The most badass mofos around

Zeal said:
Well, germany was beaten by "general Winter", if it wasn’t for him, the allies in both fronts wouldn’t be so successful, if not at all.
I am sorry to say it but that is not a correct statement (if just said that way without explanation).

The way how you describe it is seen today at least from a historical point as obsolete. The reasons why Germany loost the battle in WW2 have been plenty. One has to make a difference though between indidividual battles and the whole war though. When seen on the whole war the conditions of the weather just threated the Soviets and Americans just as much as it did the Germans (see the Battle of the Buldge for example). Its not like The Germans have been the only ones loosing tanks, locomotives and men to the cold conditions the same issue was counted many times on the soviet side the important point is just that when the German force was loosing a tank it had a different effect on them as when the Soviets or US loost one tank or plane or what ever particularly since most of the German equipment was complicated in manufacture and had to be moved across half of Europe. It is a old view in history about WW2 that the "General Winter" tourned the tide of the war, actualy most historians today blieve that Germany loost already the opportunity in 1941 completely after the first day of attack on the Sovietunion particularly when looking about the German financial situation in Germany itself and its economy. Germany was past 1933 extremly indepted the war was the only thing that saved Germany from totall economical colapse and that just in time (which Hitler knew) hence why They started attacking Poland in 1939 since already a few months later Germany would have been bankrupt and not even the annexion of Austria and Czechoslovakia before the war saved them from it.

41 proved to be a fatal situation for the German Military but so did it for the Soviet union, they loost many men and equipment cause of the winter. But it did not caused a colapse of the German efforts and war which had many different reasons (which one was more important is today still a matter of debate). Infact between 41 and 43 Germany had its bigest territorial expansion in the east. Serious historians today even say that if Germany would have attacked Russia 5 weeks earlier like the original date was set and eventualy avoided the Winterwarefare of 41 without the delay in Greece caused by the Italian looses against the British forces Germany would still have loost the War in the east.

The winter in 41 was also not a unusual early or strong one, for the time and area it was a pretty common weather. A lot of things are exagerated about it. That doesnt mean the looses have not been heavy, the Germans loost on a daily basis more people cause of coldness then to enemy fire, but one should also remember that in conditions of -40° the russians did not attacked everyday. The russians just had as much trouble like the Germans to keep their tanks runing in such cold conditions for example.
 
Well the Soviets were used and more prepared to those harsh conditions, but i take my hat to you sir.

Indeed, it is know nowdays it was a bad decision from day 1 to attack the soviets, but "general winter" was surely a significant advantage for the Soviets.

Anyway, you are completely right, it was a summatory of factors, and that´s why i think you cant compare to action packed movies, were usually is just a machine gun toe to toe with an army.

Anyway, your text and analysis were very well done, great answear. :) 5/5
 
lugaru said:
Never gets mentioned in U.S. History because he is Mexican-American (and was made white in the movie) but check out Guy Gabaldon.
You want to talk unappreciated badassery due to racism, I think Daniel Inoue and the Nisei have him beat. I don't remember beaners given the choice between service or internment camps.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
lugaru said:
Never gets mentioned in U.S. History because he is Mexican-American (and was made white in the movie) but check out Guy Gabaldon.
You want to talk unappreciated badassery due to racism, I think Daniel Inoue and the Nisei have him beat. I don't remember beaners given the choice between service or internment camps.

Not exactly unapreciated, they gave him a medal of honor, althought it looks like his service certainly merits it. So what's up with the slur anyways? I guess the internet has been a boon for people who will never get laid to look at boobs and for cowardly people to experiment with being offensive without getting beat up.
 
lugaru said:
Not exactly unapreciated, they gave him a medal of honor, althought it looks like his service certainly merits it. \
He got his MOH ~50 years later, somewhat delayed recognition. Meanwhile, while he was saving Texans (probably some "Mexican-Americans" included) their families were in internment camps. We were at war with Japan, a lot more animosity was directed at them since Pearl Harbor - we've had some distance put between us and the fucking Alamo now.
And why do you associate shame with enjoying beans? I mean there's the farting thing, but that's not exclusive to any particular race I don't think. BTW - I get laid quite frequently from my hot wife who was employed as a hostess and has done swimsuit modeling - still no excuse for me not to enjoy boobs though.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
And why do you associate shame with enjoying beans?

Acting dumb does not make one look much better, I mean are you seriosly asking for a grade school talk about how some terms are loaded and how they can be offensive due to the decades of racist policy and violence that forged them?

God, it is like that co-worker I had back in my food industry days who would call me wetback and say "no, it's ok, you can make jokes about me being irish!" "No, go on your break, grow up, then clean the bathroom".

Like I said, the internet is a great place for people to get a thrill by being edgy, you must be a hoot on voice chat during multiplayer games.

Also I'm having a hard time doing this with a straight face so I'll bite... "well my girlfriend was a booth babe for the Wii!".

Either way the whole Alamo thing was over forcing texans to liberate their slaves (which was illegal in Mexico, and Texas was a mexican state) but I guess the place being founded on racism does not mean they cannot appreciate when a non white does them proud.
 
