The Positive Thread

[Black]

I bet that came from a person that finds corpse eating as cool idea ^^

Hey I like the corpse eating
It seems hilarious to me.

If that's hilarious for you then ok.
But if it's hilarious and you're telling other people "dude, why would you want to kill kids, that is sic" then we have a problem.

 

[Sorrow]

One weird thing about censorship lovers is that they can't understand that someone may hate unkillable characters or excluding characters for "moral" reasons without having a specific desire to kill those characters.

 

[xdarkyrex]

If that's hilarious for you then ok.
But if it's hilarious and you're telling other people "dude, why would you want to kill kids, that is sic" then we have a problem.

It took every ounce of willpower I had not to get Child Killer in Fallout every single time I played it.

Especially in the Den

One weird thing about censorship lovers is that they can't understand that someone may hate unkillable characters or excluding characters for "moral" reasons without having a specific desire to kill those characters.

Honestly, I don't think Bethesda is making a bad move if they leave out child killing. It's for the best, imho. Personally, I hate Hillary Clinton for it, not Bethesda.

 

[Sorrow]

I was talking about the censorship lovers in general not about Bethesda. They are a band of lying animals that loves to slander our culture.

 

[xdarkyrex]

I am about as anti-censorship as one can get, so you're preaching to the choir buddy


Someone E-mail THIS to Mrs Clinton...
http://www.scientificjournals.org/journals2007/articles/1007.htm

In Sum, our results suggest that type of game peripheral does not have an affect on the physiological or behavioral outcomes of violent video game play, particularly in the case of first-person shooters. Thus, while parents and other consumers should be concerned about the violent content of video games and the negative effects of this violence, the means by which children play violent games does not appear to affect immediate outcomes.

You want to know what DOES arouse physiological impulses for excitation of violence, though?

Bullshit like THIS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIu3JMGxk3Q

I wonder if I were to kill a political figure at the head of gaming censorship if they would argue that gaming censorship promotes violence in youth?
lmao.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Honestly, I don't think Bethesda is making a bad move if they leave out child killing. It's for the best, imho. Personally, I hate Hillary Clinton for it, not Bethesda.

In light of the Manhunt 2 controversy, it's extremely doubtful that Bethesda is going to include it if they feel it will give them the AO rating. It's not worth it, and I wouldn't push for it if I were in their position. I understand that the issue is about freedom of choice and the consequences within the game world, but the "killable children" issue is extremely trivial in the overall view of the game and is getting blown dramatically out of proportion.

On the other hand, Richard Garriott got away with it in every Ultima game since V, so maybe it won't be a huge ratings issue. Of course, Ultima games didn't have particularly realistic depictions of violence (especially pre-VII), nor did the ESRB exist until after Ultima VIII.

I just don't think the exclusion of killing children is something to get one's panties in a knot about. If it ruins the game experience for anyone, then I think he has his priorities severely out of whack.

 

[Sorrow]

I agree. Creating realistic game world is completely unimportant and everyone who disagrees has his priorities severely out of whack.

Actually, I was making a mod for Baldur's Gate 2 that provides similar protection for women.

Here's a describtion:

I think that killing innocent women is wrong and despicable. No normal person would like to murder an innocent woman. I think that there's no reason why there should be an option to ruthlessly murder innocent women in computer games.

Ability to murder innocent women is a special feature that doesn't add anything to computer games. There are a lot of computer games that don't have an option of murdering innocent women and they are as immersive as those who allow ruthless, bestial murder of innocent women.

There is a line that computer games shouldn't pass, I think that murdering innocent women is behind that line.

Can you, people imagine a situation in game, where a pretty, kind innocent woman is sitting in a restaurant, chatting with her friends and then...
And then a male comes in and swings at her with his long sword, literally cutting her in two, brain, blood and fragments of skull landing on her terrified friends and innards spilling at the floor?

I think that such situation is unacceptable in computer games.

I'm thinking about making a mod that would deal the problem of murder of innocent women like Hasbro dealt with the problem of killable children in Temple of Elemental Evil.
If somebody didn't play ToEE, I'll explain - there are a lot of unique NPCs in the main town - they have their own families, that sound like real families, which would add a lot to realism and immersion the game.
It would be bad, because murdering families is wrong.
Luckily Hasbro decided to protect us from a possiblity of murdering children of those families by removing them and now those families are childless. Sadly they didn't want to protect innocent women .

Those screens show a difference between a normal BG2 and my mod:
Normal Game - Bad. An option to bestially murder innocent women is available to player.

My Mod - Good - innocent women are protected from bestial murder.

You want to know what DOES arouse physiological impulses for excitation of violence, though?

Bullshit like THIS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIu3JMGxk3Q

I wonder if I were to kill a political figure at the head of gaming censorship if they would argue that gaming censorship promotes violence in youth?
lmao.

