The most badass mofos around

[Radwaster]

JunWisewar:

Myanmar/Thailand...

Myanmar is a brutally repressive military dictatorship. Oh but the military are always ok aren't they? So people there shouldn't be pissed off I guess?

(Friend of mine barely escaped with his life when the group of Karens he was staying with were attacked by Myanmar military).

Re Thailand (from news article): "The protestors have been calling for fresh elections and want former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a coup in 2006, to be reinstated."

So what do you suggest people do when the military assume control without a mandate? Sit at home and hope the latest dictator is gonna be kind?

 

[JunWisewar]

well any military should have some moral and a system which does not allow the killing of unarmed civilians.

Completely agree with you with this. The (any) current system that prevent the army commit any crimes is still ineffective. I know there are soldiers felt helpless while watching their comrades deliberately committing war crime during war and also the reverse side of the story where soldiers have the audacity to commit war crimes because the apparent lawlessness of the war zone. Emotion such as hatred or vengeance can really mess up how a soldiers act.....unless your made out of stone you will surely affected by emotions. Court Martial works sometime to punish soldiers that commit war crime but it didn't work all the time......
Until then.....human's imperfection will continue to corrupt the army.

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Myanmar is a brutally repressive military dictatorship. Oh but the military are always ok aren't they? So people there shouldn't be pissed off I guess?

(Friend of mine barely escaped with his life when the group of Karens he was staying with were attacked by Myanmar military).

Re Thailand (from news article): "The protestors have been calling for fresh elections and want former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a coup in 2006, to be reinstated."

So what do you suggest people do when the military assume control without a mandate? Sit at home and hope the latest dictator is gonna be kind?

Well, doing your so called demonstration in a nation under oppressive regime also wont really do a thing except providing news to world news agency. Demonstrations without planning or without right condition is pretty much useless and unnecessary.

Study the history and you know there are other more effective (either bloody or peaceful) ways instead of demonstrations that are not necessary effective and can be either peaceful or bloody. Demonstrations aren't solution to everything you know?

 

[Radwaster]

demonstration in a nation under oppressive regime also wont really do a thing except providing news to world news agency.

Drawing more unwelcome international attention on the regime seems a worthwhile achievement under the circumstances.

I agree though that demonstrations aren't the solution to everything.

Also -

Back (sort of) on topic, these are the real badasses, and don't any of you forget it or there will be more like them:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm

errr......you sure they have anything to do with this thread about being a badass individual soldier?

Note how many of the guys on that list started out (or had been) in the military...

 

[Crni Vuk]

Something on topic though

The story based on Clemens Forell escape

Though since its a "story" of course some things are to handle with care

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well any military should have some moral and a system which does not allow the killing of unarmed civilians.

Completely agree with you with this. The (any) current system that prevent the army commit any crimes is still ineffective. I know there are soldiers felt helpless while watching their comrades deliberately committing war crime during war and also the reverse side of the story where soldiers have the audacity to commit war crimes because the apparent lawlessness of the war zone. Emotion such as hatred or vengeance can really mess up how a soldiers act.....unless your made out of stone you will surely affected by emotions. Court Martial works sometime to punish soldiers that commit war crime but it didn't work all the time......
Until then.....human's imperfection will continue to corrupt the army.

You are of course correct. But I meant a different point. I meant a system which is based on a situation that makes "orders" like those in Tiananmen, Tibet or Uyghurstan [or East Turkistan] possible. On a official dayly basis. I would not be so much outraged about some army where crimes happen (cause thats what happens in EVERY army) as long you have at least the option to do something against it and such orders in relation with crimes are not approved by the greater administration that is in charge over the military. It is for me a difference if you have a administration with Generals and High Command that willingly orders the shooting, occupation, torture and what else or if you have this on the individual basis with a single soldier, commander or general even where you would have at least a "chance" (even when small) to get justice from a court. There isnt even a restriction regarding such situations in the first place since you have no control.

