Things Fallout 76 did right 1#: The Brotherhood of Steel

[Hassknecht]

Dick Richardson openly tells you about the Enclave's desire to exterminate all life other than themselves and the Vaults were only to benefit the Enclave's personnel. It's a longstanding plan. While the Enclave colonizing space has never been canonized, it's also been hinted at in canon.

Dick Richardson lived almost 200 years after the war. The Enclave didn't realy do much before, they mostly weathered out the situation as they assumed that nothing survived.

MODUS actually talks about the Enclave being seperate from the United States government as a cabal. The Whitespring Enclave did actually have a satellite connection to the Oil Rig and communicated with them until it was knocked out. That's when the Secretary of Education declared himself the President, claiming they were dead, and ordered them to start another nuclear war with China. The Joint Chief of Staff refused and was killed by the President, who appointed another he kept drugged up. The Generals wanted to contact the rest of the US military but the President refused until they destroyed China completely.

In the end, it led to a coup against him and MODUS eliminating all of them.

Fallout 2 and onward made it clear that the Enclave post war saw itself as the continuation of the US government. Yes, they were a sort of shadow government, as obviously the US government was not known as "Enclave" to anyone. It's nice that MODUS talks about it that way, but that's Fallout 76 information and the whole thread is about how Fallout 76's information sucks.

The Enclave has done both so it's not like they have any authority or legitimacy remaining. Maxson deserting because of their human experimentation doesn't chaneg these facts.

wat

Except we know he did because he gathered the families and other recruits as well as the Marisposa deserters.

He deserted and contacted the Army, but didn't get any response. Then he ordered the surrounding families to be brought into the interior of the base. It's not like he called out to them to travel the continent.

Incorrect.

Oh, ok.

You can't be a traitor to a government that doesn't survive.

Again, he betrayed the government before it died. He explicitly says so.

Also, Fallout 2 added huge amounts of retcons so retcons by themselves are not bad.

Because Fallout 2 is a much much better game than Fallout 1.

I'd disagree. While many of Fallout 2's retcons are passable due to it being still one of the lore-founding games of the series, retcons are rarely a good thing. And Fallout 2 is barely a better game than Fallout 1, only the RP makes it slightly better.

Maxson created a codex which says they're going to save the world and prevent another apocalypse. You are ignoring lore established in Fallout 1 and 2. They also seized military assets and material (bunkers, power armor, weapons). So, you're making up stuff because of course they will be used.

Nothing in Fallout 1 and 2 mentions a Codex. It was added in Fallout 3, when the BoS went full paladins of the wasteland.
That being said, the Codex doesn't really sound like "saving the world", it actually sounds much more like "save ourselves".
"Give way your suspicions to the wisdom of thine Elder. Where he shows trust, so shall you."
- Sounds like a faggy way of saying "shut up and do what I tell you".
"Shield yourself from those not bound to you by steel, for they are the blind. Aid them when you can, but lose not sight of yourself."
- Fuck the wastelanders. Don't dick them around and help them when you can, but don't waste too many bullets.
"Fear those who do not pledge to the Brotherhood for though their eyes may be opened through service, they are now blind."
- God, can't even say anything about this. I completely forgot how absolutely horrendous Fallout 3 was.
I hate you, Phipps. You made me remember the torrent of excrement that was Fallout 3's writing.

 

[CerberusGate]

Phipps, chill out on the headcanons. I don't think Bethesda needs another person justifying their stupidity with 76. That's Tagz's job. (I think, I doubt he'd try to justify 76 nowadays).

Besides, it's not like all the elements of Van Buren are canonical anyway with NV.

But until indicated otherwise like with Caesar's Legion and the Burned Man, Van Buren will exist as a reference point for Fallout lore.

Writers will refer to Van Buren's contents like they did in NV and use it to suit their needs. So writers will rely on Van Buren and the Fallout Bible (hence Schrodinger's canon kinda applies to Van Buren and the Fallout Bible)

 

[Hassknecht]

Phipps, chill out on the headcanons. I don't think Bethesda needs another person justifying their stupidity with 76. That's Tagz's job. (I think, I doubt he'd try to justify 76 nowadays).

He certainly justifies the BoS in F76.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/9nm67w/state_of_the_lore_brotherhood_of_steel_in_2102/
He did so even before the game was actually released, too, because what Bethesda decides is correct because it's their franchise now.
"I switched from an exclusionist to an inclusionist approach a while back, right around the time I stopped billing myself as a member of a certain Internet forum out of embarrasment, and as such, additions to the lore don't bother me."
He is an enlightened being.

