Has anyone here seen the Oblivion trailer? It talks a lot about the technology they developed for it, like how they went and studied at a geology lab for a while just to make those forests look and feel real. I think this is what they will do in Fallout for all the random encounters (if there will be any depending if it's FPS or not) like decaying buildings, rubble and just plain cool environments. I also think that radiant AI idea isn't that bad at all for Fallout(better than them just standing around all day), it may even make it better(imagine Fallout 1/2 with radiant AI on NPC's). Anyways, Fallout 3 will probably have plenty to explore, but either way Fallout 3 is going to be Fallout 3 and Bethesda's going to make it.

 

[Pop]

I suppose the environs in Fallout 3, wilderness-wise, will probably resemble a better-looking version of the badlands in Morrowind, with some added rusted metal, ruined cars, etc. I myself am relishing the thought of a decrepit highways, complete with fields of car/bus husks and perilous, decaying overpasses. Should make for some difficult battles, at the very least.

 

[Duckman]

I suppose the environs in Fallout 3, wilderness-wise, will probably resemble a better-looking version of the badlands in Morrowind, with some added rusted metal, ruined cars, etc. I myself am relishing the thought of a decrepit highways, complete with fields of car/bus husks and perilous, decaying overpasses. Should make for some difficult battles, at the very least.

Yeah, this does sound good. But let's hope it ain't gunna be a Morrowind with guns and the wasteland. Although, what I am picturing in my head does look great, based on what you said, it doesn't resemble FO.

 

[Francis]

Well, they can do badlands and ruined cities and all that. They did make those Terminator games which were cool in that respect. Incidently those were produced by one T. Howard. Of course those were FPS not RPGs, but I think at least in terms of atmosphere of the environment, of landscape design etc there isn't a big problem here.

One might think they'd try to somehow fit their pretty trees in, but I don't they'll do that.

 

[Tagaziel]

*casts summon Roshambo spell*

*runs*

Wouldn't it be actually cheaper and more efficent to get the Source engine and tweak it to fit S.P.E.C.I.A.L.? Oblivion is suited for Oblivion's RPG rules etc., while, which was proven by Bloodlines, Source is much more flexible. And already has the needed feel to it (Highway 17, City 17 during the Uprising, Black Mesa East, the canals...)

Anyways, I'll better run.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Oblivion is suited for Oblivion's RPG rules etc., while, which was proven by Bloodlines, Source is much more flexible.

Bloodlines is a bad example. Troika twisted the shit out of the ruleset in order to adapt it to FPS combat. One might say that the Storyteller System was adjusted for Source engine and not vice versa.

On the other hand, here is the list of games that use GameBryo engine:

* Axis & Allies - 2004, Windows, Atari, Inc.
* Dark Age of Camelot - 2001, Windows, Abandon Entertainment/Vivendi Universal Games
* Dark Age of Camelot: Catacombs - 2005, Windows, Mythic Entertainment, Inc./Wanadoo Edition
* Dark Age of Camelot: Shrouded Isles - 2002, Windows, Vivendi Universal Games, Inc./Wanadoo Edition
* Dark Age of Camelot: Trials of Atlantis - 2004, Windows, Wanadoo Edition
* The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - 2002, Windows/Xbox, Bethesda Softworks LLC/Ubisoft Entertainment
* The Elder Scrolls III: Tribunal Expansion - 2002 Windows/Xbox, Bethesda Softworks LLC/Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
* The Elder Scrolls III: Bloodmoon Expansion - 2002 Windows/Xbox, Bethesda Softworks LLC/Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
* The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - 2006, Windows/Xbox 360, Bethesda Softworks LLC/2K Games
* Empire Earth II - 2005, Windows, Sierra Entertainment, Inc.
* Freedom Force - 2002, Windows, Crave Entertainment, Inc./Electronic Arts Inc.
* Freedom Force vs The 3rd Reich - 2005, Windows, Vivendi Universal Games, Inc.
* Knight's Apprentice, Memorick's Adventures - 2004, Xbox, XS Games LLC
* Kohan II: Kings of War - 2004, Windows, Gathering/Global Star Software Inc./Take 2 Interactive
* Playboy: The Mansion - 2005, PlayStation 2/Windows/Xbox, ARUSH Entertainment
* Project Entropia - 2003, Windows, MindArk PE AB
* Sid Meier's Civilization IV - 2005, Windows, 2K Games
* Sid Meier's Pirates! - 2004, Windows/Xbox, 2K Games/Atari, Inc.
* Traitors Gate 2: Cypher - 2003, Windows, The Adventure Company
* Zoo Tycoon 2 - 2004, Windows, Microsoft Game Studios

You were saying something about inflexibility?

