The Vault Experiment Program

My point was that filling the vaults, or any other suitable facility, before any war, under the ruse of a war would be far better than waiting for a war to conduct these simple experiments.

To waste the last hope of humanity, or atleast the american way, that these vaults represented by wasting them on experimentation on the nation finest and often most resourceful citizen is just silly and makes very very little sense. Ergo very Fallout.
 
Arquebus said:
My point was that filling the vaults, or any other suitable facility, before any war, under the ruse of a war would be far better than waiting for a war to conduct these simple experiments.
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Becuase? That would not only cost a lot more money and effort, it's also extremely hard to pull off.

Arquebus said:
To waste the last hope of humanity, or atleast the american way, that these vaults represented by wasting them on experimentation on the nation finest and often most resourceful citizen is just silly and makes very very little sense. Ergo very Fallout.
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The nation's finest? No, just the ones who could afford it and who could make it to the vaults on time.

Plus, again, the ones conducting the experiments (government officials and Vault-Tekkers) would put themselves into vaults that didn't have those experiments. Assuming that they were going to survive and emerge once again to rule the USA (or what was left of it), they thought it interesting and possibly useful to use several vaults for a dual purpose: survival and testing.
 
Sander said:
Hell, you might want to read my previous points where I also explained why the government would want to do this, since you didn't answer that to any extent either.
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Oh, you mean:
That, in turn, could help them to gain more control over the unknowing masses
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What masses? The masses were dead. The vault dwellers were most of the surviving population. I wouldn't use them as guinea pigs.
Arquebus is right about making people believe there was a war - studying them would have been more useful before the war, where there was a population to learn to control. Although I doubt the usefulness of such experiments even then.
 
Lumpy said:
Oh, you mean:
That, in turn, could help them to gain more control over the unknowing masses
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What masses? The masses were dead. The vault dwellers were most of the surviving population. I wouldn't use them as guinea pigs.
Arquebus is right about making people believe there was a war - studying them would have been more useful before the war, where there was a population to learn to control. Although I doubt the usefulness of such experiments even then.
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They did not know what would really happen after a nuclear war. It was assumed that *most* of the population would die. However, the ones in the vaults were assumed to live, and making them experiments doesn't suddenly kill them. So that would be one source of population, with the data serving as insights into psychology, sociology and physiology (in the case of the Necropolis vault). With several hundreds, if not thousands, of vaults across the US it would not be really adverse to sacrifice some of them for scientific study.
Now, whether or not this is really useful can be debated, but it's not unlikely that politicians and Vault-tek officials saw this as possibly useful.
Furthermore, one never knows the extent of such a nuclear war beforehand. It would not be strange to assume that there would be some places that escaped from nuclear destruction, and hence there would be even more people for which and on which those findings could be used.
 
So...to those who don't think the US might undergo some planned cleansing if this situation were to arise, let's take a look at this. First, I can tell that some don't know the dynamics of the US very well. As someone who has been through, in, and around every state, as well as many parts of the world, I can tell you that the US is *quite* different in regions.

The "people" around NY city tend to be the most up-tight, snotty, and useless people I have ever seen.

The people in the South can be friendly, but only if you're in the right neighborhood or wearing the same color skin. That goes for anybody there.

The west is pretty laid back...except for smoking and when driving. Get them home to their bong and they are happy and harmless, unless they are a meth head; those should be shot into the ocean with a trebuchet, I volunteer to engineer one of those for that very purpose.

You also have the fine specimens on the East coast, of crack dealers selling to anyone to make it rich off others of his own race.

On the west coast, crystal meth is the pipe candy of the day. Meth labs are so bad, police squad cars carry a can of spray starch to spray onto the wall, to see if the iodine on the wall reacts with the starch. Some meth labs switched to blue wall paint because of this, to avoid plain sight testing.

In the south, you now have an abundance of wetbacks, seemingly bent on taking back Mexico from the gringo invaders one lawn and youth garbage gang-infested block at a time. Oh, wait, this is Fallout and they closed the borders then. Nevermind. :D

Or maybe you'd like to get rid of the cultists in Utah? The only reason I could see for the US to launch nukes against itself.