 

[CerberusGate]

Right, I think I remember that post.

right around the time I stopped billing myself as a member of a certain Internet forum out of embarrasment,

But that is a dick move of him to say considering how long he's been a member and an admin here.

I wonder what's his stance now that the collective internet and gaming community have turned against 76.

 

[Hassknecht]

Right, I think I remember that post.


But that is a dick move of him to say considering how long he's been a member and an admin here.

I wonder what's his stance now that the collective internet and gaming community have turned against 76.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fo76/comme...e_because_i_enjoy_it_and_i/eas5kzv/?context=3
He likes Fallout 76 just fine.

 

[CerberusGate]

https://www.reddit.com/r/fo76/comme...e_because_i_enjoy_it_and_i/eas5kzv/?context=3
He likes Fallout 76 just fine.

Wow...

How did he go from being anti-Fallout 3 (iirc, one of the larger anti-Fallout 3 threads was his) to a sycophant for Bethesda's Fallouts? I am aware it started with 4 but I'd imagine anyone reasonable would know how to be critical of a bad instalment to a franchise?

EDIT: At least he's aware of how badly Bethesda is responding everything.

 

[NovaRain]

Time changes and so do people. I guess it's easier for someone to give up.

 

[sesom]

A new job changes people too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/a1hgv3/dont_just_get_angry_change/eaqzadv/

It's interesting that Tagaziel and me ended up on the opposite side.

 

[The Doctor]

Also Maxsons scribes are really evil or total incompetent they didn't warn Elder Lyons about this big dragons in the sky over Appalachia.

A lot of creatures seen shortly after the bombs fell went extinct by the time 3, NY, & 4 take place

200 years later and people still haven't rebuilt society and instead make synthetic gorillas and cows

It boggles the mind

 

[Einhanderc7]

When I read the first couple of posts to this thread the only thing I thought of was a bunch of wasteland slavs sitting around a radio, squatting, getting drunk, dancing to hardbass, and laughing at how terribly dumb the guy on the radio is. While remarking how Cheeki Breeki they think they are, but aren't.

When it comes to an intellectual property, any deviation from the basis of design aka it's "foundation" , severely devalues the overall potential of the property itself. Anyone defending such a short sighted "creative" choice to "better" the core content of an intellectual property is only supporting it's destruction.

Imagine for a moment you write a book, and later sell the IP rights for (name a random reason). Then whomever bought the rights writes a book to turn it into a series, but it doesn't jive well with the original fans, then they go back and rewrite the original book. At that point in time, is it the same intellectual property? NO!

Here's something the average consumer doesn't know, the concept of a brand, and obfuscation of a brand. The're 2 sure fire ways to decimate the integrity an established intellectual property or brand.

1. Deviate from the core material which it is based upon.
2. Throw out the core material which it is based upon.

What happens if someone or some entity such as a business does one of the two above? They genericize the IP/brand to the point that it cannot be legally considered an original work. That means it's no longer subject to the protections of IP law and then becomes public domain.

With the current state of the Fallout brand it would be actually fairly easy for another developer to make their own Fallout game that directly ties to previous Fallout games and get away with it.

How?

BRAND OBFUSCATION!

In IP legal proceedings both parties must establish what the Brand is and their understanding of it, Bethesda couldn't do that to save their lives if they absolutely had to. Why? Because they were the ones that genericized it beyond recognition.

Video games are oddities that reside in grey areas within IP law, however by ruining the integrity of the basis of design for a game's mechanics, narrative, established in universe history, characters, etc... then another developer could argue that Bethesda genericized the brand. Once that happens Bethesda would lose the rights to the IP, and it would then enter the public domain.

Another point to consider is just because someone legally purchased an intellectual property; That the purchase does not give them the right to rewrite the IP's protected content to suit their whims. They may choose to ignore establish content, but they may not rewrite it or lessen the importance of it's details. To do so would damage the protection of the content. The reason behind this is because if the content that made it original is no longer considered part the of the IP, then the protection afforded to the protected content is lost. Thus through obfuscation and brand genericization a once legally protected creative work enters the public domain.

TLDR: Bethesda's radio garbage is a dumpster fire and the Bethesda fans need to stop drinking the cool-aid, I'm pretty sure it's laced with mercury, lead, or some other terribly toxic element.

 

[Big No]

You know what the scariest thing is? The thread title says 1#, implying CT Phipps has more good things to talk about in the future.