That's pretty natural that such degenerate crimes against our culture arouse physiological impulses for excitation of violence. Personally I would place such creatures amongst murderers, rapists, child molesters, bandits and similiar types in a death row, where they belong.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

1st off El_Smacko, i like what you are trying to do with this thread (if it's what i think, lol)

I like the idea of Fallout Changing into a game that has it's old CRPG qualities, but can give you better feel of the world through a *ahem* First Person Perspective "Option."

I do hope they still stay true to the traditional style of FO game play when it comes to the true traditional style of FO play.

Graphics look awesome, and what i've heard of the game play is merely 2nd hand knowledge of an over powered Demo. So i really have no input on that subject matter.

I think that killing innocent women is wrong and despicable

If you leave out one option (e.g. Child killing, innocent maiming) in a video game, due as a 'unofficial response' to a gaming censorship community.
You are already back sliding.
They are using words, and nothing tangible.
YOU lose all your games.

Whats to stop them from taking away any action that would adversely effect your 'Karma'?

E.g. "You REALLY don't need to kill those people. So we're going to have it standardized throughout ALL games, that killing of ANYTHING living, or 'appears' to be living, is totally wrong for video games."

"why do you need the "steal" skill? Stealing is WRONG! Bad you!"

I mean come on. Do you really want to be left with games where you are a pink lil bunny, and you have to figure out how to "share?"

BLEH! If i wanted that i'd.... JUST NOT PLAY video games.

You say you play Baldur's Gate 2. I believe you have kill Virtual Animals in that game too.

So what if you find killing Virtual people in a game "despicable."

What if i find killing "Virtual Creatures (of any kind)" just as despicable?

Will you renounce your ways and make a mod where all your enemies(of everykind), are 'harmless' & 'helpless' rocks on the ground?
You've encountered "Granite!"
You've encountered "Sandstone!"

lol

Yeah... I'm sure that will get old quick.

If people have problems with whats in a game. Do what i do!
JUST DON'T BUY THEM!!

If the game's subject content is THAT bad, Parents shouldn't buy it for their kids and bitch about it. You bought it, if ya aint happy. Get rid of it.

If this "novel" concept of "don't bitch about it, JUST DON'T PLAY IT" gets around. Then we'd all have SO MUCH more fun in this lovely thing called life!

Long story short:
Don't push your bullshit ideas of "morality" and what-not on me, and i wont make you eat rocks

Personally I would place such creatures amongst murderers, rapists, child molesters, bandits and similiar types in a death row, where they belong.

Umm... Bandits? Where the hell are you living at that you would still call them Bandits? LOL

Death row REALLY needs to eliminate the "Suicide watch" and all the counseling it gives those guys.
Save the states BUTT LOADS of money.

 

[Bad_Karma]

What looks positive to me?
The graphics looks good until now, but okay, i don't think i would see them the way they are shown.

Some 'tutorial' like beginning, i think this was one good thing Beth implemented in Morrowind and so on. But yeah, it should be skipable...

The idea of looking a bit more into a closed vault.

Placing the story on the east-side.

Some ideas of their jokes (even while i somehow not sure they did them well... ).

That it won't only be done for consoles yay!

Licenced great music, as far as it seems.

Ron Perlman's voice.

Moral based choices.

I guess that's it...

 

[Silveressa]

Well after looking at the previews, the thing I'm most looking foward to is the moddability that will be possible for this game.

With Elder Scrolls thery left out nudity, modders put it in. They left out the ability to get covered in blood from killing. Modders put that in too.

They leave out the drugs, prostituion, etc.. Modders will add it right back in a few months after release. (and I'll be happy to help in the modding area)

So, honestly I'm not overly upset (disappointed yes, but not to the extent of not purchasing it) if they leave out the child killing, drugs, drug additction, as long as they finish the product and release it, so we, the community, can fill in the gaps they're to timid to put in.

A "Real fallout overhaul mod" is prolly going to be in the works after they release it no matter what they do/do not put in due to us fans of the original fallouts noticing all the gaps and differneces we miss formt he originals.

So yea, pretty much there being a fallout 3 at all is a postive thing in my book.

Edit: althougth if Elder Scrolls Oblvion is any track record to compare it too, there should still be in the drugs/drug addiction, since Oblivion has Skooma (a drug) and no one made much of a fuss.

 

[Black]

I'd say because of Oblivion moving from T to M they probably won't release anything that will help to add killable kids and stuff like that.

 

[Silveressa]

I'd say because of Oblivion moving from T to M they probably won't release anything that will help to add killable kids and stuff like that.

