The Legion is the best option for the wasteland

TomJ said:
Mr. House if he is anything, its strategic. If he were to ever use the Followers for anything, he would do it on his time, not theirs. Meaning he'd wait till Vegas was secured then do something with them. And if they're willing to compromise with the Garretts, they might be willing to be less anarchistic to get access to things. Also, when House talks about his plans, he never made it seem like there would be people involved, it was all abstract. He may have knowledge and a robot army, but micromanaging that must be taxing mentally. And who else has expertise do do anything besides the Followers? The BoS? They only want weapons and would rise up the first chance they get. The Followers are at least not as married to their ideology to the same extent the BoS is. There aren't that many people on the Strip that are actual residents and the Vault dwellers are gone from what is shown in game. People from surrounding towns will need to be educated to be useful. Also, with the NCR and Legion gone, who's going to keep the Fiends and other Raiders at bay? One thing Legion and NCR patrols do is keep the Raiders down. Without them, some force would be needed to make commerce safe and some puppet state is the next logical step.
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The thing is that Mister House is an unempathetic dick. He's basically the Ayn Randian wet dream. He's a brilliant genius who ignores the common man and nonetheless still feels he's the one who is going to be holding up the world on his shoulders. The truth is that he's an exploitative robber baron and his basic plan is to get the NCR so economically dependent in the long run that he's too big to fail. If he can turn the Californian wastes into the picturesque image of middle class America, there is no way the NCR is just going to let foreign enemies roll over him.

The catch is that he actually seems to have a pretty good chance of actually achieving what he promises. His mathematical predictions about the future are uncannily accurate and he's achieved immortality. And if a bunch of ghouls get get some space rockets working, then what can House achieve given enough time and resources?

He's appealing in the sense that, if you can get him to stop pouring concrete into people's homes and actually get him to actually improve conditions in Freeside and not just slaughtering everybody he has contempt for, then the outlook is actually pretty cheery. It's a fine line between using people as instruments to an end and treating them as an end here-and-now. The promise of a perfect tomorrow is not useful to the people are suffering now. And I feel no moral obligation to people who might never exist.

Also he probably really hates poor people. So they need not apply to his capitalistic utopia.
So despite both the Followers and House being technocrats, it isn't really surprising that they both hate one another.
 
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You boys know that the chaps over at shoddycast had a whole video on this as to why the legion would make the NCR pay, but would ultimately lose right? It's a fun video, informative... And insightful, they crunch a shit ton of numbers and even talk about some of the issues brought up here.

My thoughts are pretty much theirs but, say Vegas and Mo-post fall, Cool beans, easy legion win right? No! Now they are in enemy territory, sure they could have sent scouts 'n' spies, but a few quick glances and notes are nothing compared to local knowledge, one of the reason my ancestors were such a thorn in side of the pale faces.. Er, pilgrims, If they knew the land better, where to hunt, where to hide, and where to watch is just as important as any other part of military planning. Its one of the reasons Laden was so hard to find for a while despite our over reliance on drones and other gizmos.

Now also, yeah sure, maybe the legion does outnumber the NCR, or maybe its the opposite, Point is there is a saying 'Even a mosquito can defeat an army'. So even if one side hugely outclasses the others in the number game, there are tons more variables that will fuddle those numbers. 'Murica 2.0's factories and ability to make more guns and ammo. As we see with the Boomers, Arty still lives in the world of Fallouts , so its very easy to assume that the NCR has some form of STC to make more, we see that they installed cannon on the damned dam for arties sake. Point to Murica cosplyin' NCR

Now for the legion, they are a very nimble army, not as agile as the NCR with trucks and plane, but they are, or at least can be, fairly lightweight. A man carrying a sword and a leather segmintata can surly run a lot longer than the same man lugging a 6-15 pound rifle, the ammunition for said rifle, body armor, pants, and what ever he might have in his pockets (trinkets from home, food, blah blah blah.) It's also stated they have a ton of slave power, so as long as they don't work them to death, it could be possible for the Romans to quickly extend their lines to follow the runners ahead of them, they also can be employed to build old style siege weapons (Really, a trebuchet is not that hard to build and you can find the blueprints for them online, Its a safe bet Ceaser read about them in books.) A point to the Sport equipment Romans.