 

[Hassknecht]

You know what the scariest thing is? The thread title says 1#, implying CT Phipps has more good things to talk about in the future.

He's currently at number 2. Survival elements, you know, the big current trend of game mechanics that are hard to fuck up even for Bethesda.

 

[Einhanderc7]

Fallout 76 has survival elements?! Could someone elaborate on the mechanics applied?

 

[mithrap]

I have no idea what your objection is. Especially since we have the BOS communicating with the Eastern and Western branches in both F3 and Fallout 4. Mind you, you have to be crazy to think you can't communicate cross country with radios.

Yes, but that's another problem per se. If the western brotherhood could be in touch with the eastern via radio :

-How come the western brotherhood never came into contact with the midwest brotherhood ? We know they still exist (and if satellite communications were possible, you can bet they would have found a way. They have the freaking calculator...)
-Why Lyons wasn't immediately called back at the moment the council of elders realized that the NCR would defeat them ?
-How can they even maintain radio contact ? It would take a functional radio tower every 45 miles or so, over the entire continent, accross enemy territory ?
-Why would the council of elders (if it still exists) lose time over the appointment of a foreign elder, considering that they are currently under siege in their very last bunkers ?
-How could the brotherhood maintain contact over an entire continent while the NCR doesn't even know what's east of their own territory ? They had to send scouts to discover the dam and hear about the legion.

At least, the outcasts mention that radio contact was lost (obviously), but there should have never been any kind of radio contact at all.

 

[Hassknecht]

Radio contact is via satellite, so no radio towers necessary. Also, technically, you could use shortwave radio and bounce off the ionosphere to directly communicate from one coast to the other.

 

[BigGuyCIA]

Is it really something they did right? On a surface level the explanation they give: "BoS communicated with other military groups via radio 3 days before the nukes dropped to gather support," makes sense... but only in a vacuum. It creates more gaping holes because Fallout 3's expedition just skipped right over that chapter which was, quite literally, right next door to them.

Consider the following:

• They established contact with the Chicago brotherhood in 3, and managed to bring them into the fold in 4. No mention of the Appalachian chapter in either game.
• No attempt to check on the Appalachian chapter in a territory that has a documented stockpile of nuclear armaments.

So, effectively, they decide that effort is better spent negotiating with the rogue chapter in Chicago over the Appalachian chapter sitting on a nuclear stockpile.

Ok.

 

[mithrap]

No attempt to check on the Appalachian chapter in a territory that has a documented stockpile of nuclear armaments.
So, effectively, they decide that effort is better spent negotiating with the rogue chapter in Chicago over the Appalachian chapter sitting on a nuclear stockpile.

Ok.

More than stockpile of nuclear armaments, actually. These are silos with nuclear missiles that actually build themselves, over, and over, and over. Which means that any faction that can claim the Appalachian just... wins.
Just imagine if the Enclave took control over it, or Mr.House, or the Brotherhood of Steel (Let's not forget that the midwest BoS isn't afraid to use nuclear arsenal...), or hell, Caesar's Legion (not that they'd use it, but just imagine). They'd become autonomous nuclear superpowers and nobody would even dare messing with them anymore. They'd have absolute security, total military domination and more than that, energy autonomy. These things are basically G.E.C.K.s on steroids, apparently.

Instead of securing that VERY dangerous technology -which would be the equivalent of a litteral gate to hell for the Brotherhood- they decide to protect a DJ and a water filter which nobody needs. And they can't even find another chapter, despite crossing their lands and cities for hundreds of miles.

 

[BigGuyCIA]

These are silos with nuclear missiles that actually build themselves, over, and over, and over.

That makes it even worse. What in the world is going on with this franchise.

 

[Norzan]

Bethesda is what's going on. This is now my reaction to every lore change Bethesda introduces.

 

[Valwin]

I will be on record that the BOS should have been nowhere near this game.

The idea presented in-game while possible only makes more questions

Why would someone follow this clown calling themselves knights?

I'm not saying is not possible but it makes you wonder.

Why did Lyons know nothing about it? Note the that F3 BOS actually acknowledges the midwestern BOS.

Another thing F04 never mentions then? you would think that BOS would check on that area now that the can fly around and stuff,

That's the issue with setting games before others ones it only creates more questions.

Don't get me wrong they give you a possible reason of to why in a way it does not mess up the set events in F1 and F2.

I guess the Scorge was a joke to the western BOS seen how the did not care.


Now a faction that the F76 did right was the Enclave