 

[Roshambo]

Has anyone here seen the Oblivion trailer? It talks a lot about the technology they developed for it,

Which is hardly impressive.

like how they went and studied at a geology lab for a while just to make those forests look and feel real.

WHERE?! At the Bob Ross School of Nose Candy and Happy Trees? They should have simply taken a look at how Pirahna Bytes did their landscapes versus Bethesda's craptacular RNG job in Morrowind, saved a lot of money, and might have had time to work on far more important things. Like the shitty AI and the rest of the game.

I also think that radiant AI idea isn't that bad at all for Fallout(better than them just standing around all day), it may even make it better(imagine Fallout 1/2 with radiant AI on NPC's).

So instead of the whore-mafia warfare in Fallout 2, where an accidental hit by a mafia person on a prostitute in combat will trigger all of them to attack in a small army, it could be even worse?

No thanks. They have a LONG ways to go with this before their scheduling and simulation routines can retroactively compete with those found in...say...Ultima VII. In fact, the scheduling and simulation found in either that game or Gothic would be far preferable. Yes, Gothic again beats the shit out of Bethesda's "work".

Hell, even most MMOGs have guard AI that beats the shit out of Oblivion's. How the fuck did they become that incompetent to pull THAT off? It takes EFFORT to fuck up that badly.

Anyways, Fallout 3 will probably have plenty to explore,

In the same 3 templated ruins randomized into dozens more "locations"!

but either way Fallout 3 is going to be Fallout 3 and Bethesda's going to make it.

I'm looking for it to be the same uninspired steaming pile as Oblivious, since it is said to be like it by Todd's own words, when anyone familiar with Fallout could tell you that it's location-based, not an open-world construct like TES. This spells bad things for the speech and other aspects if Todd is viewing the worlds as nearly the same.

 

[thefatness]

Well, on the bright side Bethesda might learn from their mistakes in Oblivion, and not make Falout 3 nearly as glitchy(which is good for us fallout fans ). It's not like they're making an exact copy of Oblivion, which means it may be ...better?... than Oblivion...

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Well, on the bright side Bethesda might learn from their mistakes in Oblivion

Like they learned from mistakes of Morrowind, you mean?

 

[thefatness]

Rattus Rattus[/i]]

Well, on the bright side Bethesda might learn from their mistakes in Oblivion

Like they learned from mistakes of Morrowind, you mean?

You have to admit, Oblivion is a lot better game than Morrowind was(except story maybe).

 

[Duckman]

I guess whilst Rosh was away, we all just expected that someone would just blast the n00b posts, but no one actually did.

I'm glad you are back man.

 

[PhredBean]

Rattus Rattus[/i]]

Well, on the bright side Bethesda might learn from their mistakes in Oblivion

Like they learned from mistakes of Morrowind, you mean?

You have to admit, Oblivion is a lot better game than Morrowind was(except story maybe).

Comparing two pieces of shit together never really establishes anything. They may have learned a few lessons here and there (which I'm saying to be gracious, since I can't think of a damn mistake from Morrowind they didn't make in Oblivion, save the damn cliff racers), but they failed in so many other places.

They claim to have learned their lesson on shitty encyclopedic dialog when they were hyping Oblivion. But what did we get in Oblivion? The same shitty encyclopedic dialog but with Patrick Stewart voice acting it. Fuck, yeah! Patrick Stewart! Glad that's fixed.

They say they fixed various problems with ecology (many people complained about the nonsensical way animals were placed in regard to terrain), they looked into flora, fauna, soil erosion (wtf?)... then placed animals whereever the hell they thought one didn't fit. And then made it WORSE by making animals and animal types level with you. So instead of a wolf being in a horrendously stupid spot no animal has any business being, when you hit lvl 20, you got a bear waiting there for you.

