Man, Rat, those pictures load slow even for broadbanders, how 'bout a text link instead of this?
The N.M.A. Fallout 3 Wish list.
- Thread starter DarkUnderlord
- Start date
And besides that, you're also stealing bandwidth, which is a VERY bad thing. Especially with something of that size.
popular demand wins again... turned it into a link.
*walks around with a "Bandwidth Thief" sign over his head*
Umm... maybe I just played FPS for too long... but its not like Fallout 3 would be succumbing to technology and graphics over gameplay (id style) I'm pretty sure its possible to have those two go hand in hand and compliment each other as opposed to competing.
*walks around with a "Bandwidth Thief" sign over his head*
Umm... maybe I just played FPS for too long... but its not like Fallout 3 would be succumbing to technology and graphics over gameplay (id style) I'm pretty sure its possible to have those two go hand in hand and compliment each other as opposed to competing.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Check the FAQ , it has some stuff on graphics, here is one example of a character from the game that was going to use the engine they are working on to make Fallout:
seriously that isn't great, and that screenshot they have of a dev desktop doesn't look too cool either... honestly looks a hell of a lot like NWN... and in the FAQ it basically sais that they made an engine for YESTERDAY... Geforce 2? lol anyways I guess its just a rant ... I can't really change anything unless I win a loterry and buy out BIS and FO lisence...
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
It will have more things added of course, some time has passed after that interview, and it`s a different game, but still the gameplay should be the most important feature IMO on a RPG, so it`s no biggie for me.
So what? Most people don't have the state of the art PCs you might have. And if they start aiming for the small group who can actually have such a machine, they'd be very dissappointed, since most will go play their fancy new graphics game, and not pay any attention to FO3.
From a marketing point of view, it wouldn't be smart to make an extremely good, yet incredibly resource-consuming engine.
As well as that, who gives even a rats ass about graphics? I'd be very happy to play with the graphics of old fallout, as long as we get something new. All I've noticed from graphics until now(Even when playing on uber high-end machines), is that I may be watching it for a couple of minutes, and then I never pay attention to it for the rest of the game. UNless I get a cool graphical gizmo, in which case I start paying attention for 2 minutes again. Wheeee, that fact doesn't even begin to warrant time spent on making a very difficult engine...
From a marketing point of view, it wouldn't be smart to make an extremely good, yet incredibly resource-consuming engine.
As well as that, who gives even a rats ass about graphics? I'd be very happy to play with the graphics of old fallout, as long as we get something new. All I've noticed from graphics until now(Even when playing on uber high-end machines), is that I may be watching it for a couple of minutes, and then I never pay attention to it for the rest of the game. UNless I get a cool graphical gizmo, in which case I start paying attention for 2 minutes again. Wheeee, that fact doesn't even begin to warrant time spent on making a very difficult engine...
I agree, fallout 2 graphics would suit me just fine.
As long as the story is good and there is lots of quests and such, I would be as pleased as I could possebly get.
Starseeker
Vault Senior Citizen
*LOL*
For those who weren't here in the earlier incarnation of the board, please check the archived board for inspirations, repeats, arguements, and whatnot.
The twin guns shooting idea has shown up at least 5 or 6 times in topics alone.
As for some of the more "interesting" discussions, here are some of my favorite -
http://www.nma-fallout.com/dcforum/ForumID5/863.html
http://www.nma-fallout.com/dcforum/ForumID5/838.html
Here is a 56 replies discussion thread on weapons alone.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/dcforum/ForumID5/906.html
For those who weren't here in the earlier incarnation of the board, please check the archived board for inspirations, repeats, arguements, and whatnot.
The twin guns shooting idea has shown up at least 5 or 6 times in topics alone.
As for some of the more "interesting" discussions, here are some of my favorite -
http://www.nma-fallout.com/dcforum/ForumID5/863.html
http://www.nma-fallout.com/dcforum/ForumID5/838.html
Here is a 56 replies discussion thread on weapons alone.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/dcforum/ForumID5/906.html
Chaos-Scorpion
First time out of the vault
My wishes for Fallout3 are:
1) The game should have just MORE of everything, since there are few things missing in Fallout2.
2)It also needs new appearance. While it doesn't need to be super beautiful. Some guys doesn't posses hyper-powerfull machines.