In the north, you have a few odd people that are friendly, but that's because they're used to the wilderness life and can deal with Canadians. Well, before the rest of the US decided to annex Canada, and Alaska was a major combat field.

In the east, you have the "white-nosed politician".

Remember, the US was founded upon ethnic cleansing. They didn't quite do such a good job, that they sent more of these people into WWII as cryptologists as an attempt to completely kill them off. ;)

Hmmm...who to remove, to make it easier for the preferable people to spread out?* Depending on where the folks who made the decisions come from and how they look at things, they would choose certain candidates from the Vault system for various reasons.

* - Second, Fallout has Masonic references with the Children, again you can also see why those of the Cathedral in Fallout eventually made it into other cities, to scout them out to see whom should be used and whom should be killed.

They tried for more of the same in Fallout 2, but BIS handled the initial concepts a bit inexpertly.
 
I have a question; What is a "meth head"? whait, make it two: what is "meth"?
 
Kahgan said:
I have a question; What is a "meth head"? whait, make it two: what is "meth"?
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A meth head is someone addicted to crystal methane, which is a very dangerous recreational drug.
Crystal methane is nicknamed " meth"
 
Kahgan said:
I have a question; What is a "meth head"? whait, make it two: what is "meth"?
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Methamphetamine, a highly dangerous and addictive hard drug, although less addictive than most opiates, it is somewhat comparable to XTC, albeit more addictive than that.
 
Well, a crystallised version of it, anyway.
However, RPGenius wrote "Crystal Methane" which it certainly isn't, since methane is a fuel, while methamphetamine is not.
 
Sander said:
Well, a crystallised version of it, anyway.
However, RPGenius wrote "Crystal Methane" which it certainly isn't, since methane is a fuel, while methamphetamine is not.
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That much is true, sure 'nough, 'sure 'nough.
 
Roshambo said:
The west is pretty laid back...except for smoking and when driving. Get them home to their bong and they are happy and harmless, unless they are a meth head; those should be shot into the ocean with a trebuchet, I volunteer to engineer one of those for that very purpose.
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You want to hack, dude?

No seriously, Oregon (my state) is one of the leaders in the Meth problem, and I don't mean that in a good way. (Mostly Eastern Oregon, though.)

On the west coast, crystal meth is the pipe candy of the day. Meth labs are so bad, police squad cars carry a can of spray starch to spray onto the wall, to see if the iodine on the wall reacts with the starch. Some meth labs switched to blue wall paint because of this, to avoid plain sight testing.
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Ah, I remember as a young 10 year old in Beaverton seeing the neighborhood meth house get raided. Good times, good times. Has it already been ten years?

In the south, you now have an abundance of wetbacks, seemingly bent on taking back Mexico from the gringo invaders one lawn and youth garbage gang-infested block at a time. Oh, wait, this is Fallout and they closed the borders then. Nevermind. :D
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No, they are all over the west coast too, now. There's a reason we call it "Hell's Burrito" in Hillsboro.

Hmmm...who to remove, to make it easier for the preferable people to spread out?* Depending on where the folks who made the decisions come from and how they look at things, they would choose certain candidates from the Vault system for various reasons.
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Hopefully it would be more complicated than throwing blindfolded at a dartboard, yeah. Something tells me that none of the valuable information they gained was really grokked by the leadership, though. It usually isn't in that form of government.
 
Lazarus Plus said:
You want to hack, dude?

No seriously, Oregon (my state) is one of the leaders in the Meth problem, and I don't mean that in a good way. (Mostly Eastern Oregon, though.)
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Add "Spun Valley" near Reno as another big one.