In terms of which is better for the Mojave? All options really suck, you have the egotistical leaders of all the factions, House is self obsessed, Kimball is aloof, and Ceaser is... Um.. Yeah, dying, they are all pretty shitty leaders. I guess it boils down to 'Do you want to loose your head for saying this country sucks, or do you want to pay a 300 cap fine?' Bad example I am sure, I'm a very stoned Super mutant right now. Point is both sides could possible beat the other, both sides suck/rule for their own nifty cool reasons

Anyways, All in all, I put my money on the Vipers, they'll make a come back! (I kid of course, am I cool now?)
 
Doomsdayprepper said:
I stole 2 of his paras with his consent and debunked the trade war tosh and securitron stuff myself. Bow before me plebian, you lost.

But seriously are you going to? We should revive the thread from its deadness.
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Actually you didn't debunk the trade war thing, you basically ignored my argument and thought I meant a direct invasion of all the things. Coming from the guy that said House had a securitron factory just because.
 
I too prefer the Legion, at least in the context of the post-post-apocalyptic setting.

They're brutal but efficient, and have proven themselves able to adapt and overcome whatever challenges the wasteland throws at them. We get to see how flexible they are, switching tactics when necessary, for example, at the Second Battle of Hoover Dam. We are told (unfortunately not shown due to time restraints) how they have carved a functioning society out of the chaotic remains of the Four States Commonwealth.

If they were to take control of New Vegas and all its resources--walled city, weapons manufacturing plant, clinics, steel mill, farmlands, etc., as well as assimilate former denizens of the NCR and Mojave as skilled laborers--the Legion, with its propensity to acclimatize in order to survive and thrive in the wastes, could do a whole helluva lot with the region in the long run.

Not to say that folks in the Mojave would be better off--they'll be steamrolled. However the Legion itself would certainly benefit in the long run. Omelettes and broken eggs and all that.

Once Caesar is gone, however, the inevitable rot will begin to set in a la Tandi and the NCR. How long his Pax Romana lasts after that all depends on just how much he settled his little empire before he kicks the bucket.

In the end, it's all a crapshoot with any of the major factions. My money is on the Legion getting more bang for the buck out of the region in the long run.
 
I never approached the choice of faction from the angle of "who's da best", but simply who's the best fit for the character I decide to play, so I'm not really all that interested in coming up with wild theories on "for what possible benefit/cost" I might choose the faction I choose.

But regarding the game and the possible future fiction of the Mojave (and around) setting, I find the Legion to be the most creatively interesting choice.
 
Kohno said:
I never approached the choice of faction from the angle of "who's da best", but simply who's the best fit for the character I decide to play, so I'm not really all that interested in coming up with wild theories on "for what possible benefit/cost" I might choose the faction I choose.

But regarding the game and the possible future fiction of the Mojave (and around) setting, I find the Legion to be the most creatively interesting choice.
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My pure and honest approach was two fold
1. NCR nostalgia, I just... like them, I like the idea of them steadily expanding. I like that they are far from perfect, and I also like that they are not the spreadders-of-all-things-nice as their propaganda would imply. They have a natural, honest fallibleness about them. A general anti-slavery stance is their main contrast against Legion.

2. Legion outfits, I just didn't like it. My very first momentary impression is: Soldiers who dress-up and pretend to be another type of soldier, disregarding necesity and practicality, are immature soldiers. Legion struck me as "playing war", as opposed to NCR who strike me as "trying to govern"

Mr. House never appealed to me, because he is outrightly dictatorial from the start, and even after he unveils his robots, I'm never really convinced they'll do much. Hell, I can wipe out most of his robots on my own, so, mad-man's ambitions. I end up always leaning towards NCR, almost intuitively
 
I found NCR (in New Vegas) to be the sort of boring(ish) off the shelf G.I.Joe faction. It never strook me as anything really interesting. That's probably the reason I ended up switching to Legion mid game in my first run (and House on my second).
 
Kohno said:
I found NCR (in New Vegas) to be the sort of boring(ish) off the shelf G.I.Joe faction. It never strook me as anything really interesting. That's probably the reason I ended up switching to Legion mid game in my first run (and House on my second).
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Yeah, the NCR do look a bit boring, I'll give you that. I never really liked their uniforms or their helmets, which seemed too WW1-ish. Combat armor would make much more sense since that's what they all wore in FO2 - and it woulda looked much more bad-ass
 
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