3)It'll be VERY nice if the developers add fantastic and REVOLUTIONARY A.I. Big variety of NPC's reaction and most important MANY different ways of completing the game.
4)Non-linear gaming. Many secondary quests. But interesting and
maybe related. Example: the ghost farm in fallout2 or the sierra army depot.
Thats all i can think of now.
1) The game should have just MORE of everything, since there are few things missing in Fallout2.
2)It also needs new appearance. While it doesn't need to be super beautiful. Some guys doesn't posses hyper-powerfull machines.
3)It'll be VERY nice if the developers add fantastic and REVOLUTIONARY A.I. Big variety of NPC's reaction and most important MANY different ways of completing the game.
4)Non-linear gaming. Many secondary quests. But interesting and
maybe related. Example: the ghost farm in fallout2 or the sierra army depot.
Thats all i can think of now.
i dont give a damn about 3D graphics.
if i want graphics, i prefer playing FPS and consoles.
if the dev team feels like sticking to FO and FOT engine, it is fine alright but please dont ever use 3D graphics that resemble FO: POS. Any resemblance, no matter how faint, is not wanted. I dont wanna see any POS on my screen.
if i want graphics, i prefer playing FPS and consoles.
if the dev team feels like sticking to FO and FOT engine, it is fine alright but please dont ever use 3D graphics that resemble FO: POS. Any resemblance, no matter how faint, is not wanted. I dont wanna see any POS on my screen.
3D is O.K.
yeah, but using in-game 3D graphics saves alot of time and work for the development department. because they don't have to be pre-renderd, are more felxible, easier to controle on multible levels...well acctually i'm not really an expert, just a graphical arts student...but the good thing about using in-game 3d rendering, is that it'll save the developers alot of time---> thus more time to work on the story-line dialoges ect.
yeah, but using in-game 3D graphics saves alot of time and work for the development department. because they don't have to be pre-renderd, are more felxible, easier to controle on multible levels...well acctually i'm not really an expert, just a graphical arts student...but the good thing about using in-game 3d rendering, is that it'll save the developers alot of time---> thus more time to work on the story-line dialoges ect.
All you people who (completely incorrectly) assume that game with good graphics must automatically suck in every other aspect should play MAFIA! I keep bringing up this game in every post because it's a true masterpiece in each and every aspect. RatPozion (change that name, man!) is totally right when he says that graphics and gameplay go hand in hand. The days are coming when advanced graphical engines will not only allow for immersive gameplay, they will be a guarantee of immersive gameplay! More and more developers attempt to use available engines to their fullest (unlike, for example, id software, who create highly advanced engines and then use them in crappy games). As a consequence, there is an increasing number of games that are incredibly complex because their engines allow for them to be complex. Just look at Morrowind, Mafia, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or Breed. Combine this with imagination, an intriguing plot and an interesting setting, and you have a definitive winner, but even if one of these characteristics is messed up, the game is still good and worth one's time. Morrowind, for example, suffers from some design flaws which have a detrimential effect on gameplay, but incredible complexity of its world (which is possible and result of Bethesda's state-of-the-art engine) still keeps the player preoccupied for days. So I hope you see why technical side is nowadays of vital importance for gameplay experience and vice versa.
Actually, you're completely wrong here. Good graphics in no way do anything for the gameplay other than making it look good, and making it run crappy as hell on not-so-state-of-the-art machines. It's bad business to make a PC game that requires state of the art technology, pure and simple. I'm not against good graphics, but I am against making people buy those state-of-the-art PCs to be able to actually PLAY the game.
Alright, so those games have good graphics, I'm sure they do, I'm sure they're great, but in NO WAY will graphics make a game good, graphics MIGHT make a game better to play, and will make a game better to play, but would you honestly say that you'd play Piece Of Shit if it was the best looking game ever, but you'd need to buy a new PC just to make it run(assuming it's released on PC)...
Alright, so those games have good graphics, I'm sure they do, I'm sure they're great, but in NO WAY will graphics make a game good, graphics MIGHT make a game better to play, and will make a game better to play, but would you honestly say that you'd play Piece Of Shit if it was the best looking game ever, but you'd need to buy a new PC just to make it run(assuming it's released on PC)...