I'm not gonna believe some guy captured 1,000 japanese soldiers, that's just a very rediculous claim, especially since, like someone even said earlier, the japanese didn't even wanna surrender after the nuke.
 
Thanks Crni Vuk this was a pretty interesting read. I don't understand why some of theses members are arguing about nothing.
 
lugaru said:
You clearly lack objectivity as it relates to Mexican-Americans if you think what they faced during WWII is comparable to what the Nisei faced, and what they accomplished. Highest decorated unit in US history, all the while their families were in internment camps. That's a little different then having your feelings hurt because of an association with a popular food. Or were there some frijole pogroms carried out I'm not aware of. Rest your sphincter.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
lugaru said:
You clearly lack objectivity as it relates to Mexican-Americans if you think what they faced during WWII is comparable to what the Nisei faced, and what they accomplished. Highest decorated unit in US history, all the while their families were in internment camps. That's a little different then having your feelings hurt because of an association with a popular food. Or were there some frijole pogroms carried out I'm not aware of. Rest your sphincter.

You clearly lack any concept of what a one sided argument is. I'm not saying that Gabaldon is better than anyone, I'm not saying that the other guy doesent deserves his medal. If anything your getting mad that I'm not playing along with you or something and that I'm pointing out that your grasp on race is childish, instead of getting all offended.

Am I missing something here or do I just not get what you are mad about?
 
The Raging Russian said:
I'm not gonna believe some guy captured 1,000 japanese soldiers, that's just a very rediculous claim, especially since, like someone even said earlier, the japanese didn't even wanna surrender after the nuke.
Thats not completely accurate.

While in general it was true that japenese soldiers usualy did not surrendered, in some cases they did, particularly in the last periods of the war like in the battle of Okinawa which made it self not only special cause of the extremly heavy fighting but also for one of the very few "mass" surrenders by japanese troops.

"This was also the first battle in the war in which surrendering Japanese were made into POWs by the thousands. Many of the Japanese prisoners were native Okinawans who had been impressed into the Army shortly before the battle and were less imbued with the Japanese Army's no-surrender doctrine"

It was not a common thing, but it happend sometimes. Though numbers are usualy very small, for example from the more then 22 000 Japanese soldiers deployed on Iwo Jima eventualy only 1000 surrendered during the battle.

Eyenixon said:
Yet another thread turns into a really boring argument about World War II.
quite a lot of the mentioned people have fighted in or around WW2, so the whole topic somewhat started a bit with that. But I dont know, if you want to contribute something to the original topic why not just doing it?

For some of us it is great to have discussions about WW2.
 
Eyenixon said:
Yet another thread turns into a really boring argument about World War II.

I'm pretty much the oposite of a war buff (I can barely tell two guns appart, anything I know is from video games) but this thread has a ripleys believe it or not quality to it, I mean the guys mentioned are pretty sensational.
 
The Audie Murphy stuff is true though, that was a damn neat guy.

He was a lil guy, I think he was 5'4-5'5 at his enlistment. He was in a bunch of western movies after the war and I mean dang man, you see him and it's like jeez, this tiny dude did all that?

The guy ended up with the Medal Of Honor, The Silver Star, Purple Heart, Legion Of Merit, Distinguished Service Cross and tons more.

He ended with The Medal Of Honor, plus 32 others, five French medals, and one Belgian medal.

That guy is pretty much the definition of war hero.
 
The Raging Russian said:
The Audie Murphy stuff is true though, that was a damn neat guy.
and he was often rumoured to be a fag, so coincidence that you like him? i think not! ;)

that said, he was awesome.
 
These were real heroes:

[spoiler:6b37da3e50]
300px-German_dead_at_Verdun.jpg
[/spoiler:6b37da3e50]

A few medals don't really make up for it.
 
yes rad most of us I think know about that. Its that most soldiers which got some award mentioned that their comrads which did not made it home have give more then anyone else on the field, their lifes.

But we are more or less talking about people here that should be dead a few dozen times in the process. I doubt anyone of them was from his personality or skills more special then most other soldiers they just seemed to had some amount of luck that seems unbelievable. Many other soldiers got their medals post human which means that they died for what they did. I mean how big can the odds be that someone climbs a mountain with 3 bullets in his crotch, capture 1 bunker and the second one with a broken limb and more or less bare fisted ...

It might be similar to Skydiver Michael Holmes which survived a two miles jump with just a few injuries and beeing unconscious! Just that in a situation like a war, usualy most of the things aim to kill you, you cant say that about a sky jump for fun.

By the way I dont call any soldiers a hero. But thats just me.
 
SuAside said:
Crni Vuk said:
By the way I dont call any soldiers a hero. But thats just me.
now that's just naive...
Well not that there is a clear definition of what a hero is anyway. But the only combatants that qualify for me as heros are medics.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1aoQHjctYc[/youtube]

You know it takes some serious guts to run in the midle of a firezone to patch up your comrades. Or even the enemy sometimes. Some of them have been pacifists which decided to save lives instead of killing one.

*Edit
Maybe this could be seen as hero as well I dont know. But it as well takes some serious guts ... and it was not for a "kill"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpFdVEmTWaQ
An Iranian tank(I think a M60) was hitted, and the brave tank driver stays in the tank and drives it away from soldier
 
Back
Top