Well, as long as they release a rdk or contrctuction kit, people can script it in without difficulty. (since really it's no different that scripting in making any npc killable when you get right down to it. Especially if you import a custom model or alter their children models in the event they some how code them to be "unkillable"

Really though, I doubt they'll care what modders do since they have no real control over them and it doesn't impact initial sales of their game negatively. Leaving out a construction kit though, I'm pretty sure that would hurt initial sales signifigantly. (although even if they did people would likely modd elders scrolls tool kit to work with it, or code one of thier own like they did with Fallout 2)

 

[Grey_Wolf]

Well, as long as they release a rdk or contrctuction kit, people can script it in without difficulty. (since really it's no different that scripting in making any npc killable when you get right down to it. Especially if you import a custom model or alter their children models in the event they some how code them to be "unkillable"

~and~

So, honestly I'm not overly upset (disappointed yes, but not to the extent of not purchasing it) if they leave out the child killing, drugs, drug additction, as long as they finish the product and release it, so we, the community, can fill in the gaps they're to timid to put in.

I really don't want to have to download EVERYTHING, or have to create all my own mods for the game. Isn't that what i'll be paying these people to do? Build the game for me, so i don't have to run down everything and waste my own resources?

If Beth really does go THAT route, they better make the thing free, with open source.

Cause i will not pay some one full price, to give me a piece of lettuce and tell me "Okay, here's your hamburger"
And have to go scrounge up the rest myself.

If you can do all those things, i admire your talents, but i really don't want to sit behind a computer and code all day, and am extremely hesitant to go and download 15 mods for 1 game.

 

[Silveressa]

Downloading mods for games is kind of second nature to me (right along with checking for patches immediately after install) since quality control in 70+% of video games is virtually non existent. (I install X3 or F.E.A.R and check for updates only to find a 500-700mb patch?! wtf? am I missing an entire cd for the game or something?)

As for modding, it's kind of a major hobby for me to alter games to fit more with my preference of "fun" than the developers sometimes slanted view points of "balanced" enjoyable" and "fair" (or just to expand on content/ideas they never explored. I wouldn;'t say I could do all of the stuff I mentioned, but a fair amount of it, and I'm sure the modding community would be working on it as well.

As for buying it... well there's plenty of alternatives to paying out a lot of cash for a piece of crap game you want to mod but isn't worth the $50 investment.

A few of which are get it on ebay for $2-10, buy it off a friend for about the same once they're sick of it, as well as other "options" I'm sure you can think of.

As long as it comes out and is mostly bug free it's good thing, (even if it lacks some of the desired features like child slaying, prostitution etc..) better than it being condemned to the dark vaults of abandoned ware leaving the series to a permanent demise.

Of course if it comes out with at least some of the features I want and is a good game, then I'll gladly support the company and pay full price for it without hesitation.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

I'm a F.E.A.R. Player myself, so i can understand that. But i don't want my video/computer games to turn into some sort of demented "Build-a-bear workshop" perversion, tagged with a "some assembly/programming required" sticker on the side of the box.

I just want to plug in the game, get the updates, and forget about it. If the company doesn't support my view of what a game should be, then i'm not going to buy their game, and i'll just sit down and hope they go bankrupt. lol

 

[sickfuck_diablo]

I really dont think the exclusion of child killing is akin to making a 'build-a-bear' workshop game. I dont see this as a censorship issue; unless the game was designed this way before hand (speaking specifically about F3) in order to make a statement or add an artistic element, and then someone 'higher up' comes along and silences them.

In F1&2 it was easy to laugh or disregard blowing away one of those obnoxious brats in the Den, or even Shady Sands, due to the detached POV and lack of detail. But with the new game and it's huge amount of detail/ first person POV/ everything voice acted, the same situation becomes extremely disturbing.. atleast this is my personal opinion. (I'm still getting it anyway.)

Going back to the main topic, the thing I find most exciting is that it's set in DC, my hometown... so it will be cool to recognize places and landmarks that I see everyday.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

unless the game was designed this way before hand (speaking specifically about F3) in order to make a statement or add an artistic element, and then someone 'higher up' comes along and silences them.

That does apply to this game. And since it is under the Title "Fallout" all of it's previous beliefs and whatnot, are also there. So like you said. Someone "higher up" is coming along and silencing the old styles of FO.

And as for child killing, it's a FO thing. I never did it. And the knowing that i can, was always an interesting thing.
Truthfully, in games with "indestructible NPCs" i put more rounds in them than anyone. Cause i know they can take it.
But it's REALLY annoying.

For all i know, when the nukes fell back LONG ago (in the game) these people were still there, and never moved from their spots. Immortals forever. That is annoying. This isn't children of the corn.

I really dont think the exclusion of child killing is akin to making a 'build-a-bear' workshop game

Yes... it is. Cause if it's one piece(child killing), then 2 pieces(hookers), then 3(drugs), then 4 pieces(any killing in general), etc... You might as well be comparing it, since you will need to start going out and salvaging organs and body parts (Mods) to create the REAL Fallout.