You don't have to buy new PC to run new games with state-of-the-art engine. It's a lie, invented by those power maniacs who won't settle for anything lesser than 1600x1200 resolution and 4x FSAA. Game developers always design their games so that it's possible to run them on older computers (with some compromises, naturally), because that way they increase the potential market for their product. Of course, after four years you will have to at least upgrade your computer, but if you didn't manage to save a thousand in four years, then I wonder how you ever managed to purchase your current computer in the first place.
"...graphics MIGHT make a game better to play, and will make a game better to play..." What do you mean by "better to play"? Gameplay, of course! Gameplay isn't a simple concept, it is determined by many factors - interface, storyline, realism, interactivity (with the environment and with NPCs), atmosphere... Notice that nowadays almost all of these aspects of gameplay are either influenced or completely determined by the engine that the game uses. For example, realism also means graphical and physical realism, which is entirely dependant upon the engine that the game uses. Interactivity with the environment also depends on the engine. Even the atmosphere is influenced by the quality of the engine, as it largely depends on the graphics. So imagine a game that has great physics and great graphics. Even if you completely remove storyline and character interaction, you still have a playable and enjoyable game. That's what I mean when I say that modern graphical engines will soon guarantee playability, and bad graphics will result in its absence.
"...graphics MIGHT make a game better to play, and will make a game better to play..." What do you mean by "better to play"? Gameplay, of course! Gameplay isn't a simple concept, it is determined by many factors - interface, storyline, realism, interactivity (with the environment and with NPCs), atmosphere... Notice that nowadays almost all of these aspects of gameplay are either influenced or completely determined by the engine that the game uses. For example, realism also means graphical and physical realism, which is entirely dependant upon the engine that the game uses. Interactivity with the environment also depends on the engine. Even the atmosphere is influenced by the quality of the engine, as it largely depends on the graphics. So imagine a game that has great physics and great graphics. Even if you completely remove storyline and character interaction, you still have a playable and enjoyable game. That's what I mean when I say that modern graphical engines will soon guarantee playability, and bad graphics will result in its absence.
Raty, I dare you to say that you don't need state-of-the art PCs to play those games decently to my PC. Granted, it isn't a new PC, but it has been recently upgraded and SHOULD be able to handle most things, however, there is a big difference between handling and decently playing. Morrowind went slow as heell and stuttered like crazy, for instance. Trust me, I don't care if they go for brilliant graphics, but I do want them to keep in mind the people with not-so-state-of-the-art-PCs.
You're making a vital mistake here, you're assuming that graphics are the most important of an engine and that they determine everythin, that is simply not true. If you modified the Half-Life 1(not 2)engine you could theoretically get everything Half-Life 2 will have(for as far as I can see it), but it'll look not so good, but the GAMEPLAY will be completely unaffected by it. GAMEPLAY itself is in NO way affected by the graphical quality, it COULD be affected by graphical CAPABILITIES, such as physics, but those have more to do with the physics engine itself rather than the graphics engine.
Realism: It doesn't depend upon grahpical detail but it does depend upon graphical abilities, which mainly comes down to the Physics engine.
interactivity: Depends much much more on the physics engine and the possibilities of the game engine, not those of the graphics engine.
storyline: Huh? How does this depend upon grahpics? That's just weird, perhaps better looking FMVs can be made, but they don't add or detract from a stroyline.
lastly: interface: Well, I'l giveyou this, this DOES depend upon graphics MOST, but the problem is that you don't need high graphical stuff to be able to make a good interface, it's the way it's designed that makes it good or bad. I loved Fallout's interface, and they aren't really using the best graphics around. IN fact, I actually think it was one of the best interfaces ever, once you knew what to do...
All in all, brilliant graphics don't add to gameplay, and can even detract from it, unless you have a good team that functions well and where the coordination is very good, so that the progression and development of graphics won't affect the development of the rest too much...
You're making a vital mistake here, you're assuming that graphics are the most important of an engine and that they determine everythin, that is simply not true. If you modified the Half-Life 1(not 2)engine you could theoretically get everything Half-Life 2 will have(for as far as I can see it), but it'll look not so good, but the GAMEPLAY will be completely unaffected by it. GAMEPLAY itself is in NO way affected by the graphical quality, it COULD be affected by graphical CAPABILITIES, such as physics, but those have more to do with the physics engine itself rather than the graphics engine.