Also, an FYI for those who didn't get the slang: GOOD!
You shouldn't have to hear it ever again, but you should be at least aware of it. Don't even THINK of doing this shit, it IS chimeically addictive and can ruin your life, judging from the number of spun-out wastes in Cali/Nevada. It is perhaps the most insidious of drugs, leading to an inherent loss of muscle and bone to the point of looking like a stick figure. Look up some pics about "crystal methamphetamine addicts" and...it's not pretty. You would wonder why anyone would do this to themselves, as you could have homeless people with pictures of who they once were before they got spun out. The contrast is pretty damn frightening. One of the first things to go is the teeth, then the face as they pick it to death, then their body becomes wasted away to a stick figure. In the desert heat, some meth heads fry, and some of the kids local to the area have a morbid placard they put by those sites.

"Another one down!"

Crystal Methamphetamine is far worse than simple speed (Methamphetamins). It's been cooked down and refined into the crystal, which is then usually smoked or injected, depending on the junkie. Usually when they start on their veins, they only have about 6 months left to live, before they start having strokes and heart attacks. More on this here, for those still curious.

Ah, I remember as a young 10 year old in Beaverton seeing the neighborhood meth house get raided. Good times, good times. Has it already been ten years?
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Which would make it a...perfect parody of what else? None other than Fallout 2's Jet!

No, they are all over the west coast too, now. There's a reason we call it "Hell's Burrito" in Hillsboro.
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Little Mexico, Little Columbia, or Little Cuba are all trash in my eyes, frankly. Even those in Alaska, and that's saying something, since they brought gang bullshit into the state. They found out exactly how rich of a veteran population Alaska has.

If they, as a community, cannot control their kids to the point where they are roving street gangs, then they are not interested in the future of this country and by proxy, themselves. I view the barrio situations a bit differently, but it's only because these people can't seem to be proper parents. When it becomes a majority problem, then it's pretty damn scary.

Apply that to anyone who simply didn't care, even to the Irish who preyed upon themselves about a century again. My feeling is pretty much the same about the human cockroach. People who revel in wallowing in the shit they make their life.

Hopefully it would be more complicated than throwing blindfolded at a dartboard, yeah. Something tells me that none of the valuable information they gained was really grokked by the leadership, though. It usually isn't in that form of government.
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Given the Masonic references inherent in Fallout, I believe that a continuation of those for a world domination plan would indeed fit. Just go along their plans for a Masonic conquest, but with a both darkly ironic and complex story development behind it dependent upon the character's abilities, and it would simply fit.
 
Given the Masonic references inherent in Fallout, I believe that a continuation of those for a world domination plan would indeed fit. Just go along their plans for a Masonic conquest, but with a both darkly ironic and complex story development behind it dependent upon the character's abilities, and it would simply fit.
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A nice conspiracy theory-esque plot line, would be to link, in at least a small way, the BOS and the Masters plans.
Hell, maybe even take it futher and have a BOS elder and a few select loyal troops find and attempt to finsh the master's plans.
When you think about it, both groups have a fair bit in common, they both believe themselves to be superior, they both want to "unite the wastes" and they both use force to achieve their means.
 
You know, the Great Experiment was something that kind of bugged me. I can understand that a government like the US would love to know more about group psychology, but the idea of making the vaults as case studies seemed kind of forced to me. I think that there would be nobody left to care about the results of such a test, although the government can and has funded more poorly conceived and sophomoric studies. I do not beleive that the vaults could be planned as both experiment and shelter; running an experiment usually means that you are not sure of the outcome, which would seem to neccesitate the concession that many, possibly every vault could fail to preserve lives. Even a vault project conceived purely to protect people from nuclear attack would be, like most creations of man, prone to failure. Many of the scenarios mentioned in-game and in the fallout bible could conceivably occur by chance in a panic situation immediately before attack. Thus, my alternate take of the Great Experiment would be that the government reasonably expected such failures in its purely protective vaults, and resolved to catalog the results of said failures if and when possible as a fringe, and entirely accidental, benefit.
 
Sander said:
Ugh. You want to find whole drones of people (several hundreds, if not thousands) and lock them up in all different secluded villages, then feed them false information about a nuclear apocalypse, and then monitor them? Assuming that they aren't going to go out of their way to contact possible surviving family members, or that they'd somehow be willing to go into total seclusion in the first place.
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It's similar to the story of "The Penultimate Truth" written by Philip K. Dick. ( not villages but vaults )
 
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