If they didn't want to have to stick to the same style, and uniqueness that Fallout is known for, they shouldn't have called the game Fallout 3.

They should have called it "Doom-Nukem" or something.

And you find the option of killing people in a game to be wrong. Well (as i've said else where), what if i find the killing of ANY living thing wrong? Plants included.
Will you bend to MY ways, and just kick rocks (those poor, dear innocent things) through the whole game?

If so, you may be bored out of your mind, and rather irritated, because ALL the creatures that i find it wrong to kill, are all indestructible, and unkillable.
You can shoot all you want, but they will just sit and chuckle at you lol ^^

(Like i've also said before). If you find something offensive about a game. Don't try and get everyone else to change to your ways. JUST DON'T BUY IT.
It's under the Fallout Title, and therefore should follow Fallout's Style.

If you want to read the rest of it, just scroll up. or go here
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=417782&highlight=#417782

In F1&2 it was easy to laugh or disregard blowing away one of those obnoxious brats in the Den

~And~

But with the new game and it's huge amount of detail/ first person POV/ everything voice acted, the same situation becomes extremely disturbing.. atleast this is my personal opinion.

Ugh... so you slaughtered the kids and laughed? In FO2, I winged one with a rocket, and felt kind of weird about it. And didn't even realize i had done it till i saw a poster up about it later on.

Yeah, even with my evil character, i was unamused by killing kids.

 

[Madbringer]

I don't know. I never killed a child in neither of the Fallouts on purpose, except when i was playing an evil motherfucker, and even then i felt kinda bad about it (badder then fucking the whores in the Cat's Paw and then stabbing them to death with a combat knife).

Still, i liked having this freedom of choice. I liked knowing i can do it if i really wanted to. If you're roleplaying, you're roleplaying, and stuff like this only bummer you out. Well, at least it bummers ME out.

Sides, i hate the contrast and hypocrisy. So i'll be able to fuck whores (at least i hope i will ), there will be blood and violence, and unshaved, mean looking dudes cursing the shit out of things. But i won't be able to put a bullet through little Timmy's head.

In a world like this, little kids probably end up as heavily abused and oft-molested slaves. At least give me a chance to put them out of their misery.

A-DUH! :E

 

[Sorrow]

In F1&2 it was easy to laugh or disregard blowing away one of those obnoxious brats in the Den, or even Shady Sands, due to the detached POV and lack of detail. But with the new game and it's huge amount of detail/ first person POV/ everything voice acted, the same situation becomes extremely disturbing.. atleast this is my personal opinion. (I'm still getting it anyway.)

Are we talking about the same Fallout? Detached POV? Lack of detail?
LACK OF DETAIL?
You mean a little, little kiddie having half of its side blown away, falling to the ground with a pathetic whimper isn't disturbing?

Anyway, I don't find killing "children" more disturbing than killing adult humans. At least adult humans are more human. Nor I find killing them amusing. They are just humans. All humans die.
I prefer murdering women in Fallout. With a Cattle Prod. Now, that's amusing .
BTW.
When I hear about 'unkillable characters' I reach for my Browning!

 

[Silveressa]

BTW.
When I hear about 'unkillable characters' I reach for my Browning!

Just the browning? Not the super mutant/dissolve anything into a pile of goo syringe you get from the mad scientist?

Personally for me, unkillable npc's ruins the whole pretext of fallouts main selling point (for me) actions=consequences. If I know they're un touchable then if a fire fight erupts around them I'm going to spray on full auto and not pause instead of tying to find a solution that doesn't involve using little timmy as a meat shield from incoming fire and lobbing a few rockets/mini gun bursts into the gangers standing around the rest of the kids.

Part of why I keep playing FO 1 & 2 through time after time is how darned open ended they are. They're the only games I've ever played where I feel I can do pretty near whatever I want and experience believable consequences for it. Blow up a towns out house and rain crap over everything? Sure! Have a lesbian (or gay) relationship and marriage? Unexpected! Go grave digging and pay the rep consequences? Sounds fine! Be a porn star in Reno? Quite a different kind of fame! Unload a tanker of flamer fuel on a group of thieving brats that just stole your handgun? Not any more (or less) real to life that the previous possiblilities.

It's really a hall mark of a game where they don't shy away from aspects of life 99% of video games won't touch with a 50' pole and actually put some believable consequences behind them. So yea, I find child killing disturbing in a game, but it adds consequences to my actions making me think before doing something, and genuinely giving more than a passing thought to if I really want to do something or not. Thus I find it essential to the over all experience.

It's also the reason why the FO games are one of the few I can say "And on my 7th time through I did this,..."

But I realise I'm ranting so I'll shut up now.

In short though, I'll prolly die of shock if they include even a 10th of the controversial content (to say nothing of language) that made it into FO 2