Realism: It doesn't depend upon grahpical detail but it does depend upon graphical abilities, which mainly comes down to the Physics engine.
interactivity: Depends much much more on the physics engine and the possibilities of the game engine, not those of the graphics engine.
storyline: Huh? How does this depend upon grahpics? That's just weird, perhaps better looking FMVs can be made, but they don't add or detract from a stroyline.
lastly: interface: Well, I'l giveyou this, this DOES depend upon graphics MOST, but the problem is that you don't need high graphical stuff to be able to make a good interface, it's the way it's designed that makes it good or bad. I loved Fallout's interface, and they aren't really using the best graphics around. IN fact, I actually think it was one of the best interfaces ever, once you knew what to do...
All in all, brilliant graphics don't add to gameplay, and can even detract from it, unless you have a good team that functions well and where the coordination is very good, so that the progression and development of graphics won't affect the development of the rest too much...
You misunderstood me. "Graphics" and "game engine" aren't the same thing. What I tried to explain is that modern engines will guarantee perfection in many aspects BESIDES graphical quality. Of course graphical quality has no other effect on gameplay except for creating visual realism and pleasure while playing. But good game engine means a lot more than just good graphics. A good engine means good physics, good interactivity and freedom, all of which we both stated in our previous posts. Also note that I didn't say that graphic engine determines storyline and interface. I said that almost all aspects of gameplay are either determined or influenced by quality of the engine used. Red Faction is an example of the game with excellent engine, but with complete absence of intriguing storyline and setting. Still, the game is far from being completely unplayable, thanks to GeoMod feature.
Furthermore, as games evolve, so do the players. Five years ago 640x480, 256 colours and a completely static, unanimated graphics were enough to maintain a good gaming experience. But now detailed 3D graphics, realistic physics and high interactivity are imperative for any new game, and Fallout 3 is no exception. Even if Sawyer and his crew put all their creativity into the sequel, even if they create breathtaking story, perfect roleplaying system and simple interface, the game will simply be incomplete without the features of a powerful 3D engine. That's an undeniable fact. In 1993 I thought Wolfenstein 3D was the best game in the world. Today I wouldn't even consider playing it again (other than to remind myself of how things were in the good ol' days), even though the concept of first person shooters hasn't much changed in past ten years.
Why settle for compromises when we can have absolute perfection?
As for your Morrowind problem:
1) What's your graphic board? Overclock it, install latest drivers, turn off VSync! If your drivers allow it, set performance settings to something like 'aggressive' or 'performance' (this can be done in nVidia Detonator drivers). Make sure mip-mapping, alpha blending and other fancy features are all set to best performance settings.
2) Go to BIOS and decrease CAS latency of your RAM.
3) Turn off all graphical features in Windows and shut down all TSR's
4) If you are using Windows XP, go to start menu -> run -> type 'services.msc' and turn off some of the services that take up CPU time.
5) Assign some cache for your harddrive and CDROM
6) Clean up and defragment your harddrive.
7) Make sure you have AGP 4x feature active in BIOS.
8 ) In game settings, turn off all features you don't need - lower the resolution, texture filtering, turn off FSAA, lower details (especially real time shadows 'n stuff) to minimum, and make sure pixel shading is off.
9) You can try running the game windowed if you want.
10) How much memory does your graphic board have? If it's less that 64 MB, you might need to increase AGP aperture size in BIOS.
11) Check your system for viruses, spyware and adware - they tend to slow down the computer.
Furthermore, as games evolve, so do the players. Five years ago 640x480, 256 colours and a completely static, unanimated graphics were enough to maintain a good gaming experience. But now detailed 3D graphics, realistic physics and high interactivity are imperative for any new game, and Fallout 3 is no exception. Even if Sawyer and his crew put all their creativity into the sequel, even if they create breathtaking story, perfect roleplaying system and simple interface, the game will simply be incomplete without the features of a powerful 3D engine. That's an undeniable fact. In 1993 I thought Wolfenstein 3D was the best game in the world. Today I wouldn't even consider playing it again (other than to remind myself of how things were in the good ol' days), even though the concept of first person shooters hasn't much changed in past ten years.