There's dozens more examples, but you wouldn't get the damn point anyway.

Beth has learned nothing, innovated nothing, fixed nothing. They're creatively bankrupt. Good thing for them one doesn't require imagination to breath or they'd all have asphyxiated by now.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

re: RadiantAI
I was at the supermarket and all these folks (myself) included were standing around the deli counter waiting. Is it really necessary for me to follow them home and watch them go about their daily routine (sweeping the driveway with a iron hoe, lighting the dog on fire) to convince me that they`re actually real human beings, and not some clones that stand around the deli counter 24-7? Bethesda, how bout focusing on compelling dialgue, story and gamepay insead of gimmicky, over-hyped, talking point features (we`ve got HAVOK, we`ve got soil erosion) that are just shallow wankery.

 

[thefatness]

we all just expected that someone would just blast the n00b posts

Yes, blasting my posts away all right, blasting them with useless, biased answers that could not be backed up by ANY information except for your own biased thoughts about how much the guys making Fallout 3 are "so dumb" and "can't make a game". When in actuality you have no reason to hate fallout 3, but should be thankful that someone is actually making it and that you idiots actually have something to bitch and complain about other than fallout 1, 2, Tactics and BOS. I see no reason to hate Fallout 3, I was merely saying that Fallout 3 will probably have some kind of randomized areas in it and that they could help make the game more fun than you people think it will be.

 

[PhredBean]

we all just expected that someone would just blast the n00b posts

I see no reason to hate Fallout 3, I was merely saying that Fallout 3 will probably have some kind of randomized areas in it and that they could help make the game more fun than you people think it will be.

WTF?! Those randomized areas were the worst damn thing Oblivion had to offer. Those randomized areas were supposed to be TESs version of hell and they were, but not in the way Beth intended.

 

[zioburosky13]

Yes, blasting my posts away all right...

You will hate Fallout 3 when it's going to be like this.

Given that Todd is still the producer of the game, I predict the game could be a POS. Just look at what he had done to TES series. Now his screwing his company's own Ip.

 

[Kahgan]

best picture evar!

 

[Duckman]

Awesome pic.

And @thefatness I wasn't speaking directly to you, just misplaced new people who believe that Oblivion will be the new Fallout and it will teh oresomeness lolzors

 

[SuAside]

Yes, blasting my posts away all right, blasting them with useless, biased answers that could not be backed up by ANY information except for your own biased thoughts about how much the guys making Fallout 3 are "so dumb" and "can't make a game"

some people have been fucked over too many times to be a cheerful optimist.

you say we have no reason to be pessimistic? we say you have absolutely no reason to be optimistic.

as for what exactly our arguments are? we've discussed those enough already, but fine, i'll humor you & give you a glimpse...

sidenote:

When in actuality you have no reason to hate fallout 3, but should be thankful that someone is actually making it and that you idiots actually have something to bitch and complain about other than fallout 1, 2, Tactics and BOS.

you might want to refrain from calling us idiots on our own turf. rather go to the quarter to three forum & join the flock (but dont forget to check your brain at the entrance, you wont need it there).

I was merely saying that Fallout 3 will probably have some kind of randomized areas in it and that they could help make the game more fun than you people think it will be.

Fallout is a location-based game. traveling from those locations is long, dangerous & painful. encounters during this traveling are relatively randomised within certain parameters.

however, when you say randomized areas in relation to The Empty Scrolls: Oblivious, we think of endless amounts of the same dungeons over & over. no matter what enemy type they put inthere, no matter what bling bling artifacts you put inthere, it always feels exactly the same.

this is something we dont want & certainly dont need in FO3. do you really want to raid 200 'randomized' raider dens to get ze bling bling lewtz? i dont. FO is no dungeoncrawler.

Has anyone here seen the Oblivion trailer? It talks a lot about the technology they developed for it, like how they went and studied at a geology lab for a while just to make those forests look and feel real.

as pointed out before, this is wasted time (if they even really did take a field trip to a geology lab, which i doubt). what you do instead is find high res pictures of a forest you want to emulate & you study that. for the soil you give the work to a skilled leveldesigner. what did the 'realistic' soil-crap give to Oblivion? nothing. it just made weapons & corpses tumble all the way down a hill. getting your loot was just a waste of time.

the time you save by using pictures & a designer, you use for things that actually matter: gameplay, immersion, content.