For example if today in Germany the minister of defence would order some German army to shoot unarmed civlians (which he cant anyway) it could not work cause every soldier has the right to reject such a order since the German military has a rule about it and the damage done to the army and the politics behind it would be immane. I am not used with the Chinese army, but many times has the military of China been involved in crimes on a high level and that have been officaly ordered. That is something I see as a important point regarding any army. If you dont have at least some kind of morale or ethics in the whole body and structure of the military its senseless to even talk about the actions of individuals as long those get approved by the people in charge over the military. So it seems not to me that the system to prevent such crimes is ineffective (cause the Chinese do indeed punish people) its just not existant cause they make a difference between "crimes" and "acts" regarding people that are labeled by the gouvernement as terrorists for example even when they are not terrorists (see the Uyghur people for example).

 

[JunWisewar]

Drawing more unwelcome international attention on the regime seems a worthwhile achievement under the circumstances.

Too bad Myanmars military junta didn't give a damn about the international opinion.....the Myanmar's people need to find a better ways than that if they wish to bring back democracy into their country.

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You are of course correct. But I meant a different point. I meant a system which is based on a situation that makes "orders" like those in Tiananmen, Tibet or Uyghurstan [or East Turkistan] possible. On a official dayly basis. I would not be so much outraged about some army where crimes happen (cause thats what happens in EVERY army) as long you have at least the option to do something against it and such orders in relation with crimes are not approved by the greater administration that is in charge over the military. It is for me a difference if you have a administration with Generals and High Command that willingly orders the shooting, occupation, torture and what else or if you have this on the individual basis with a single soldier, commander or general even where you would have at least a "chance" (even when small) to get justice from a court. There isnt even a restriction regarding such situations in the first place since you have no control.

For example if today in Germany the minister of defence would order some German army to shoot unarmed civlians (which he cant anyway) it could not work cause every soldier has the right to reject such a order since the German military has a rule about it and the damage done to the army and the politics behind it would be immane. I am not used with the Chinese army, but many times has the military of China been involved in crimes on a high level and that have been officaly ordered. That is something I see as a important point regarding any army. If you dont have at least some kind of morale or ethics in the whole body and structure of the military its senseless to even talk about the actions of individuals as long those get approved by the people in charge over the military. So it seems not to me that the system to prevent such crimes is ineffective (cause the Chinese do indeed punish people) its just not existant cause they make a difference between "crimes" and "acts" regarding people that are labeled by the gouvernement as terrorists for example even when they are not terrorists (see the Uyghur people for example).

The orders that the PLA soldier at that time is to reach Tiananmen Square at all cost within certain time limit which turned ugly when people try to block the army from reaching the square. In reality, most people died outside of the square when trying to block the soldiers instead of dying inside the Tiananmen square. When the soldiers reached the square, they actually allowed the student protesters to leave the squares. The Tiananmen square itself seen little or no bloodshed during 4th June 1989.

And the "tank-man" that made famous by the footage of him blocking a column of tanks are only possible because the army already controlled the square where they're no need to use harsh method to deal with the people. The tank driver and commander decide not to run him down because of their conscience and the objective of reaching and control the Tiananmen square are already achieved. If that "tank-man" try to block the the tanks column earlier when the soldiers still in the progress of reaching the Tiananmen square, he would have been killed because the strict order of reach the Tiananmen Square at all cause and kill those who try to block the soldiers.

But thank god the tank crew didn't go over the lines by crushing the "tank-man" because the death of that courageous lone protesters is unnecessary and horrible.


About the Uighur people, I can't comment about it since I'm know little about the situation about them. I do know there are bad things happened to them, but I need to learn more information before I can say anything about them.

 

[Crni Vuk]

...
About the Uighur people, I can't comment about it since I'm know little about the situation about them. I do know there are bad things happened to them, but I need to learn more information before I can say anything about them.

I suggest to search for informations about Rebiya Kadeer. The insight she gave about the time when she was in prison have been pretty schocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajzFyjac8tk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sK8woLHKU0&feature=related

Something she told was that in Prison they forced her to watch the torture of Uighur people while the performer of the torment repeated to Kadeer that she could not save those people from it. A pretty perverted form of psychological torture in my eyes.