Why settle for compromises when we can have absolute perfection?
As for your Morrowind problem:
1) What's your graphic board? Overclock it, install latest drivers, turn off VSync! If your drivers allow it, set performance settings to something like 'aggressive' or 'performance' (this can be done in nVidia Detonator drivers). Make sure mip-mapping, alpha blending and other fancy features are all set to best performance settings.
2) Go to BIOS and decrease CAS latency of your RAM.
3) Turn off all graphical features in Windows and shut down all TSR's
4) If you are using Windows XP, go to start menu -> run -> type 'services.msc' and turn off some of the services that take up CPU time.
5) Assign some cache for your harddrive and CDROM
6) Clean up and defragment your harddrive.
7) Make sure you have AGP 4x feature active in BIOS.
8 ) In game settings, turn off all features you don't need - lower the resolution, texture filtering, turn off FSAA, lower details (especially real time shadows 'n stuff) to minimum, and make sure pixel shading is off.
9) You can try running the game windowed if you want.
10) How much memory does your graphic board have? If it's less that 64 MB, you might need to increase AGP aperture size in BIOS.
11) Check your system for viruses, spyware and adware - they tend to slow down the computer.
1) Already did it, but won't overclok, too risky 
A friend of mine fried a mobo+ram+video card in overclocking it.
2) Already did it
3) I always do
4) Windows 98
5) Already did it
6) NO! Seriously, my harddrive is seriously fucked up, and I'm leaving it that way, I'm too lazy to.
7) AGP is at max, but I can't remember what the max was.
8)Hey, how dumb do you think I am?
9)Windowed?? That'd make it go slower due to windows graphics in the background.
10)64 MB
11)Told you, everything is off, and I don't have anything of that kind...
And you're still not listening to what I'm saying, I'm merely saying that the state-of-the-art graphics should at least have a very very very low detail option, because otherwise, a LOT of people won't be able to decently play it, graphics ITSELF affects gameplay in not a single way, except for the ten seconds someone may be amazed by them, if it's in any way a good game. ONe of my favorite lines is "Gameplay over graphics.", it should be like that, good graphics dopn't make for good gameplay, but good gameplay can make god graphics obsolete.
A friend of mine fried a mobo+ram+video card in overclocking it.2) Already did it
3) I always do
4) Windows 98
5) Already did it
6) NO! Seriously, my harddrive is seriously fucked up, and I'm leaving it that way, I'm too lazy to.
7) AGP is at max, but I can't remember what the max was.
8)Hey, how dumb do you think I am?
9)Windowed?? That'd make it go slower due to windows graphics in the background.
10)64 MB
11)Told you, everything is off, and I don't have anything of that kind...
And you're still not listening to what I'm saying, I'm merely saying that the state-of-the-art graphics should at least have a very very very low detail option, because otherwise, a LOT of people won't be able to decently play it, graphics ITSELF affects gameplay in not a single way, except for the ten seconds someone may be amazed by them, if it's in any way a good game. ONe of my favorite lines is "Gameplay over graphics.", it should be like that, good graphics dopn't make for good gameplay, but good gameplay can make god graphics obsolete.
Chaos-Scorpion
First time out of the vault
Some people wont die when you shoot them with machine gun 3 times? You must be really crappy shooter 8) . Damage in the game is perfect. Gives snipers some bonuses.
Now i want to add something:
1) Sniping system!
2) Graphic, not only beautifull but such which posses STYLE. I mean original interface(FO2;1), beautifully painted inventory and armors with original design.
3) BRUTALITY!!! Brutal death animations. Much blood.
4) Big variety of weapon attachments(like sniper scope) and upgrades.
5) Turn based system for single player. But corectly done! And maybe some real time for multiplayer, but the work should go for the turn based mode.
That's all (for now )
Now i want to add something:
1) Sniping system!
2) Graphic, not only beautifull but such which posses STYLE. I mean original interface(FO2;1), beautifully painted inventory and armors with original design.
3) BRUTALITY!!! Brutal death animations. Much blood.
4) Big variety of weapon attachments(like sniper scope) and upgrades.
5) Turn based system for single player. But corectly done! And maybe some real time for multiplayer, but the work should go for the turn based mode.
That's all (for now
)