I think this is what they will do in Fallout for all the random encounters (if there will be any depending if it's FPS or not) like decaying buildings, rubble and just plain cool environments.

maybe you didnt notice, but just mentioning that FO3 could be 'FPS' is stabbing everyone on this forum straight in the heart.

and yes, everyone wants cool random encounters & setting. but sadly, beth hasnt showed us any of those yet really. what use is a nice forest to walk in if you dont have any worthwhile content or gameplay?

I also think that radiant AI idea isn't that bad at all for Fallout(better than them just standing around all day), it may even make it better(imagine Fallout 1/2 with radiant AI on NPC's).

ah, radiant ai.

the most overhyped AI in the history of the game industry. (and thats saying a lot)

so, what do we've got here?

- NPC's you need to escort walk straight into traps. no wait, not walk. they RUN straight for it. (cant help to think of the Martyr's hysterical laughter in Dark Reign 1)
- Imperial Forrester NPC's doing some bow practise on a target 5 meter away & hits once & misses 14 times. yup, no wonder these morons cant defend against an invasion.
- 2 NPC's hunting for the same deer, one hits the other by accident. they fight eachother SAVAGELY until they reach a certain disengage timer or kill eachother before the timer expires. if they survive, they walk away as best friends.
- guards murdering random NPC's (well not exactly murdering, they just faint anyway, who cares)
- guards with X-ray vision, capable of seeing through stone walls & able to see exactly which gear is stolen.
- when you kill someone & take their gear, you have to pay a fine but keep the gear. if you steal from someone, you loose the gear have to pay a fine.
- killing an imperial trooper costs you 1050G, after which you get released. must be nice for the guards to know their life is worth 1050G to the governement, but no further sentence. what is this? the US? money buys you out of everything, how nice...

sure, in FO you could rob most houses of irrelevant NPC's blind without them reacting, but i'd prefer that over zomg X-ray vision & psychic medium guards.
and really, scripted timebased routines have been around forever, dont say radiant ai is much better than that, it really isnt.

Anyways, Fallout 3 will probably have plenty to explore,

zomg? exploration in a FO game? never!

good catch, einstein...

but either way Fallout 3 is going to be Fallout 3 and Bethesda's going to make it.

o rly?

you dont say...

does that mean we have to buy the vaseline & let good ol' Todd pick up the ass on us?

thefatness, good doggy, roll over & play dead...

Well, on the bright side Bethesda might learn from their mistakes in Oblivion, and not make Falout 3 nearly as glitchy(which is good for us fallout fans Very Happy). It's not like they're making an exact copy of Oblivion, which means it may be ...better?... than Oblivion...

You have to admit, Oblivion is a lot better game than Morrowind was(except story maybe).

Beth has a longlasting history of ignoring the obvious & not learning from mistakes.

and honnestly, i'd rather take a buggy game with content than an empty shiny shell.

 

[Roshambo]

Yes, blasting my posts away all right, blasting them with useless, biased answers that could not be backed up by ANY information except for your own biased thoughts about how much the guys making Fallout 3 are "so dumb" and "can't make a game".

How about the FACTS right in their own development style (Oblivion and previous), words they've said (including designing Fallout 3 for the consoles, which Oblivion was little but a crap PC port), and the general spin-doctoring around when the initial announcements, etc. were made?

In fact, to believe that Bethesda would do CONTRARY to their established development style and manner is a far larger leap of logic.

When in actuality you have no reason to hate fallout 3, but should be thankful that someone is actually making it and that you idiots actually have something to bitch and complain about other than fallout 1, 2, Tactics and BOS.

I would rather see Fallout die than see someone else botch it again. Or were you one of the self-delusioned idiots that bought FOS expecting the same from the same brand of marketing logic?

I see no reason to hate Fallout 3, I was merely saying that Fallout 3 will probably have some kind of randomized areas in it and that they could help make the game more fun than you people think it will be.

Randomized = shit in TES. So how does Fallout's UNIQUE locations benefit from randomization? Care to validate what seems to be a fucking idiotic idea given Fallout's design, or are you ready to take the Bethesda cock out of your mouth?